MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[WARREN SS]

Guys, I have a question here:

In this entire MMRCA tender, the Winning bid will have to build the Aircrafts in India itself under Transfer of Technology with a local indian partner.

I always wanted to know how much Technology will we get in this, if we buy MIG-35, we will get how much Technology of MIG-35, if we buy F-15 ,how much Technology will we get fot F-15. I always wanted to know what kind of technology is transferred with regards to this tender by the winning bid.

I always wanted to know the Answer to this though.

Have u followed MKI manufacturing
Same procedures only difference is
Creation on Infrastructure
Experience to private sector

Basically LRU's will developed and industry will
Get cutting edge Experience apart from.waht got from Russians

We already achieved development of critical technologies in-house with LCA

MRCA deal will created alternatives in private sector

Suppose Tata got the deal
In a decade they will be at level par with HAL.
Who has 50 years of aircraft development experience.

Then since private participation the scope of in-house R&D
Will be increases 2-3 times as Corporates doesn't need
Govt Funding only

They can attract talents from all over the world
And create its own Consortium

Ideally Private participation should started in 80's
We missed the bus due to Nehruvian socialist policies.

Never to late though

But since already spending so much in house

Ideally these 20-30 billion $ should be spend in
Country

As there is various critical technologies which more important for future of our aviation sector.


Most Important and primary technologies are maturity in development of Turbofan Engines

Even if spend even half of amount let just say 10 billion $ on this critical technology

We will reap its fruits For next 50 years to come.

But since india is third grade Bureaucracy
And non visionary politicians who lack basic understanding of S of strategy we are F**ked

 

[WolfPack86]

MMRCA aon in early 2022

 

[Super Flanker]

Hey you all, I had a few questions with relation to this MMRCA tenders:
1)If we select F-16/F-21(In a theoretical scenario)than what will be the Speed of the Production Rate considering that it will be made in India? I believe that Lockheed Martin has partnered with TATA to make the Aircrafts in India itself if F-21/F-16 is selected so if that happens than what will be the Production Rate speed per year?

Like this I also wanted to know what will be the Production Rate in India of other Aircrafts in the tender considering that they will be respectively selected.
2)And if we select any Aircraft, for suppose like the F-15, F-16 etc than will we have the option of making the spare parts in India itself?

3)And 3rd and Lastly ,will you be able to answer my previous questions, if than I will be very much happy.

Thanks in advance

 

[Vikram314]

16-24 per annum I guess. Same for others.
No idea about spare parts.

 

[Super Flanker]

16-24 per annum I guess. Same for others.
No idea about spare parts.

Really? I don't think so. Maybe that Number of 16-24 Aircrafts per year Production speed rate will be for the Bigger Aircrafts like SU-35 ,MIG-35 ,F-15 , Dassault Rafale etc.

But I had read somewhere or heard Somewhere on YouTube a news channel claiming that if India Selects the F-16/F-21 than the jets will be produced at a rate of nearly 50 per year.

Here is the Video, have a look at it:
(Not sure about it's Authenticity though)

 

[KurtisBrian]

But I had read somewhere or heard Somewhere on YouTube a news channel claiming that if India Selects the F-16/F-21 than the jets will be produced at a rate of nearly 50 per year.

found this article

Lockheed nod for F-16 wings in India

US aerospace company Lockheed Martin today approved the manufacturing of wings of F-16 fighter jets at the Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility here. The joint venture with Tatas will cater to the global market.

www.tribuneindia.com

Tata has partnered with Lockheed and will be producing up to 50 F-16 wings a year. You all probably already knew this. Sorry if I write repeated stuff.

 

[Vikram314]

There is no point of discussing about different aircrafts as we already have selected rafale. Next logical option would be to buy more rafale in batches. ideally rafale should be our last imported fighter.

 

[Super Flanker]

found this article

Lockheed nod for F-16 wings in India

US aerospace company Lockheed Martin today approved the manufacturing of wings of F-16 fighter jets at the Tata-Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) facility here. The joint venture with Tatas will cater to the global market.

www.tribuneindia.com

Tata has partnered with Lockheed and will be producing up to 50 F-16 wings a year. You all probably already knew this. Sorry if I write repeated stuff.

Thanks for sharing the article!

Oh so it's saying Production of 50 F-16 wings will happen per year. I had originally anticipated that 50 F-16 Fighter Aircrafts will be produced per year but it was not Aircrafts but Wings I guess I read wrong.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Thanks for sharing the article!

Oh so it's saying Production of 50 F-16 wings will happen per year. I had originally anticipated that 50 F-16 Fighter Aircrafts will be produced per year but it was not Aircrafts but Wings I guess I read wrong.

no, I think you were right (if the article is correct). Near the end of the article it says if Lochheed and Tata win the MMRCA contract they will produce 50 jets a year at the facility! Compare latest F-16/21 to Rafale. Read pilot comparisons.

On that other Forum, people were commenting that an F-35 variant was being designed for some unknown nation. Computer system was being changed but also upgraded.

MY OWN QUESTION JUST CURIOSITY.....What are the odds that a deal has already been hatched and done? India first gets the F-16/21 and soon after an F-35 variant. Lockheed makes both, right? Somebody here said India is switching A2A missiles. Subs are from a NATO partner. Alliances have changed.


World is becoming like Feudal Japan, everyone switching to building weapons for warlords. For a while now the world seems to have had false Knights (like the Samurai were) who have been protecting usurper Lords, looting the Kingdom and looting the people.
Good for those connected to the usurpers (usurpers, "people" like the UK false royalty).

 

[Super Flanker]

no, I think you were right (if the article is correct). Near the end of the article it says if Lochheed and Tata win the MMRCA contract they will produce 50 jets a year at the facility! Compare latest F-16/21 to Rafale. Read pilot comparisons.

I guess than F-16/F-21 will be a good option because anyways indian Airforce needs squadron Strength which the Indian Airforce is lacking. To support a Potential 2 front war with both China and Pakistan, we will reportedly need around 42 Squadrons. But in the Next 10-15 years we won't be able to reach that. So I guess F-21/F-16 will be a good option.

If we go by the claim of 50 Aircraft per year than We will be able Induct nearly 114 Aircrafts in a span of just 3-4 years which quicker than the other Aircrafts in the tender I believe.

But still I don't think so that we will go for F-21/F-16 due to many Reasons. Most probably rafale will be selected again.

On that other Forum, people were commenting that an F-35 variant was being designed for some unknown nation. Computer system was being changed but also upgraded.

MY OWN QUESTION JUST CURIOSITY.....What are the odds that a deal has already been hatched and done? India first gets the F-16/21 and soon after an F-35 variant. Lockheed makes both, right? Somebody here said India is switching A2A missiles. Subs are from a NATO partner. Alliances have changed.

Mate. There is no way that India will Import a 5th generation fighter aircraft like the F-35. US will also not be happy on giving India F-35 because we are an Active Operator of S-400. The first Regiment had already Been delivered in around December/November of last year that is 2021.

(Picture of S-400 air defense system)

(A picture of the F-35 Lighting)
India will be not importing any kind of 5th generation fighter as a whole. We are more interested in making our own 5th generation fighter. We are already working on one which is called as AMCA.
Have a read through Wikipedia link on AMCA:

HAL AMCA - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

India Could Become 4th Country With Indigenous Stealth Fighters; To Get Prototype Approval Early Next Year — Reports

In what could be a big boost to India’s fifth-gen AMCA fighter program, the proposal for full-scale engineering development of its prototypes has been finalized. This will be sent to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for approval early next year, according to The Times of India. The...

eurasiantimes.com

Made-in-India stealth fighter project set to take off in 2022 - Times of India

India is now finally getting set to launch its most ambitious indigenous military aviation project to build a fifth-generation fighter or the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) with advanced stealth features as well as 'supercruise' capabilities. As of now, the development cost of the...

m.timesofindia.com

There are many reasons on why we don't want to buy F-35(I won't tell them all though here)

World is becoming like Feudal Japan, everyone switching to building weapons for warlords. For a while now the world seems to have had false Knights (like the Samurai were) who have been protecting usurper Lords, looting the Kingdom and looting the people.
Good for those connected to the usurpers (usurpers, "people" like the UK false royalty).

I agree with you say here. And anyways I don't think so that under MMRCA we will Import any kind of American Aircraft. F-16/F-21 is a single Engine fighter of the Light weight Fighter category.

We are already making Tejas in light combat Aircraft category so importing an Aircraft like F-16/F-21 would not be good for Tejas. Also our Upcoming Tejas mk2 will be pretty similar in Capabilities to the F-16 and maybe even better in some aspects. Also buying any Aircrafts comes with a US foreign Policy.

If in case of War, Americans turn Against us than they might use kill switch to disable our fleet of American Aircrafts (Considering that in a hypothetical scenario we will buy Them)

The Case for Kill Switches in Military Weaponry

Existing technology might have made it possible to disarm ISIS from a distance

www.scientificamerican.com

And lastly indian airforce preferably wants a twin Engine Fighter Aircraft like Rafale. Anyways SU-35 and F-15 and MIg-35 are not very good but Rafale has the Best chances of Winning this tender.

Rest i will rest my case here. Nothing more to comment on this.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Rest i will rest my case here. Nothing more to comment on this.

Okay, good analysis.

I will end my comments with this.....

At Americas' Mercy: Why France's 'Highly Prized' Rafale Fighter Jets Are Dependent On US Approvals For Their Export

It has not been an easy journey for the French Rafale fighters which have seen numerous roadblocks in their export to partner countries. It was only in 2015 when Dassault Aviation first won an export sale by signing a contract with Egypt. However, even that contract was not devoid of...

eurasiantimes.com

The world is changed, now that money must be fought over why would the US allow rivals to use US parts and patents?
France is a competitor and thus, in business, the enemy.
Can the French make the Rafale without US parts and patents?
Can the Tejas be made without US parts and patents? What leverage does that create?
Russians don't even have a usable AESA radar.
Is there a Quad if India does business with France to the detriment of UAJ nations?

I have no pony in this race. My thoughts are unbiased.

 

[Super Flanker]

Okay, good analysis.

I will end my comments with this.....

At Americas' Mercy: Why France's 'Highly Prized' Rafale Fighter Jets Are Dependent On US Approvals For Their Export

It has not been an easy journey for the French Rafale fighters which have seen numerous roadblocks in their export to partner countries. It was only in 2015 when Dassault Aviation first won an export sale by signing a contract with Egypt. However, even that contract was not devoid of...

eurasiantimes.com

The world is changed, now that money must be fought over why would the US allow rivals to use US parts and patents?
France is a competitor and thus, in business, the enemy.
Can the French make the Rafale without US parts and patents?
Can the Tejas be made without US parts and patents? What leverage does that create?
Russians don't even have a usable AESA radar.
Is there a Quad if India does business with France to the detriment of UAJ nations?

I have no pony in this race. My thoughts are unbiased.

Whatever happens with regards to this tender, well that is something that the future will tell us. We will know after some time which Aircraft will be selected (I don't when this will happen though).

For now I end my Discusssion here. Have a nice day.

 

[Hari Sud]

Forget about MMRCA tender. Concentrate on drones both for surveillance and attack. This is a new technology in which India could take lead or at least keep at par with the West. Import technology, whatever you need but come up with your design and build them yourself. Give the private sector the lead to build them. India has enough fighters and fighter bombers in its inventory to keep the enemy at a distance. Then again india has enough variety of missiles to shoot down enemy fighters if they cross over.

Send all the foreign salesmen back home. We do not need 5th or 6th generation lighter or heavier fighters. Need for these is created when people from our armed forces are contacted by foreign salesmen or Indian personnel visit so many military fairs held all over the world. These fairs are sales techniques with glossy brochures and extra-ordinary amount of wine and women to develop their interests in their products.

Get out of it and get out of thinking of 45 squadrons airforce. Modern fighters are smarter than fighter of 1998 era fighters when 45 squadron number was established. This talk is kept current by salesmen whose main job is sell.

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

More Rafale + LCA + LCA Mk2 + AMCA is the way forwards. No need to have as ridiculous diverse supply chain as India has now. Consolidate and domesticate.

 

[Haldilal]

More Rafale + LCA + LCA Mk2 + AMCA is the way forwards. No need to have as ridiculous diverse supply chain as India has now. Consolidate and domesticate.

Ya'll Nibbiars The United Nations Air Force.

 

[Marliii]

114 rafales the way to go.discussing anyother fighter aircraft is haram.

 

[Tshering22]

114 rafales the way to go.discussing anyother fighter aircraft is haram.

Then be assured that IAF will get either a Typhoon or a Super Hornet. IAF may be a lethal air force and counted among the best in the world in terms of combat, but when it comes to asset management & indigenization, they think from their rectums.

Personally, I am hoping that this is a ruse to throw arms lobbies off track, but they are no amateurs either.

 

[johnj]

Rafales with tot.
F 35 not going to happen, so f 21/16 chance is low. F18 already rejected. F15c/d and f15ex heavy.
mig35 and su35 - unproven aesa, spare issue, iaf not interested.
Gripen - mwf , pak connection, but iaf like it.
Eft- multiple nations, uk pak support, brexit, but iaf love it.
rafale- No issue with goi, iaf. Iaf love it. But current offset is a issue.
Except mig35/su35 all jets were expensive under make in india.

 

[THESIS THORON]

EVEN DEFENSE ANALYISTS ARE NOW SHOWING VISIBLE DISAPPOINTMENT OVER RECENET ORDERS OF INDONESIA

 

[Super Flanker]

Rafales with tot.
F 35 not going to happen, so f 21/16 chance is low. F18 already rejected. F15c/d and f15ex heavy.
mig35 and su35 - unproven aesa, spare issue, iaf not interested.
Gripen - mwf , pak connection, but iaf like it.
Eft- multiple nations, uk pak support, brexit, but iaf love it.
rafale- No issue with goi, iaf. Iaf love it. But current offset is a issue.
Except mig35/su35 all jets were expensive under make in india.

Did the Russians offer the SU-35 under MMRCA tender with Irbis E PESA Radar? I mean except for the PESA Radar hurdle everything else in terms of Avionics, Weopons package etc is good right?