MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

Flying Dagger

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Who is 'we'? We is an amalgamation of IAF, MoD and GoI in short Republic of India.
Everybody cares about we. IAF doesn't operate in isolation.

IAF has made it clear. Its requirement is of additional 114 aircraft. IAF has never said it wants EU jets. GoI will chose jets that suit Indian requirement taking in account recommendation from IAF.

Don't mix 2 different programs.

What is Tejas Mk. 3? Their has been a sincere push for locally developed and manufactured systems. If you keep importing such systems you can't never win a against PRC. Local development and productions is the only way ahead.

Its not so easy. Their is a huge obstacle for indigenous systems from all corners. Even for leader like Modi it is difficult to promote local systems. Import lobby is very strong in India and will do anything to subdue local products.

Never under-estimate the import lobby. They won't mind selling the nation to fill their coffers.
If not EU then who ?

It's either Gripen or Rafale offcourse Typhoon ... In the mess.
 

vishnugupt

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IN is completely disappointed with Mig-29K. When it comes to serviceability they are absolutely nightmare.
Mig-29K also doesn't offer much technical capabilities comare to F-18SH or Rafale.
If I am correct, These Mig-29K were brought by IN after detailed trials for years as they take for every weapon.

Being a highly professional force, I believe IN must had evaluated Mig-29 thoroughly. So I believe these are just propaganda against Mig -29k.

By the way, do you want to say IN is fool or corrupt??

One more question, How IN is so sure that now F/A 18SH or Rafale is superior? What about Su-33k?
 

vishnugupt

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When rafale was selected Gripen-E was still in testing stage. Also, I read somewhere IAF wanted a nuke delivery platform and rafale supports that and also has longer range than all the competitors.
Nuke delivery by Fighter jet.... Koi jagao General saab ko ki hum 21st century me aa gaye hai.
 

Dark Sorrow

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If I am correct, These Mig-29K were brought by IN after detailed trials for years as they take for every weapon.
Not actually. With INS Vikramaditya we only had option for Mig-29k. It was not the best case but the only case.
Being a highly professional force, I believe IN must had evaluated Mig-29 thoroughly. So I believe these are just propaganda against Mig -29k.
No, Mig-29k was not evaluated thoroughly. When we purchased INS Vikramaditya we had to purchase Russian aircraft (as per Russian conditions). Mig-29k was the only contender. With INS Vikrant we don't have to care about Russian terms and conditions hence we are looking at the global pool of aircraft manufacturer.
By the way, do you want to say IN is fool or corrupt??
Corruption scandal regarding INS Vikramaditya acquisition is very well documented (even on the forum). You can go through the INS Vikramaditya thread.
Refer case of Commodore Sukhjinder Singh.
One more question, How IN is so sure that now F/A 18SH or Rafale is superior? What about Su-33k?
Su-33 is more obsolete and problematic compared to Mig-29k hence it was not even considered for INS Vikramaditya. As for how IN is so sure that now F/A 18SH or Rafale simple we are carrying out competitive trials. Also specification of F/A 18SH or Rafale are available in public domain, one can easily compare them with Mig-29k.
 
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Dark Sorrow

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Nuke delivery by Fighter jet.... Koi jagao General saab ko ki hum 21st century me aa gaye hai.
When rafale was selected Gripen-E was still in testing stage. Also, I read somewhere IAF wanted a nuke delivery platform and rafale supports that and also has longer range than all the competitors.
Nuke delivery is no longer an important criteria.
Our Ballistic Missile (Strategic and Tactical) and cruise missile have become reliable enough and our strategic force command has gained confidence on them.
Nuke delivery by aircraft was important till early 2000s when our armed forces didn't have confidence in our Ballistic Missile but now we have come long way.
 

Super Flanker

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He is targeting IN and their corrupt procurement procedure
He means they selected MiG-29K with all trails and etc etc so this must be the best aircraft then why is IN wants to shift now
I am not a person who understands much of Sarcasm I guess! (LOL)
In terms of carrier based fighter aircrafts, the Indian Navy should select F/A-18 SH in my opinion, Rafale is good but SH is better in terms of Capabilities AFAIK.
 

Dark Sorrow

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I am not a person who understands much of Sarcasm I guess! (LOL)
In terms of carrier based fighter aircrafts, the Indian Navy should select F/A-18 SH in my opinion, Rafale is good but SH is better in terms of Capabilities AFAIK.
With F/A-18 SH their is an additional that its wings need not be dismantled when moving through the elevator.
 

MirageBlue

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Nuke delivery by Fighter jet.... Koi jagao General saab ko ki hum 21st century me aa gaye hai.
So? The French still use the Rafale as the nuclear delivery platform of choice, with the ASMP-A nuclear tipped missile.

So do the Americans with the F-35 taking on the nuclear delivery role which is one of the reasons why the Germans want to go with the F-35 over the Super Hornet (which does not have such a role) or Eurofighter, for which certifying it to carry the US nuclear bomb is no small task and will take well over 6 years, during which the Germans would lose their nuclear delivery capability with the retirement of the Tornado.
 

MirageBlue

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IN is completely disappointed with Mig-29K. When it comes to serviceability they are absolutely nightmare.
Mig-29K also doesn't offer much technical capabilities comare to F-18SH or Rafale.
The problem was the level of testing that the Russians did with the MiG-29K which was inadequate. The IN was forced to go with the MiG-29K as part of the Admiral Gorshkov deal. It didn't have a choice as the Rafale M back then was immature (at F1 level actually) and the Su-33 was simply too large with a much larger footprint that meant it wasn't really suitable.

The MiG-29K was the only viable option and so the IN went in for it with whatever assurances the MiG Corp gave it. The hope was that it would work out like the Su-30MKI. But the design has structural issues relating to the level of stresses it faces during carrier landings which lead to avionics failures as well. Basically, the MTBO and MTBF figures of the MiG-29K are not meeting the IN's expectations and MiG has been quite frustrating to deal with for the IN.

Things got so bad that the IN approached ADA and HAL to fix some of the MiG-29K's issues since product support from MiG was not up to the mark. And now for the MiG-29K, HAL's Mission Computer is to be installed along with Litening LDP integration. This will allow Astra to replace the R-77 on the MiG-29K as well. But the MiG-29K fleet will go on till 2030 for sure. At worst, they could be handed over to the IAF, since most issues relate to the extreme carrier landing stresses and problems with marinization.

For this reason, the odds of a MiG-35 for the MRFA is next to nil. the IAF won't touch it, given where the platform stands in comparison to the Rafale F4 or F-15EX or even the F-21. As much as I love the MiG-29, I think it's time in the IAF is going to be done with the MiG-29UPG, when it retires. Already there is talk that the IAF is looking to integrate Uttam AESA to the MiG-29UPG as well as Astra Mk1. That might then move to the MiG-29K as well. Just enough to keep the fleet capable and viable but tip of the spear MRFA? No way.
 

vishnugupt

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Not actually. With INS Vikramaditya we only had option for Mig-29k. It was not the best case but the only case.
No, Mig-29k was not evaluated thoroughly. When we purchased INS Vikramaditya we had to purchase Russian aircraft (as per Russian conditions). Mig-29k was the only contender. With INS Vikrant we don't have to care about Russian terms and conditions hence we are looking at
Sadly, whatever you said are just lies. Not even a word is correct.

IN bought Mig-29k 2004 and 2010 under two separate contract after satisfied by first delivery.

Infact contract signed in 2010 was including jets for Indigenous Vikrant (001) carrier. Now suddenly everyone is suffering from dementia.
 

Immanuel

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Not actually. With INS Vikramaditya we only had option for Mig-29k. It was not the best case but the only case.

No, Mig-29k was not evaluated thoroughly. When we purchased INS Vikramaditya we had to purchase Russian aircraft (as per Russian conditions). Mig-29k was the only contender. With INS Vikrant we don't have to care about Russian terms and conditions hence we are looking at the global pool of aircraft manufacturer.

Corruption scandal regarding INS Vikramaditya acquisition is very well documented (even on the forum). You can go through the INS Vikramaditya thread.
Refer case of Commodore Sukhjinder Singh.

Su-33 is more obsolete and problematic compared to Mig-29k hence it was not even considered for INS Vikramaditya. As for how IN is so sure that now F/A 18SH or Rafale simple we are carrying out competitive trials. Also specification of F/A 18SH or Rafale are available in public domain, one can easily compare them with Mig-29k.
Madamji, you're spewing non sense

Indian Navy Expresses Confidence in MiG-29K Naval Fighters; Jets to Deploy From Carriers Vikrant and Vikramaditya (militarywatchmagazine.com)

Indian Navy | Black Panthers MiG-29K Induction [www.bharat-rakshak.com]

Govt takes note of Su-30MKI's poor 'serviceability' | Business Standard News (business-standard.com)

MiG 29K repair facility at INS Hansa | Goa News - Times of India (indiatimes.com)

The Mig-29K was trialed by the IN in 2002 prior to ordering and only after trails were they cleared for purchase.

They ordered 16 first and ordered 29 more as they fit the needs at that time. The Mig-29K at induction was better than the IAF Mig-29 since it had better sensors, avionics, range, weapons etc. Now with IAF's Mig-29s upgraded, they are evenly matched.

While true that MKI, Mig-29 fleets had availability issues prior to Modi Govt. after reworking on deals with Russia, IAF holding more spares on hand at various BRDs and after MRO for the Mig-29K was built in 2017, availability is now in 70% for both fleets which is ideal/good enough for peacetime.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Sadly, whatever you said are just lies. Not even a word is correct.

IN bought Mig-29k 2004 and 2010 under two separate contract after satisfied by first delivery.

Infact contract signed in 2010 was including jets for Indigenous Vikrant (001) carrier. Now suddenly everyone is suffering from dementia.
You are misinformed wrt Mig-29k.
The IN was forced to go with the MiG-29K as part of the Admiral Gorshkov (INS Vikramadatya) deal.
In 2010, it was reported that India and Russia were close to signing a deal for 29 MiG-29K fighters to operate from IAC-1 but it was never offical and no such deal was signed. From 2012 Rafale started to be considered for IAC-1 and slowly Mig-29k was dropped.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Madamji, you're spewing non sense

Indian Navy Expresses Confidence in MiG-29K Naval Fighters; Jets to Deploy From Carriers Vikrant and Vikramaditya (militarywatchmagazine.com)

Indian Navy | Black Panthers MiG-29K Induction [www.bharat-rakshak.com]

Govt takes note of Su-30MKI's poor 'serviceability' | Business Standard News (business-standard.com)

MiG 29K repair facility at INS Hansa | Goa News - Times of India (indiatimes.com)

The Mig-29K was trialed by the IN in 2002 prior to ordering and only after trails were they cleared for purchase.

They ordered 16 first and ordered 29 more as they fit the needs at that time. The Mig-29K at induction was better than the IAF Mig-29 since it had better sensors, avionics, range, weapons etc. Now with IAF's Mig-29s upgraded, they are evenly matched.

While true that MKI, Mig-29 fleets had availability issues prior to Modi Govt. after reworking on deals with Russia, IAF holding more spares on hand at various BRDs and after MRO for the Mig-29K was built in 2017, availability is now in 70% for both fleets which is ideal/good enough for peacetime.
Yet IN wants to buy SH and Rafale over Mig-29k.
That says a lot about Mig-29k.

From where did you get 70% availability figure.
 

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