MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[nick_indian]

MIG-35 IN DETAIL : better than rafale?

If we can get these quickly and these are decent fighters than yes.

 

[Synergy]

at this juncture I will vote for scrapping mmrca 2 or mrfa and go for Mirages from Taiwan and 36 more Rafales. probably we will be able to pull it off within $10B.

what's the probability that we will be able to integrate Meteor with Mirages? though I think we can skip this part and concentrate on Astra Mk2.


(completely layman's perspective)

 

[Swiftfarts]

at this juncture I will vote for scrapping mmrca 2 or mrfa and go for Mirages from Taiwan and 36 more Rafales. probably we will be able to pull it off within $10B.

what's the probability that we will be able to integrate Meteor with Mirages? though I think we can skip this part and concentrate on Astra Mk2.


(completely layman's perspective)

Cancel useless Tejas deal and buy 36 more rafale. Get all rights for MIG 35 production and start producing them at HAL and fill the declining Sqd numbers.

 

[Dessert Storm]

at this juncture I will vote for scrapping mmrca 2 or mrfa and go for Mirages from Taiwan and 36 more Rafales. probably we will be able to pull it off within $10B.

what's the probability that we will be able to integrate Meteor with Mirages? though I think we can skip this part and concentrate on Astra Mk2.


(completely layman's perspective)

(1) MMRCA tender looks dead already. Would be G to G.
(2) Don't think Taiwan will sell till their standoff with China eases.
(3) Right about skipping cuz the French would agree to integrate it when Astra 2 would be nearing induction.
Edit: May also b ready to integrate if we agree to buy huge qty of Rafales

 

[Synergy]

Cancel useless Tejas deal and buy 36 more rafale. Get all rights for MIG 35 production and start producing them at HAL and fill the declining Sqd numbers.

nah! we don't need another Russian gizmo at this point in time. we've to diversify. and only a completely insane person will even think about scrapping Tejas. I think we are not that.

 

[Synergy]

(1) MMRCA tender looks dead already. Would be G to G.
(2) Don't think Taiwan will sell till their standoff with China eases.
(3) Right about skipping cuz the French would agree to integrate it when Astra 2 would be nearing induction.
Edit: May also b ready to integrate if we agree to buy huge qty of Rafales

It looks to me, Taiwan is going for replacement for Mirages (with F16). so we should get those within 2/3 years. (I may be wrong).

 

[Swiftfarts]

nah! we don't need another Russian gizmo at this point in time. we've to diversify. and only a completely insane person will even think about scrapping Tejas. I think we are not that.

Paise hain jeb mein kya?

 

[Synergy]

Paise hain jeb mein kya?

how much do we need?

 

[Swiftfarts]

how much do we need?

For 36 rafale around 6 billion probably. Tejas is a useless plane with no future like Bandar from across border. Better buy more mig 29 or 35.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

For 36 rafale around 6 billion probably. Tejas is a useless plane with no future like Bandar from across border. Better buy more mig 29 or 35.

Its useless that's why tejas have the best availability rate in airforce exercises. It's useless that's why AF loved the reliability of its engine.
Its useless that's why it's most important project to support backbone of our aerospace manufacturing infrastructure.
It's useless because it's going to be armed with asea + Jammers which are far more capable than of Mig-29 or Mig-35.
And good look in gifting away money to foreign organizations but when you build tejas in india most of your money stays in india hence cost saving.

 

[Synergy]

For 36 rafale around 6 billion probably. Tejas is a useless plane with no future like bundar. Better buy more mig 29 or 35.

and where does that $6B stands wrt our gdp (percentage wise)? (actually it's $7B).

MiG 29 won't last long (probably till 2030). no point in buying a brand new plane that will be obsolete within 10 years.

we already have huge numbers of Russian weapons. so I don't think we will add any more.

with $9/10B we will get another 36 Rafales those are way better than MiG 29/35, any day any time and 54/55 Mirages (from Taiwan) those are still formidable and will be for the next 10/15 years.

Tejas is our foundation and we will be able to at least use those as point defence (and more).

I'm not sure how it is possible to say a jet useless when it's performance was more than impressive in a recent excercise.

btw, till now how many MiG 35s Russian AF has purchased?

Edit : please justify how Tejas is useless and with no future like bundar.

 

[Knowitall]

For 36 rafale around 6 billion probably. Tejas is a useless plane with no future like Bandar from across border. Better buy more mig 29 or 35.

Are you going to pay 20 billion for rafale.

Kaha se laye paise tumhare shauk pure karne ke liye??

Your statement is useless with not context whatsoever.

Also mig-29 and mig-35 are 2 shit planes whose only saving grace is that India brought them.

Even our navy cries everyday because those useless jets can't stop crashing.

Tejas already is technologically superior to the mig series and has a much more reliable and maintainece friendly engine.

But it appears that facts don't guide your logic.

 

[Knowitall]

(1) MMRCA tender looks dead already. Would be G to G.
(2) Don't think Taiwan will sell till their standoff with China eases.
(3) Right about skipping cuz the French would agree to integrate it when Astra 2 would be nearing induction.
Edit: May also b ready to integrate if we agree to buy huge qty of Rafales

It is dead everybody here has some next level of shauk and dreams.

Already money is tight and we forced to spend extra money during the current standoff how will be fund another 20-30 billion in these vanity projects.

Atleast tejas can be built in numbers and the money comes back to India jobs are created in India R&D investment is in India and eho knows in the future we even manage to export it.

 

[nick_indian]

It is dead everybody here has some next level of shauk and dreams.

Already money is tight and we forced to spend extra money during the current standoff how will be fund another 20-30 billion in these vanity projects.

Atleast tejas can be built in numbers and the money comes back to India jobs are created in India R&D investment is in India and eho knows in the future we even manage to export it.

When are we likely to start getting Tejas in numbers ?

 

[Dessert Storm]

It is dead everybody here has some next level of shauk and dreams.

Already money is tight and we forced to spend extra money during the current standoff how will be fund another 20-30 billion in these vanity projects.

Atleast tejas can be built in numbers and the money comes back to India jobs are created in India R&D investment is in India and eho knows in the future we even manage to export it.

I am all for indigenous. However, pls note that IAF operates 3 categories. Light (Tejas Mk1, Mig21, Jags), Medium (Mig 29, Mirage 2k, Rafale), Heavy (Su30MKI). Done with background, I will put forth the following:
(1) Military purchases are not based on shauk n dreams.
(2) Money is always tight. Govt has to find money to fulfill shortfall in the squadron strength projected in Medium Multi-role category (may b heavy out of Strategic compulsions).
(3) Tejas are being built in numbers. Mk1 40 examples by 2023. MK1A 83 examples 2023-27. Probably more depending on IAF requirements.
(4) IAF plans to retire approx 110 Mig 21 by 2024.
(5) MWF scheduled to enter production in 2027. Approx 200 examples to be made.
(6) AMCA to enter production in 2029-30. Approx 120 examples to be made.
(7) Jaguar fleet retirement starts 2030, ends 2035 In order to remain potent till 2030, they at least need engines starting now.
(8) No medium fighters are entering between 2020 and 2027 except 36 Rafales that is shortage of 78 (114-36).
(9) Light category numbers fall by 70 in 2024 (+40 Mk1-110 Mig 21)
(10) Govt and IAF are therefore still inclined to at least go for a G2G in medium category.
(11) I also would add that we will go for limited outright purchase of 5th Gen Heavy fighters in the next decade, which would probably be the last purchase of a foreign fighter aircraft. Thereafter, it would be collaboration at worst and indigenous at best depending on the category of fighter in question.
* Not even started to talk about retirement of Mig 29 and older frames of Su30Mki.
**Approx Squadron strength required on date is 42. Available strength is 33. So shortfall of 9 already.
***Good to have indigenous but till the time capabilities are built, the squadron numbers cannot be thrown under the bus. Therefore G2G with tech transfer. On the double.
**** Expecting reactions on the broad picture not nitpicking on some detail.

 

[Dessert Storm]

It looks to me, Taiwan is going for replacement for Mirages (with F16). so we should get those within 2/3 years. (I may be wrong).

No official statement from the Taiwanese on that. Further they ain't gifting it. Expect a min of $1.5 billion. Add to that the upgrade cost of approx Rs 300 cores per fighter. Per fighter it comes to Rs.450 cores plus. That for a fighter that IAF plans to start retiring in 2030.

Mirage-2000 Upgradation: High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows | India News - Times of India

India News: The overall upgrade programme of the Mirage-2000s is pegged at Rs 17,547 crore, with the first two fighters being upgraded in France and the rest 49 b

m.timesofindia.com

.

 

[Lancer]

I also would add that we will go for limited outright purchase of 5th Gen Heavy fighters in the next decade, which would probably be the last purchase of a foreign fighter aircraft.

Customized Su-57's would be the best move.

 

[no smoking]

SNECMA asked 500 million euros for hot core tech only to be fitted in Kaveri

You call that unreasonable money? Seriously?

 

[LDev]

Customized Su-57's would be the best move.

First let the Russian Air Force get it's delivery of 76 aircraft. That is expected by 2028. Once that delivery is completed, then let the IAF evaluate operational Russian Air Force SU-57s to figure out if there is interest. Do not get an unproven, not in service with it's home airforce fighter into the Indian Air Force which is then faced with the headaches of maintaining the plane.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Customized Su-57's would be the best move.

did not make a mention of that specifically cuz mention of Su57 attracts immediate reactions, which would dilute topic at hand.
Absolutely agree with you for following reasons:
(1) Weapons package available rocks.
(2) Certain sensors if they work as promised would be wow.
(3) Russians would be happy to help in upgrading MKIs with some tech from the 5th Gen platform.
(4) Americans won't be forthcoming with sharing tech like sensors even if we buy F35. Not that I am saying we cannot or we shouldn't go with F35B for Navy.
* Would obviously prefer all the tech above to be Indian asap.