Misconception of Indian Caste System

[arnabmit]

I have never been a supporter of the left, not all Bengalis are. Such generalizations merely highlight your idiocy.

You same logic, the second largest majority of Delhi voted for AAP, so a generalized statement "Delhi is on the verge of becoming a Naxal state" should also hold true?

You have convinced me Caste system is based only on your profession. It has been corrupted by Islamists/Christians/Commies.

PS: Bangali calling a Delhite commie ?

 

[Peter]

No, Manusmriti was not. They were doctored later. Read previous post.

Well they were misogynistic in my opinion. All religious books are. I had already mentioned that my surname is Maitra and I am a Varendra Brahmin. I am not quoting the tale of the rakhal boy who listened to the Vedas from the internet. I had heard this tale from an elderly Bengali teacher who was also a Brahmin. Also the teacher was from Chupri village of Nadia so he probably did not have access to English/doctored version of the scriptures. As for the other parts you may be right. I am not an expert or master of this things.

 

[Razor]

So what if ancient scriptures contain parts which can be construed as misogynic.
It was not a perfect world, and it never will be.
Besides men played more prominent roles in building civilizations and empires. Can't they be proud of that ?
A bit of that pride will trickle down into their literature too, sometimes in unpleasant ways. Nothing surprising.

 

[Peter]

So what if ancient scriptures contain parts which can be construed as misogynic.
It was not a perfect world, and it never will be.
Besides men played more prominent roles in building civilizations and empires. Can't they be proud of that ?
A bit of that pride will trickle down into their literature too, sometimes in unpleasant ways. Nothing surprising.

Agree with you.
That is what I am saying that no one was perfect. All ancient scriptures are misogynistic. We cannot nitpick only Indian ones. The simple reason was that previously men held the high positions and as we all know it is the winners who write history books.

We were unique in one respect. I would like to point out that Indian scriptures also speak of the care that children should give to their fathers and mothers. This part is missing in most holy books around the world. To others God is in heaven but to Indians God is in man and the way to worship God is through parents. After all everyone knows the Pita swarga Pita dharma hymn in Bengali. Similarly a same hymn exists for mothers too.

 

[Singh]

I have never been a supporter of the left, not all Bengalis are. Such generalizations merely highlight your idiocy.

You same logic, the second largest majority of Delhi voted for AAP, so a generalized statement "Delhi is on the verge of becoming a Naxal state" should also hold true?

Delhi and Punjab are Naxal states, surprised you didn't know. They are all intellectuals who want equality for all aka Brahmins. not capitalists who steal from others aka shudras.

 

[fyodor]

True, however I was always under the impression that the Manu smriti was one of the defining scripture distinctly highlighting the (lower) status of women in Hindu Society. I'm just trying to get a sense of how much of this was original and how much of it was doctored.

You have to understand that manu smriti is a 'smriti'. Smritis are a canon of texts which are mutable, changing according to time. And then there are Shrutis, like the Vedas or upanishads which are immutable.
So even if some smritis(of which manu smriti is one of it) have repressive verses then it is not necessary to follow them. Every epoch has it's own smritis. In that sense IPC is a smriti.
Hindus are not bound to abide by manu smriti in the 21st century, just like 50 years from now IPC would have changed a lot and we will be following new laws.

 

[arnabmit]

LOL, you underestimate the Distorians. The systematic disinformation campaign has being going on since the last 1000yrs and is not a recent phenomenon. Whatever your ancestors read 5 generations ago was also doctored text, because all original text was purposefully destroyed much before that.

Well they were misogynistic in my opinion. All religious books are. I had already mentioned that my surname is Maitra and I am a Varendra Brahmin. I am not quoting the tale of the rakhal boy who listened to the Vedas from the internet. I had heard this tale from an elderly Bengali teacher who was also a Brahmin. Also the teacher was from Chupri village of Nadia so he probably did not have access to English/doctored version of the scriptures. As for the other parts you may be right. I am not an expert or master of this things.

 

[arnabmit]

If it had been there originally, then there would have been no problem to accept it. The problem is that they were deliberately introduced later to subvert the existing functioning societal fabric.

So what if ancient scriptures contain parts which can be construed as misogynic.
It was not a perfect world, and it never will be.
Besides men played more prominent roles in building civilizations and empires. Can't they be proud of that ?
A bit of that pride will trickle down into their literature too, sometimes in unpleasant ways. Nothing surprising.

 

[arnabmit]

LOL if only that would have been the definition of Naxals!

But alas, Naxals are nothing but liars and contortionists whose only objective is to spread anarchy, chaos and discord, make people suffer, then appear as the messiah to those who they have made to suffer.

Delhi and Punjab are Naxal states, surprised you didn't know. They are all intellectuals who want equality for all aka Brahmins. not capitalists who steal from others aka shudras.

 

[Energon]

LOL, you underestimate the Distorians. The systematic disinformation campaign has being going on since the last 1000yrs and is not a recent phenomenon. Whatever your ancestors read 5 generations ago was also doctored text, because all original text was purposefully destroyed much before that.

If it had been there originally, then there would have been no problem to accept it. The problem is that they were deliberately introduced later to subvert the existing functioning societal fabric.

Who was responsible for the doctoring and what was the objective?

 

[Mad Indian]

It does not matter what corrupted what as history is a moot point. The only way to end caste system is by intercaste marriages and encouraging intercaste marriages with reservations and other such incentives

And as usual there is the usual upper caste propaganda on reservation. Which idiot told you guys that reservations are for economic purpose? Its for social mobility and for correct representation of all communities in the government. The people who want economic based reservation are just sinister clowns who want an all uppercaste govt/bureaucracy. Take a hike fellas, reservation will be there till either social justice is achieved or castes becomes irrelevant

 

[Mad Indian]

But alas, Naxals are nothing but liars and contortionists whose only objective is to spread anarchy, chaos and discord, make people suffer, then appear as the messiah to those who they have made to suffer.

In AAP's case they are doing it in reverse .ie, first appear as messiah and then cause chaos and make people suffer

 

[Energon]

It does not matter what corrupted what as history is a moot point. The only way to end caste system is by intercaste marriages and encouraging intercaste marriages with reservations and other such incentives

And as usual there is the usual upper caste propaganda on reservation. Which idiot told you guys that reservations are for economic purpose? Its for social mobility and for correct representation of all communities in the government. The people who want economic based reservation are just sinister clowns who want an all uppercaste govt/bureaucracy. Take a hike fellas, reservation will be there till either social justice is achieved or castes becomes irrelevant

How exactly does one promote intercaste marriage through reservations? Also how is social mobility not directly related to economics?
Also the way things have panned out after independence, it seems that reservations have become a great tool for politicians to exploit in order to garner large number of votes and then plunder the system with abandon for personal financial gains without giving a single thought to the quality of institutions (which offer reservations) or actual social mobility.

 

[Vinash]

All true, but one distinct feature at GT is they run Langar 24×7.

It's easy to do that as they aren't run by the Government.

There was another feature, all people irrespective of caste sat together.

Never heard of Caste being a factor in any big temple in my life. Now don't bring some small time village which stops Dalits into the discussion. The same happens in some Gurudwaras in Punjab.

The roti was made by volunteers again without any restriction based on caste

Again, very easy to do when Government doesn't control the Temple.

 

[AnantS]

It's easy to do that as they aren't run by the Government.



Never heard of Caste being a factor in any big temple in my life. Now don't bring some small time village which stops Dalits into the discussion. The same happens in some Gurudwaras in Punjab.



Again, very easy to do when Government doesn't control the Temple.

Caste discrimination may not be factor now but was during earlier times. The temple kitchen was manned by specific castes only and is open at specific times. What I am saying is that they initiated this again inspired from how community food was served in malsi.
Rest now its not a unique feature of Sikhism. 24x7 volunteer kitchens are at many temples in north. I believe there was one run by Late Gulshan Kumar called T series langar in very early 90s in Mata Vaishno Devi . Serving food is not unique to Sikhism and rest what you said is all true.

 

[Blademaster]

But Marathas also had French and Portuguese officers in the Army. So did the French and Portuguese save the Sikhs? There is no end to it. Indian kingdoms were complicated and unlike the Ming dynasty there were no pan India unifying rulers for a long, sustained period in our history. Mauryas, Marathas and the Turks (Mughals) were the most successful unifiers but even they did not control all of Indian subcontinent systematically. The British were the only ones to do so - complete control with a pan Indian administration for a significant period of time. Only if Marathas had been smart after Shivaji’s demise and had built a powerful pan Indian empire with a powerful European style Navy, India would not have been colonized by the britards. But as usual the descendants of shivaji screwed it all up - a common feature of all Indian empires. This is a common feature to this day. Grand parents and parents build up wealth and the next generations screw it all up.

That is why dynastic politics must end. Our kings were responsible for the sorry state the Indians found themselves in and allowed the British with a superior system to swoop in and take over the continent.

 

[Tuco]

Caste discrimination may not be factor now but was during earlier times. The temple kitchen was manned by specific castes only and is open at specific times. What I am saying is that they initiated this again inspired from how community food was served in malsi.
Rest now its not a unique feature of Sikhism. 24x7 volunteer kitchens are at many temples in north. I believe there was one run by Late Gulshan Kumar called T series langar in very early 90s in Mata Vaishno Devi . Serving food is not unique to Sikhism and rest what you said is all true.

Who eats the food vs who cooks it? Is that a problem. If a particular caste cooks it, but everyone gets to eat it. I don't see a problem there. Isn't this how jatis came into being wood worker, gold smiths etc etc

 

[AnantS]

Who eats the food vs who cooks it? Is that a problem. If a particular caste cooks it, but everyone gets to eat it. I don't see a problem there. Isn't this how jatis came into being wood worker, gold smiths etc etc

Even while serving food there was discriminqtion lower caste could not eat with higher caste. Also only rules that need to be adhered while selecting cook- devotion and love of God , knowdge of Kitchen and adherence to rituals. That is best. Rest I won't g into whether past was good or bad.

I think everything was not pink in health, thats why you see animoisty against hindus among religion who sprung out of it.

 

[Swesh]

Sikh do discriminate between them they treat majhabi as low caste. I had my personal experience in this. Everybody is preacher untill they meet their match. A jatt/jatti would never marry a majabhi Sikh.

 

[Vinash]

Sikh do discriminate between them they treat majhabi as low caste. I had my personal experience in this. Everybody is preacher untill they meet their match. A jatt/jatti would never marry a majabhi Sikh.