MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

WolfPack86

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Tensions With China Over Ladakh Expose India’s Urgent Need for MiG-35 Next Generation Fighters
Tensions over the Sino-Indian border in the Ladakh region, which escalated in mid-June with a clash on the ground that caused over 150 Indian casualties, have highlighted the value of the Indian Air Force’s MiG-29 medium weight fighters for operations in the region. India’s armed forces currently have over 170 MiG-29 fighters either in service or on order, the bulk of which serve in the Air Force around 45 in the Navy. The country was the first export client in the world for the twin engine multirole jets, with the first order placed in 1982, and the fleet has since been modernised to the MiG-29UPG standard - or in the case of naval jets they already operate at the similar MiG-29K standard. Although the fighter is overall less formidable than the heavier Su-30MKI, and has several disadvantages in terms of sensors and electronics relative to the newer Rafale jets, the MiG-29 is highly prized for operations in the mountainous border region for a number of reasons. The MiG is optimised for operations at high altitude, and has a much higher speed and flight ceiling than the Rafale, while its high thrust-weight ratio and climb rates and ability to deploy from smaller airfields gives it an advantage over the Su-30.

Indian MiG-29 Medium Fighter

The MiG-29’s now proven value for a frontier standoff in India’s northern border is thought to be a leading reason why the Air Force very quickly moved to order 21 more of the jets from Russia, and to invest in modernising more of the older airframes to the MiG-29UPG standard. Despite its formidable capabilities, benefitting from active radar guided long range missiles and a flight performance with few rivals, even in upgraded form the MiG-29’s age is increasingly becoming an issue as neighbouring China moves to rely more heavily on ‘4++’ and fifth generation fighters to form its frontline units. Although, fortunately for India, China newest fighters the J-20 and J-10C have not been deployed near the Indian border or anywhere under the Western Theatre Command, China has deployed the J-16 heavyweight platform to the region. The fighter retains very considerable performance advantages over India’s Su-30MKI and Rafale - leaving the MiG-29 outmatched by a considerable margin. The J-16 technologically is far ahead of the MiG in all parameters, from its AESA radar guided PL-15 missiles which have over double the range of the passive radar guided missiles Indian relies on, to its stealth coatings and sensor suite. The MiG-29’s inability to contend with newer Chinese jets, precisely the types of jets it is deployed on the frontier to counter, has left the Indian Air Force in a difficult position.

Chinese J-16 Heavyweight Fighter

To provide a more capable medium weight fighter, the Indian Air Force has seriously considered acquiring the MiG-35 ‘4++ generation’ jet from Russia - an aircraft which if purchased would close the technological gap with China’s newest frontline aircraft. The MiG-35 was considered the leading contender in the MMRCA competition before its cancellation, and the Indian Air Force is reportedly seriously considering acquiring the jets in future once the design further matures after more years in service in the Russian Air Force. The fighter is the newest in Russia’s inventory, entering service in June 2019, and integrates a range of new technologies including artificial intelligence and the first AESA radar on a Russian fighter. Among its advanced features are three dimensional thrust vectoring engines - the only medium fighter in the world to integrate them, state of the art avionics and electronic warfare systems, and access to a range of new missile types including the very long ranged R-37M which has a longer range and is faster than China’s PL-15.

Following the Galwan Valley standoff in the Ladakh region in June, a MiG-35 acquisition appears particularly urgent since the fighter is ideally suited to replacing the MiG-29 in frontline airbases near the Chinese borders. The fighter's similarities to the MiG-29 make it well suited for short airfields and high altitude operations, but it will enjoy far superior situational awareness key to monitoring potential threats. The MiG-35 can also make use of much of the same maintenance infrastructure as the MiG-29, and pilot conversion training requirements will be minimal due to their similarity. In the long term the fighter may also be less costly, as their operational costs are reportedly 80% lower than the older jets due to very low maintenance requirements. Lower maintenance could serve as an effective force multiplier by providing Indian frontline units with a much higher availability rate. Russia has offered to provide India with support and a license to manufacture the MiG-35 domestically, much as it did for the MiG-27 and Su-30, which could lead to a very large scale or production and an acquisition of 150-200 fighters.

MiG-35 Next Generation Medium Weight Fighters

The MiG-35’s combination of low operational costs and very advanced capabilities makes it an ideal choice for large scale acquisitions, particularly given how new the design is which means there will be significant room for modernisation throughout its lifespan. The fighter's combat capabilities notably compare favourably to other new aircraft from the medium and low weight ranges such as the F-35A, Rafale and J-10C. With the Indian Air Force looking to add ten new fighter squadrons to its fleet, the MiG-35 could be an ideal choice - although a preliminary order preceding domestic production to more quickly reinforce the Ladakh region may be decided on sooner. Unlike the MiG-29, the MiG-35 will not face a technological disadvantage if forced to go head to head with the elite of the Chinese fleet in Ladakh, and this alone could make it a very worthwhile investment given the region’s pressing importance to Indian security.
 

Dessert Storm

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Tensions With China Over Ladakh Expose India’s Urgent Need for MiG-35 Next Generation Fighters
Tensions over the Sino-Indian border in the Ladakh region, which escalated in mid-June with a clash on the ground that caused over 150 Indian casualties, have highlighted the value of the Indian Air Force’s MiG-29 medium weight fighters for operations in the region. India’s armed forces currently have over 170 MiG-29 fighters either in service or on order, the bulk of which serve in the Air Force around 45 in the Navy. The country was the first export client in the world for the twin engine multirole jets, with the first order placed in 1982, and the fleet has since been modernised to the MiG-29UPG standard - or in the case of naval jets they already operate at the similar MiG-29K standard. Although the fighter is overall less formidable than the heavier Su-30MKI, and has several disadvantages in terms of sensors and electronics relative to the newer Rafale jets, the MiG-29 is highly prized for operations in the mountainous border region for a number of reasons. The MiG is optimised for operations at high altitude, and has a much higher speed and flight ceiling than the Rafale, while its high thrust-weight ratio and climb rates and ability to deploy from smaller airfields gives it an advantage over the Su-30.

Indian MiG-29 Medium Fighter

The MiG-29’s now proven value for a frontier standoff in India’s northern border is thought to be a leading reason why the Air Force very quickly moved to order 21 more of the jets from Russia, and to invest in modernising more of the older airframes to the MiG-29UPG standard. Despite its formidable capabilities, benefitting from active radar guided long range missiles and a flight performance with few rivals, even in upgraded form the MiG-29’s age is increasingly becoming an issue as neighbouring China moves to rely more heavily on ‘4++’ and fifth generation fighters to form its frontline units. Although, fortunately for India, China newest fighters the J-20 and J-10C have not been deployed near the Indian border or anywhere under the Western Theatre Command, China has deployed the J-16 heavyweight platform to the region. The fighter retains very considerable performance advantages over India’s Su-30MKI and Rafale - leaving the MiG-29 outmatched by a considerable margin. The J-16 technologically is far ahead of the MiG in all parameters, from its AESA radar guided PL-15 missiles which have over double the range of the passive radar guided missiles Indian relies on, to its stealth coatings and sensor suite. The MiG-29’s inability to contend with newer Chinese jets, precisely the types of jets it is deployed on the frontier to counter, has left the Indian Air Force in a difficult position.

Chinese J-16 Heavyweight Fighter

To provide a more capable medium weight fighter, the Indian Air Force has seriously considered acquiring the MiG-35 ‘4++ generation’ jet from Russia - an aircraft which if purchased would close the technological gap with China’s newest frontline aircraft. The MiG-35 was considered the leading contender in the MMRCA competition before its cancellation, and the Indian Air Force is reportedly seriously considering acquiring the jets in future once the design further matures after more years in service in the Russian Air Force. The fighter is the newest in Russia’s inventory, entering service in June 2019, and integrates a range of new technologies including artificial intelligence and the first AESA radar on a Russian fighter. Among its advanced features are three dimensional thrust vectoring engines - the only medium fighter in the world to integrate them, state of the art avionics and electronic warfare systems, and access to a range of new missile types including the very long ranged R-37M which has a longer range and is faster than China’s PL-15.

Following the Galwan Valley standoff in the Ladakh region in June, a MiG-35 acquisition appears particularly urgent since the fighter is ideally suited to replacing the MiG-29 in frontline airbases near the Chinese borders. The fighter's similarities to the MiG-29 make it well suited for short airfields and high altitude operations, but it will enjoy far superior situational awareness key to monitoring potential threats. The MiG-35 can also make use of much of the same maintenance infrastructure as the MiG-29, and pilot conversion training requirements will be minimal due to their similarity. In the long term the fighter may also be less costly, as their operational costs are reportedly 80% lower than the older jets due to very low maintenance requirements. Lower maintenance could serve as an effective force multiplier by providing Indian frontline units with a much higher availability rate. Russia has offered to provide India with support and a license to manufacture the MiG-35 domestically, much as it did for the MiG-27 and Su-30, which could lead to a very large scale or production and an acquisition of 150-200 fighters.

MiG-35 Next Generation Medium Weight Fighters

The MiG-35’s combination of low operational costs and very advanced capabilities makes it an ideal choice for large scale acquisitions, particularly given how new the design is which means there will be significant room for modernisation throughout its lifespan. The fighter's combat capabilities notably compare favourably to other new aircraft from the medium and low weight ranges such as the F-35A, Rafale and J-10C. With the Indian Air Force looking to add ten new fighter squadrons to its fleet, the MiG-35 could be an ideal choice - although a preliminary order preceding domestic production to more quickly reinforce the Ladakh region may be decided on sooner. Unlike the MiG-29, the MiG-35 will not face a technological disadvantage if forced to go head to head with the elite of the Chinese fleet in Ladakh, and this alone could make it a very worthwhile investment given the region’s pressing importance to Indian security.
Can't the following happen:
1. MRCA cancelled.
2. IAF goes with G2G for 3-4 squadron of an aircraft.
3. IAF purchases 45 Mig 29s from Navy, and get them modified for AF.
4. Navy purchases a single fighter model to be operated from both ACs.
 

Knowitall

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Tensions With China Over Ladakh Expose India’s Urgent Need for MiG-35 Next Generation Fighters
Tensions over the Sino-Indian border in the Ladakh region, which escalated in mid-June with a clash on the ground that caused over 150 Indian casualties, have highlighted the value of the Indian Air Force’s MiG-29 medium weight fighters for operations in the region. India’s armed forces currently have over 170 MiG-29 fighters either in service or on order, the bulk of which serve in the Air Force around 45 in the Navy. The country was the first export client in the world for the twin engine multirole jets, with the first order placed in 1982, and the fleet has since been modernised to the MiG-29UPG standard - or in the case of naval jets they already operate at the similar MiG-29K standard. Although the fighter is overall less formidable than the heavier Su-30MKI, and has several disadvantages in terms of sensors and electronics relative to the newer Rafale jets, the MiG-29 is highly prized for operations in the mountainous border region for a number of reasons. The MiG is optimised for operations at high altitude, and has a much higher speed and flight ceiling than the Rafale, while its high thrust-weight ratio and climb rates and ability to deploy from smaller airfields gives it an advantage over the Su-30.

Indian MiG-29 Medium Fighter

The MiG-29’s now proven value for a frontier standoff in India’s northern border is thought to be a leading reason why the Air Force very quickly moved to order 21 more of the jets from Russia, and to invest in modernising more of the older airframes to the MiG-29UPG standard. Despite its formidable capabilities, benefitting from active radar guided long range missiles and a flight performance with few rivals, even in upgraded form the MiG-29’s age is increasingly becoming an issue as neighbouring China moves to rely more heavily on ‘4++’ and fifth generation fighters to form its frontline units. Although, fortunately for India, China newest fighters the J-20 and J-10C have not been deployed near the Indian border or anywhere under the Western Theatre Command, China has deployed the J-16 heavyweight platform to the region. The fighter retains very considerable performance advantages over India’s Su-30MKI and Rafale - leaving the MiG-29 outmatched by a considerable margin. The J-16 technologically is far ahead of the MiG in all parameters, from its AESA radar guided PL-15 missiles which have over double the range of the passive radar guided missiles Indian relies on, to its stealth coatings and sensor suite. The MiG-29’s inability to contend with newer Chinese jets, precisely the types of jets it is deployed on the frontier to counter, has left the Indian Air Force in a difficult position.

Chinese J-16 Heavyweight Fighter

To provide a more capable medium weight fighter, the Indian Air Force has seriously considered acquiring the MiG-35 ‘4++ generation’ jet from Russia - an aircraft which if purchased would close the technological gap with China’s newest frontline aircraft. The MiG-35 was considered the leading contender in the MMRCA competition before its cancellation, and the Indian Air Force is reportedly seriously considering acquiring the jets in future once the design further matures after more years in service in the Russian Air Force. The fighter is the newest in Russia’s inventory, entering service in June 2019, and integrates a range of new technologies including artificial intelligence and the first AESA radar on a Russian fighter. Among its advanced features are three dimensional thrust vectoring engines - the only medium fighter in the world to integrate them, state of the art avionics and electronic warfare systems, and access to a range of new missile types including the very long ranged R-37M which has a longer range and is faster than China’s PL-15.

Following the Galwan Valley standoff in the Ladakh region in June, a MiG-35 acquisition appears particularly urgent since the fighter is ideally suited to replacing the MiG-29 in frontline airbases near the Chinese borders. The fighter's similarities to the MiG-29 make it well suited for short airfields and high altitude operations, but it will enjoy far superior situational awareness key to monitoring potential threats. The MiG-35 can also make use of much of the same maintenance infrastructure as the MiG-29, and pilot conversion training requirements will be minimal due to their similarity. In the long term the fighter may also be less costly, as their operational costs are reportedly 80% lower than the older jets due to very low maintenance requirements. Lower maintenance could serve as an effective force multiplier by providing Indian frontline units with a much higher availability rate. Russia has offered to provide India with support and a license to manufacture the MiG-35 domestically, much as it did for the MiG-27 and Su-30, which could lead to a very large scale or production and an acquisition of 150-200 fighters.

MiG-35 Next Generation Medium Weight Fighters

The MiG-35’s combination of low operational costs and very advanced capabilities makes it an ideal choice for large scale acquisitions, particularly given how new the design is which means there will be significant room for modernisation throughout its lifespan. The fighter's combat capabilities notably compare favourably to other new aircraft from the medium and low weight ranges such as the F-35A, Rafale and J-10C. With the Indian Air Force looking to add ten new fighter squadrons to its fleet, the MiG-35 could be an ideal choice - although a preliminary order preceding domestic production to more quickly reinforce the Ladakh region may be decided on sooner. Unlike the MiG-29, the MiG-35 will not face a technological disadvantage if forced to go head to head with the elite of the Chinese fleet in Ladakh, and this alone could make it a very worthwhile investment given the region’s pressing importance to Indian security.
This only exposes that we must stay away from russian maal or else our DM will have to run around asking for spares.
 

BON PLAN

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I think the primary reason for picking the Rafale was as a nuke delivery platform. The IAF needed a nuke delivery aircraft that could replace the Mirage 2000. The ability of the Mirage 2000, a 35 year old aircraft, to penetrate even Pakistan air space was in doubt in the years ahead, even Balakot was a very shallow penetration. And the willingness of France to enable the hard wiring needed for nuke delivery was the deciding factor. The fact that the long range Meteor AAM was going to be integrated shortly was a bonus. The big, big downside is the cost of the aircraft and the cost of all French munitions. And that is why now that 36 Rafale have taken care of the nuke delivery role, the IAF will do a cost benefit analysis of the options on the table for the 114 MRFA. Do they go for more Rafale with another 114 being cheaper than the original batch of 36, on a per aircraft basis, but will almost certainly be still more expensive than any of the other fighters which are competing. Or they do go for a completely new type of aircraft such as a US offering, which will be definitely cheaper both in terms of the aircraft and munitions, but which will entail a whole new platform system to be integrated into the IAF. One other factor which I think is important is that the IAF currently does not have a modern version of a fighter which can also perform a credible strike role. After the Mig 27s have retired and while the Jaguars have been upgraded, the weak engine of the Jaguar is still a huge liability, the IAF has been left without a cost effective strike function. Not necessarily a CAS role, but a more modern interpretation of the strike role.
The last international sales show that Rafale is not more costly than F15 or EF2000.
Once India paid for extra capacity (needed for any other competitor), the price is in the market.

India have a long experience with the Dassault birds. M2000, even after 35 years remains an Indian asset. It will be the same with Rafale, and IAF and Indian top brass are perfectly aware of that.

Russian products are not reliable enough
US products are nice but the political support is not stable and trustable
EF2000 is not verstile enough
Rafale is the best solution, specially after a first purchase.
 

LDev

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Russian products are not reliable enough
US products are nice but the political support is not stable and trustable
EF2000 is not verstile enough
Rafale is the best solution, specially after a first purchase.
Russian products are not reliable enough - Agree

US products are nice but the political support is not stable and trustable - Agree

EF2000 is not verstile enough- For now and it has the baggage of a multi country sign off.

Rafale is the best solution, specially after a first purchase. - As of today, yes.

The issue is whether the recent intense security dialogue between the US and India will overcome the trust and stability issues. That is the big IF.
 

abingdonboy

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And they should have never picked Rafale in the first place if it's just abt cost factor because they knew it from the beginning that it will cost a bomb.
I don't know where you guys get these ideas from, there's no metric to justify this expensive tag that the Rafale has been straddled with. I think this is just LM/Boeing smear tactics, probably SAAB too.

They tried to make out the per hour cost of the Rafale was atrociously high but this has been thoroughly refuted

And the off the shelf cost of the Rafale is also not substantially different to what the latest F-18s and F-16s are sold for, look up the RAAF's last F-18 SH deal and extrapolate costs, similarly the Bulgarian deal for the F-16 blk.70.

Now factor in the Rafale has had $2BN worth of customer nominated equipment (ISE) added onto it for IAF service, assume a similar (if not more) fixed cost added on top of any imaginary F-16/15/18/35 deal for the IAF under MRFA along with additional ones such as basing, training, infrastructure creation, weapons, spares etc etc (all of which will not be incurred with follow-on Rafale purchases) and the Rafale doesn't seem like such a costly option anymore does it?

Just for a good laugh I'd love to see what Boeing's reaction would be to the IAF asking them to integrate the METEOR on the F-15/18 for the IAF, either they will flat out say no or ask for many $100s of millions to do so. Remember what issues India has had getting Russian consent to integrate third party weapons on the MKIs, the Israelis wouldn't even allow the METEOR to be integrated with the EL/M-2052.
 

Trololo

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Russian products are not reliable enough - Agree

US products are nice but the political support is not stable and trustable - Agree

EF2000 is not verstile enough- For now and it has the baggage of a multi country sign off.

Rafale is the best solution, specially after a first purchase. - As of today, yes.

The issue is whether the recent intense security dialogue between the US and India will overcome the trust and stability issues. That is the big IF.
Probably to some extent. And we should use it to our advantage. From a strategic point of view India is needed now to deal with China. Later India will be a competitor. If thinking long term then our best purchases from the US should be support platforms, ELINT, COMINT, and other electronics, sensor, and aviation packages etc. C-17, C-130, Apaches, Chinooks, P8s etc are very good buys indeed. But Frontline combat platforms should be non US, and ideally domestic. With full IP ownership of the platform and critical subsystems.
 

LDev

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the Israelis wouldn't even allow the METEOR to be integrated with the EL/M-2052.
Actually it was MBDA, the manufacturer of the Meteor which did not allow the missile to be integrated with a radar which was on it's approved list which is restricted as of now to Thales (Rafale), Leonardo(Grippen and EF) and Northrop Grumman for the F-35. MBDA was willing to proceed if the radar was substantially Indian i.e. Uttam will qualify. But not an Israeli radar.
 

abingdonboy

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Actually it was MBDA, the manufacturer of the Meteor which did not allow the missile to be integrated with a radar which was on it's approved list which is restricted as of now to Thales (Rafale), Leonardo(Grippen and EF) and Northrop Grumman for the F-35. MBDA was willing to proceed if the radar was substantially Indian i.e. Uttam will qualify. But not an Israeli radar.
Yeah that rings a bell, either way my point stands. When dealing with foreign OEMs integration of third party equipment is not only horrifically costly but often geostrategically impossible.


I remember the Americans wouldn't allow ELTA to offer an AESAR for the Gripen under MMRCA because it would be a competitor to the American jets in the race.

As you've pointed out- the only alternative long term solution is indigenous systems.
 

Flying Dagger

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I don't know where you guys get these ideas from, there's no metric to justify this expensive tag that the Rafale has been straddled with. I think this is just LM/Boeing smear tactics, probably SAAB too.

They tried to make out the per hour cost of the Rafale was atrociously high but this has been thoroughly refuted

And the off the shelf cost of the Rafale is also not substantially different to what the latest F-18s and F-16s are sold for, look up the RAAF's last F-18 SH deal and extrapolate costs, similarly the Bulgarian deal for the F-16 blk.70.

Now factor in the Rafale has had $2BN worth of customer nominated equipment (ISE) added onto it for IAF service, assume a similar (if not more) fixed cost added on top of any imaginary F-16/15/18/35 deal for the IAF under MRFA along with additional ones such as basing, training, infrastructure creation, weapons, spares etc etc (all of which will not be incurred with follow-on Rafale purchases) and the Rafale doesn't seem like such a costly option anymore does it?

Just for a good laugh I'd love to see what Boeing's reaction would be to the IAF asking them to integrate the METEOR on the F-15/18 for the IAF, either they will flat out say no or ask for many $100s of millions to do so. Remember what issues India has had getting Russian consent to integrate third party weapons on the MKIs, the Israelis wouldn't even allow the METEOR to be integrated with the EL/M-2052.
Before you jump in read and don't come up with misleading stuff.

Rafale cost is significantly higher that's why they lost in Brazil and SA to Gripen.

Israel didn't allowed Meteor ?

Meteor not available for American fighter jets ?

Those all are misleading false assumption.


Yeah that rings a bell, either way my point stands. When dealing with foreign OEMs integration of third party equipment is not only horrifically costly but often geostrategically impossible.


I remember the Americans wouldn't allow ELTA to offer an AESAR for the Gripen under MMRCA because it would be a competitor to the American jets in the race.

As you've pointed out- the only alternative long term solution is indigenous systems.
No your post didn't made any sense to either my post nor your point stands anywhere around.

I said Rafale costed a bomb to us and now you are saying on similar line.

Yes we know Indigenization is the way but requirements need to be fulfilled until then from Import.
 
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no smoking

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The last international sales show that Rafale is not more costly than F15 or EF2000.
The purchasing cost of French jet is not very high, but maintenance and operation cost are super expensive.
Don't know about Rafale, but according to Taiwanese, the these cost of M2000 are 3 times of F-16.
 

FalconSlayers

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Actually it was MBDA, the manufacturer of the Meteor which did not allow the missile to be integrated with a radar which was on it's approved list which is restricted as of now to Thales (Rafale), Leonardo(Grippen and EF) and Northrop Grumman for the F-35. MBDA was willing to proceed if the radar was substantially Indian i.e. Uttam will qualify. But not an Israeli radar.
Because Israeli radar belongs to Israel, so involving another country would be a nightmare for both IAF and MBDA for meteor integration in Elta radar of IAF.
 

Dessert Storm

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The purchasing cost of French jet is not very high, but maintenance and operation cost are super expensive.
Don't know about Rafale, but according to Taiwanese, the these cost of M2000 are 3 times of F-16.
Indians compare the cost of maintenance (and availability) vis a vis Russian platforms.
French platforms afford you strategic independence. Probably this is what makes GOI go for French ones.
 

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The purchasing cost of French jet is not very high, but maintenance and operation cost are super expensive.
Don't know about Rafale, but according to Taiwanese, the these cost of M2000 are 3 times of F-16.
It's mainly a old news.
The Taiwanese didn't clean properly their M2000 (salt atmosphere) at the beginning. It cost them a lot.

But fact remains that the spares parts for a 600 units fleet is more costly than a 4500 units one...
 

BON PLAN

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Rafale cost is significantly higher that's why they lost in Brazil and SA to Gripen.
Just impossible to compare a light single engine short legs fighter with a dual engine medium weight and long range one!
Brazil is in peace with all the neighbors.... No need of a first class jet.
SA neighbors are so weak.... same situation. Gripen is more than enough then.

Just remember the 2011 swiss field test : Gripen perfs were as its price : lower.
 

FalconSlayers

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Just impossible to compare a light single engine short legs fighter with a dual engine medium weight and long range one!
Brazil is in peace with all the neighbors.... No need of a first class jet.
SA neighbors are so weak.... same situation. Gripen is more than enough then.

Just remember the 2011 swiss field test : Gripen perfs were as its price : lower.
Rafale is currently the most advance and the best 4++ gen aircraft in the world along with F/A-18E Super Hornet Block-III, so justifies the cost.
 

Synergy

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this time it's gonna be Super Eagle. with probably 36 more Rafales.
some reports are suggesting US has vouched for SH and/or Viper in 2+2 but we have shown interest in SE.

the reason for my excitement is we will get 36 SEs in a year if we go for that. so within 2/3 years the order will be delivered.
 

no smoking

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Indians compare the cost of maintenance (and availability) vis a vis Russian platforms.
But on the other hand, Russian platforms require much less low level of staffs' skills and equipment in maintenance, they are much more suitable for developing countries.

French platforms afford you strategic independence. Probably this is what makes GOI go for French ones.
Really? What kind of strategic independence?
Technic? How many Russian jets and engines are being built by Indians domestically? Or does Russia put any restriction on her weapons sold to India?
 

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