MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Wisemarko]

Taiwan, despite it following every diktat from DC still didn't get the F-21

F-21 is india specific version involving Indian systems on F-16. Taiwan gets the most advanced F-16 block 70 version. There is no better F-16 than that.

 

[MonaLazy]

F-21 vs F-16 block 70 version

Is Made-for-India Lockheed Martin F-21 Fighter Jet Better Than Pakistan Air Force's F-16 Plane?

Lockheed Martin will manufacture the F-21 fighter jets exclusively for the Indian Air Force in partnership with Tata Group, if awarded the contract.

www.news18.com

Is F-21 similar to F-16?

On observation that the F-21 is similar to Lockheed's F-16 Block 70 combat jet, he said such a view is unfair as there have been significant differences between the two platforms. F-21 is different in terms of various aspects including its airframe, weapons capability, engine matrix and availability of engine options.

"As for example, you are now looking at 12,000 hours of service life airframe in F-21 versus 8,000 hours previously (F-16 Block 70). The additional 40 per cent weapons carrying capability is new in F-21 which was not there in F-16 Block 70. The electronic warfare system is uniquely developed for India," he added.

"Looking from a distance may make it look similar to F-16 Block 70, but it is different," he added. Besides having a traditional boom-delivered refuelling facility, the F-21 also has an extendable hose-and-drogue refuelling probe.

"This is the only fighter in the world which has both the capability," said Lall, adding the cockpit has a new large area display. "It is a modern cockpit and has a significant piece of ability to synthesise information. These are unique capabilities that we are not offering to other countries in the world," said the Lockheed executive.

The jet has a Long-Range Infrared Search and Track (IRST), enabling pilots to detect threats with precision and Triple Missile Launcher Adapters (TMLAs) allowing it to carry 40 per cent more air-to-air weapons.

 

[lcafanboy]

Gripen coming on April 1st..

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Gripen coming on April 1st..

ye MMRCA or MRFA ka drama sayad 2004 se chal raha hai,,, meri taraf se to ab ye kuch bhi le le. coz infront of chinese we r losing both quality nd quantity. atleast humare pass itne fighters to ho, jo chinese ko acha khasa loss pahucha sake. coz ek point ke baad nuclear bomb involve ho jayega, agr full scale war huwi to.

 

[WolfPack86]

AON for 114 MRFA.

 

[BON PLAN]

Is Made-for-India Lockheed Martin F-21 Fighter Jet Better Than Pakistan Air Force's F-16 Plane?

Lockheed Martin will manufacture the F-21 fighter jets exclusively for the Indian Air Force in partnership with Tata Group, if awarded the contract.

www.news18.com

Is F-21 similar to F-16?

On observation that the F-21 is similar to Lockheed's F-16 Block 70 combat jet, he said such a view is unfair as there have been significant differences between the two platforms. F-21 is different in terms of various aspects including its airframe, weapons capability, engine matrix and availability of engine options.

"As for example, you are now looking at 12,000 hours of service life airframe in F-21 versus 8,000 hours previously (F-16 Block 70). The additional 40 per cent weapons carrying capability is new in F-21 which was not there in F-16 Block 70. The electronic warfare system is uniquely developed for India," he added.

"Looking from a distance may make it look similar to F-16 Block 70, but it is different," he added. Besides having a traditional boom-delivered refuelling facility, the F-21 also has an extendable hose-and-drogue refuelling probe.

"This is the only fighter in the world which has both the capability," said Lall, adding the cockpit has a new large area display. "It is a modern cockpit and has a significant piece of ability to synthesise information. These are unique capabilities that we are not offering to other countries in the world," said the Lockheed executive.

The jet has a Long-Range Infrared Search and Track (IRST), enabling pilots to detect threats with precision and Triple Missile Launcher Adapters (TMLAs) allowing it to carry 40 per cent more air-to-air weapons.

The weakness of F16 is always the same since it evolves : the wings are the same since first block, and made for a pure air to air light jet. If you increase the load you increase angle of attack, so drag. Only possible with a bigger engine, consumming more fuel with the same fuel capacity : vicious circle.

The real good answer may have been the agile Falcon, with 20 or 30% more enlarged wings. Too late now.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

The weakness of F16 is always the same since it evolves : the wings are the same since first block, and made for a pure air to air light jet. If you increase the load you increase angle of attack, so drag. Only possible with a bigger engine, consumming more fuel with the same fuel capacity : vicious circle.

The real good answer may have been the agile Falcon, with 20 or 30% more enlarged wings. Too late now.

The F-16XL was a promising program, axed because of the increased cost of production and the F-15E winning the ETF program. The design had 25-30% less drag and could carry twice the payload of the F-16A with reduced penalty.

 

[BON PLAN]

The F-16XL was a promising program, axed because of the increased cost of production and the F-15E winning the ETF program. The design had 25-30% less drag and could carry twice the payload of the F-16A with reduced penalty.
View attachment 199313
View attachment 199314

Indeed. I forget this one. It was a beautifull bird.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

MRFA was clearly not convoluted enough. We need a bigger pile.

The US’ decision to send four F-15E Eagles for Cope India 2023 is being seen by many as an effort to convince India that this Boeing-built twin-engine fighter jet is the best option available in the market.

The US government has granted permission to Boeing to sell F-15 jets to India. Not only the F-15Es, even the superior F-15EXs are on offer, a source said. After acquiring 36 Rafales from France, India is on the lookout for several more Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) to fill the existing gap between the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas and the much heavier Su-30 MKI.

“Four F-15Es from the Pacific Air Command of the United States Air Force (USAF) have been participating in joint exercises with Rafales, Tejas, Jaguars and Su-30 MKIs of the Indian Air Force (IAF) at the Kalaikunda Air Force Station. The idea is for IAF pilots to check how compatible the aircraft is as an MMRCA.

“The IAF has never used US-made fighter jets though it has acquired strategic transport aircraft like the C-130Js and C-17s as well as helicopters like Apaches and Chinooks. Though the F-15Es are not as robust and sophisticated as the F-15EXs, the basics are the same,” the source added.

A former IAF official said that Cope India 2023 is being held at a time when India is concerned with China’s military build-up along the Line of Actual Control (LAC). Though the US and Boeing claim that the F-15EX Eagle-II can counter any threat from China, several rounds of trials will be required, he said.

Any MMRCA that the IAF procures has to operate in extreme weather conditions, whether in temperatures ranging around 40-degree Celsius in the Western Sector, or the sub-zero climes of the Himalayas.

Boeing maintains that the Eagle-II is much larger than the Rafale and has a take-off load carrying capacity that nearly equals that of the Su-30MKI. The aircraft can carry up to 22 missiles, including hypersonic ones. It can also counter any threat from Chinese-built hypersonic missiles. It’s fuel tanks also give it an extended range.

The F-15EX has only been inducted into the USAF recently. The aircraft is in the wishlist of several countries, the US claims.

While exercises are fine, officials in India are skeptical about making any commitment and will weigh all the options first, including the indigenous twin-engine Tejas that is being developed.

On Monday, officials at AFS Kalaikunda said that all the aircraft involved in the exercise have flown extensively.

“Multiple missions were flown to enhance Within Visual Range and Beyond Visual Range combat deployment philosophy in large force package,” an official said.

Though there was no specific mention of China, an US official said that both India and the US are keen on maintaining a peaceful Indo-Pacific region.

 

[BON PLAN]

MRFA was clearly not convoluted enough. We need a bigger pile.
View attachment 201830
The US’ decision to send four F-15E Eagles for Cope India 2023 is being seen by many as an effort to convince India that this Boeing-built twin-engine fighter jet is the best option available in the market.

The US government has granted permission to Boeing to sell F-15 jets to India. Not only the F-15Es, even the superior F-15EXs are on offer, a source said. After acquiring 36 Rafales from France, India is on the lookout for several more Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) to fill the existing gap between the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas and the much heavier Su-30 MKI.

“Four F-15Es from the Pacific Air Command of the United States Air Force (USAF) have been participating in joint exercises with Rafales, Tejas, Jaguars and Su-30 MKIs of the Indian Air Force (IAF) at the Kalaikunda Air Force Station. The idea is for IAF pilots to check how compatible the aircraft is as an MMRCA.

“The IAF has never used US-made fighter jets though it has acquired strategic transport aircraft like the C-130Js and C-17s as well as helicopters like Apaches and Chinooks. Though the F-15Es are not as robust and sophisticated as the F-15EXs, the basics are the same,” the source added.

A former IAF official said that Cope India 2023 is being held at a time when India is concerned with China’s military build-up along the Line of Actual Control (LAC). Though the US and Boeing claim that the F-15EX Eagle-II can counter any threat from China, several rounds of trials will be required, he said.

Any MMRCA that the IAF procures has to operate in extreme weather conditions, whether in temperatures ranging around 40-degree Celsius in the Western Sector, or the sub-zero climes of the Himalayas.

Boeing maintains that the Eagle-II is much larger than the Rafale and has a take-off load carrying capacity that nearly equals that of the Su-30MKI. The aircraft can carry up to 22 missiles, including hypersonic ones. It can also counter any threat from Chinese-built hypersonic missiles. It’s fuel tanks also give it an extended range.

The F-15EX has only been inducted into the USAF recently. The aircraft is in the wishlist of several countries, the US claims.

While exercises are fine, officials in India are skeptical about making any commitment and will weigh all the options first, including the indigenous twin-engine Tejas that is being developed.

On Monday, officials at AFS Kalaikunda said that all the aircraft involved in the exercise have flown extensively.

“Multiple missions were flown to enhance Within Visual Range and Beyond Visual Range combat deployment philosophy in large force package,” an official said.

Though there was no specific mention of China, an US official said that both India and the US are keen on maintaining a peaceful Indo-Pacific region.

No way.
Only relevant if there was not a Rafale order before. Now the door is closed.

 

[Hari Sud]

No way.
Only relevant if there was not a Rafale order before. Now the door is closed.

‘Even if they offer competitive price and technology but that problem of long due process even to procure additional improvements, spare parts and everything else in US administration is very cumbersome. A minor official in the State Department or NSA can raise objections which will take months to clear. Hence unless, it is absolutely essential to buy this American bird, we better get similar from elsewhere with cumbersome procedures.

 

[Wisemarko]

‘Even if they offer competitive price and technology but that problem of long due process even to procure additional improvements, spare parts and everything else in US administration is very cumbersome. A minor official in the State Department or NSA can raise objections which will take months to clear. Hence unless, it is absolutely essential to buy this American bird, we better get similar from elsewhere with cumbersome procedures.

Totally baseless nonsense. Name where and when did India face such an issue for any of the current offensive and defensive weapons purchased from the US? Ask your Navy and Airforce how happy they are with the top class service provided by Boeing and Lockheed.

 

[Blademaster]

Check US State Dept slowing down of processing US visas. It’s not a stretch of imagination that they can do the same to any supply of US spares since State Dept have veto powers too.

 

[Wisemarko]

Check US State Dept slowing down of processing US visas. It’s not a stretch of imagination that they can do the same to any supply of US spares since State Dept have veto powers too.

Slowing down? Compared to what?
How many work visas do Indians get for France or Russia (or any other nation) every year? Now compare that to what US provides. All you should say is “thank you State Department for the privilege.”

 

[Azaad]

Slowing down? Compared to what?
How many work visas do Indians get for France or Russia (or any other nation) every year? Now compare that to what US provides. All you should say is “thank you State Department for the privilege.”

Instead of bestowing your kindness on us unwashed , why don't you do us a favor & stop issuing such work visas altogether . Would help your own citizens get their wages as per market conditions & us as well considering most if not all those work visas are issued to candidates educated at subsidised rates courtesy the Indian tax payer. That's brain drain at our end .

 

[Wisemarko]

Instead of bestowing your kindness on us unwashed , why don't you do us a favor & stop issuing such work visas altogether . Would help your own citizens get their wages as per market conditions & us as well considering most if not all those work visas are issued to candidates educated at subsidised rates courtesy the Indian tax payer. That's brain drain at our end .

Work visas are not exclusively for Indians although they seem to line up for them the most- the primary reason for the delay.

Applying for such visa is purely voluntary and not enforced by US. Why not do us a favor and convince Indian applicants to stop applying altogether? That would solve your brain drain problem.

Instead of berating the visa process…. Show some gratitude towards people who make it happen.

 

[Azaad]

Work visas are not exclusively for Indians although they seem to line up for them the most- the primary reason for the delay.

Indian citizens don't often line up outside your embassy in the London for work visas, do they? Citizens of the UK do that . Hope that takes care of the exclusivity clause.

Applying for such visa is purely voluntary and not enforced by US. Why not do us a favor and convince Indian applicants to stop applying altogether? That would solve your brain drain problem.

We tried & failed. Since you obviously have a problem granting such work visas, pls oblige us by banning such work visas ASAP.You owe it to your citizens . Or are you in support of the exploitative practises of the suits who're more than willing to throw their own under the bus? Besides, you already have a precedent of some sort by banning the Chinese students from certain sectors of your academia / economy.

Instead of berating the visa process…. Show some gratitude towards people who make it happen.

Oh indeed, I've got gratitude,plenty of gratitude, just as all those Indian citizens who've been granted such work visas & working in the US - some of whom may well be green card holders or citizens as well as those aspiring for such visas, coming out of our collective a r s e s every morning come hell or high water.

 

[Wisemarko]

Indian citizens don't often line up outside your embassy in the London for work visas, do they? Citizens of the UK do that . Hope that takes care of the exclusivity clause.



We tried & failed. Since you obviously have a problem granting such work visas, pls oblige us by banning such work visas ASAP.You owe it to your citizens . Or are you in support of the exploitative practises of the suits who're more than willing to throw their own under the bus? Besides, you already have a precedent of some sort by banning the Chinese students from certain sectors of your academia / economy.



Oh indeed, I've got gratitude,plenty of gratitude, just as all those Indian citizens who've been granted such work visas & working in the US - some of whom may well be green card holders or citizens as well as those aspiring for such visas, coming out of our collective a r s e s every morning come hell or high water.

 

[Blademaster]

Slowing down? Compared to what?
How many work visas do Indians get for France or Russia (or any other nation) every year? Now compare that to what US provides. All you should say is “thank you State Department for the privilege.”

Never fails. White man always find a way to say to others that they should thank the white man for being given the privilege for something that wasn’t theirs in the first place.

 

[Wisemarko]

Never fails. White man always find a way to say to others that they should thank the white man for being given the privilege for something that wasn’t theirs in the first place.

Was it yours? Nope. Never. Your ancestors didn’t even know it existed.. you are welcome.