Misconception of Indian Caste System

[Swesh]

Kps gill knew about these fault lines he used them to hunt khalistanis

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Caste discrimination may not be factor now but was during earlier times.

Even Guru Nindaks of any caste, Patits of any caste were not allowed in temples. So what?

Every society has a social structure. Ours were best. Why do you all goes defensive on this caste thingy?

This is a brits official noted regarding our societal structure.

(Sidney Low, Vision of India, 1906, ch. xv. p. 263).

(Meredith Townsend in Europe and Asia')


This noted by evangelist (probably). How the Varnashram were biggest hindrance in his conversion malice.

(The library magazine 1888)

 

[Coalmine]

I think caste is not the problem .But the discrimination was. And there should be fluidity in castes. People should be able to enter and exit it.

 

[Lonewolf]

I think caste is not the problem .But the discrimination was. And there should be fluidity in castes. People should be able to enter and exit it.

Satiyug type ??

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

I think caste is not the problem .But the discrimination was. And there should be fluidity in castes. People should be able to enter and exit it.

Guru Nindaks of any caste were not allowed in temples. That is a proof of fluidity. Jativaad kya hota hai bc. Vibhishan toh Asur Jati ka hua na. Hanuman Vaanar jaati. SHRI RAM Kshratiya the. Unhone toh Asur Jati ko bhi accept kiya.

Meanwhile the dumb britfags lecturing us on castes lullz. Whilsts their own surnames are linked to occupation.

Smith=Blacksmith fir taylor=tailor fir cook = cook.
Barber = a Barber fir Bell = Bell Ringer.
Duke = Royal Nobelman.
Fuller =

Must be noted vasco. Must be noted columbus. They were coomer evangelists.

Go read about "papalbull".

 

[AnantS]

sure if misconstrued system where mere birth in particular family guaranteed "purity" and "deftness" in family skill - Rahul Gandhi and Digvijay Singhs should have been first choice instead of modi.

someone is living in cuckoo land if they think lower castes were not devotee enough. Guru Ravidass,Guru Rishi Valmiki, Guru Kabirdas, Kanakadas (Udupi) tells you that God truly doesnt discriminate. Revered Guru Adi Shankarcharya in varanasi.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

HAHAHAHHAHA. Ladki ka baap ashraf tha colluded with dalhouise.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

HAHAHAHHAHA. Ladki ka baap ashraf tha colluded with dalhouise.

View attachment 180729
View attachment 180733

@Indx TechStyle ^^^^^

Don't think Mysore was an Islamic kingdom yo?

 

[Tactical Doge]

Don't think Mysore was an Islamic kingdom yo?

Mysore was an Islamic kingdom under Hyder and Tipu
Where's the doubt

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Don't think Mysore was an Islamic kingdom yo?

For little time yes.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

So the Sikhs do have caste discrimination? So much for the holier than thou attitude that they are the most egalitarian and humanity loving among all faiths. Lol. They are just like the rest of the subcontinent people. Regardless of religion there is Dalit versus non-Dalit everywhere I.e Dalit Muslims, Dalit Christians etc.? Any Dalit Buddhists or Jains, by the way?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Mysore was an Islamic kingdom under Hyder and Tipu
Where's the doubt

Same problem with Hindu rulers like Krishna Deva Raya aka Vijayanagara empire. They started well, flourished well and were in a great position to be permanent rulers of south India. Then they screwed it all up by not properly getting rid of the Bahmani sultanate. During their time, a lot of Europeans were residents of the empire. These guys could have at least learnt modern war strategies and how to hold onto an empire from them. A strong alliance between Sikhs in the northwest, Marathas in the central/north and vijayanagara in the south would have made it near impossible for the britfags to expand. But no, they all backstabbed each other. Whereas the British ruled under one king or queen, and everyone was loyal to those rulers for centuries.

 

[Coalmine]

So the Sikhs do have caste discrimination? So much for the holier than thou attitude that they are the most egalitarian and humanity loving among all faiths. Lol. They are just like the rest of the subcontinent people. Regardless of religion there is Dalit versus non-Dalit everywhere I.e Dalit Muslims, Dalit Christians etc.? Any Dalit Buddhists or Jains, by the way?

It is not there now at least among Hindus.
There are no institutional obstruction against Lower caste people.
Ultimately it is upto Individual/castes to uplift themselves.
There are lower caste priests as well.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Same problem with Hindu rulers like Krishna Deva Raya aka Vijayanagara empire. They started well, flourished well and were in a great position to be permanent rulers of south India. Then they screwed it all up by not properly getting rid of the Bahmani sultanate. During their time, a lot of Europeans were residents of the empire. These guys could have at least learnt modern war strategies and how to hold onto an empire from them. A strong alliance between Sikhs in the northwest, Marathas in the central/north and vijayanagara in the south would have made it near impossible for the britfags to expand. But no, they all backstabbed each other. Whereas the British ruled under one king or queen, and everyone was loyal to those rulers for centuries.

Hyder Ali was the chief of the Army of the wodeyars
He usurped the throne and became the defacto ruler of Mysore because the king trusted him very much
When Tipu was ravaging Malabar, the original ruler, Krishna Raja wodeyar was a child and under house arrest back in mysore

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Hyder Ali was the chief of the Army of the wodeyars
He usurped the throne and became the defacto ruler of Mysore because the king trusted him very much
When Tipu was ravaging Malabar, the original ruler, Krishna Raja wodeyar was a child and under house arrest back in mysore

Exactly. Bad succession planning, naively trusting people, not being ruthless in holding onto an empire, not anticipating treachery, not employing better spying methods, not studying successful empire building in other civilizations, just being relaxed and loose, not administering territories well, not keeping the army loyal etc - all combined to create havoc. If you look at any Hindu empire, they just last for 2 or 3 generations and then something happens and the empire just collapses. Compare this to how long the Egyptian pharaohs, Roman emperors, English royals, Chinese dynasties, Ottomans etc ruled their respective areas for centuries without a break in lineage.

 

[Jimih]

Sikh do discriminate between them they treat majhabi as low caste. I had my personal experience in this. Everybody is preacher untill they meet their match. A jatt/jatti would never marry a majabhi Sikh.

Also had this experience while staying there.

There are multiple faultlines within Sikh religion.

Faultlines can be breached, once I mentioned this in other thread. KPS Gill did.

 

[Jimih]

Any Dalit Buddhists or Jains, by the way?

Jai Bhims of Maharashtra are "Dalit Buddhists".

 

[shade]

The elites of persia. The elites of egypt. They all cuckverted to the desert cult in no time.

They had no laws of Dvija and or VarnaAshram.

Shendi/Kshatriya elites and all plebs under them in Goa also converted over whatever deals that the Portugays offered them.
The chaturvarna was also declared halal by a Papal Bull, because this was one of the conditions of the elites to allow their and all plebs conversion to Catholicisim.

The strenght of chaturvarna is that in old times you couldn't have the plebs rebelling against the elite, so you could do a religious conversion only by going after the elite themselves, in other countries and tribes this was by engineering the conversion of the reigning King -> his family -> nobles -> feudal lords -> random plebs in villages, ofc here the "Kings" and Emperors were imported tyrants playing musical chairs with each other, so the chaturvarna ranking was the only stable social feature of Bharat for ~1200 years, not katlulla dynasty A that would get the boot every 100-150 years by katlulla dynasty B.

Also discrimination would exist post-conversion also, unless the religious authorities applied some kind of anti-discrimination teachings, which nobody would bother with, contrary to chooran-sellers, becoming momin or Christian won't save you from bullying by the traditional bourgeois in your village, at the end of the day it's not even a religious issue, but that of class, pleb is always lower than the "educated" or land-owning muscleman tribes you would find, such is a case in every country.

TLDR only good deal has to be offered, same happened with Egypt, Anatolian Greek and Persian elites. , conversion via being convinced over doctrine is a rarity, not suited for converting entire villages/tribes/nations, those are top-down in nature.


In terms of PakMullas, they did it mostly because they didn't want to be on the "menu" of invading Mullah armies, since the Kuffar would be raped/castrated/enslaved first, idk what caused the conversion of al-Kangalistan area of Bengal though.

 

[shade]

And this pains me on how Hindus has become so docile and programmed.

Dhimmis have become so defensive that they can't even call a spade a spade, what stops them from accusing Muzzies and Sikhs of caste discrimination within their religion?

Maybe they are unaware or successive govts of India has made them dumber with time.

BJP can expose and highlight the faultlines in them at the same time while giving the SCs from Christians and Muslims the Reservations which by the way they are currently doing.

Most Hindus don't know this, Momin and Seekh do a very good job of portraying a monolithic, united bloc of themselves, while preaching that their religions don't allow discrimination, the Ashraf-Pasmanda divide or Jatt-Mazhabi divide once again is not known that much.

Jaati based hierarchy is a feature of Indian society, it goes beyond religion, whether exact chaturvarna or something else, dumping the blame only on Hindus and chaturvarna is a demonization strategy.

Exactly. Bad succession planning, naively trusting people, not being ruthless in holding onto an empire, not anticipating treachery, not employing better spying methods, not studying successful empire building in other civilizations, just being relaxed and loose, not administering territories well, not keeping the army loyal etc - all combined to create havoc. If you look at any Hindu empire, they just last for 2 or 3 generations and then something happens and the empire just collapses. Compare this to how long the Egyptian pharaohs, Roman emperors, English royals, Chinese dynasties, Ottomans etc ruled their respective areas for centuries without a break in lineage.

All of those fell because of incompetent dynasts tho.
Only in our case unifying the country was a nigh-impossible task for any one dynasty, and later on you would get retarded descendants very quickly, unlike your examples, it doesn't help that you would have underlings scheming agaisnt you also.

For Ottomans, many times the Sultan was a degenerate, busy with wine and women, but they had a strong "state" so things could proceed for a while without direct intervention of the Sultan.
For a while...

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Shendi/Kshatriya elites and all plebs under them in Goa also converted over whatever deals that the Portugays offered them.
The chaturvarna was also declared halal by a Papal Bull, because this was one of the conditions of the elites to allow their and all plebs conversion to Catholicisim.

The strenght of chaturvarna is that in old times you couldn't have the plebs rebelling against the elite, so you could do a religious conversion only by going after the elite themselves, in other countries and tribes this was by engineering the conversion of the reigning King -> his family -> nobles -> feudal lords -> random plebs in villages, ofc here the "Kings" and Emperors were imported tyrants playing musical chairs with each other, so the chaturvarna ranking was the only stable social feature of Bharat for ~1200 years, not katlulla dynasty A that would get the boot every 100-150 years by katlulla dynasty B.

Also discrimination would exist post-conversion also, unless the religious authorities applied some kind of anti-discrimination teachings, which nobody would bother with, contrary to chooran-sellers, becoming momin or Christian won't save you from bullying by the traditional bourgeois in your village, at the end of the day it's not even a religious issue, but that of class, pleb is always lower than the "educated" or land-owning muscleman tribes you would find, such is a case in every country.

TLDR only good deal has to be offered, same happened with Egypt, Anatolian Greek and Persian elites. , conversion via being convinced over doctrine is a rarity, not suited for converting entire villages/tribes/nations, those are top-down in nature.


In terms of PakMullas, they did it mostly because they didn't want to be on the "menu" of invading Mullah armies, since the Kuffar would be raped/castrated/enslaved first, idk what caused the conversion of al-Kangalistan area of Bengal though.

I implied wholesale conversion. The wholesale conversion did not happen in BHARAT.
Doctrines of Dvija and VarnaAshram is one of reason the DHARMA is surviving in Goa. The paganism of egypt/persia is extinct. The complexity of the culture is the key. The more complex the culture is the harder it is to crack.