Mil Mi-26T2 Halo vs Boeing CH47F Chinook

[Ray]

In a full fledged war what would be the environment?

I am neither for nor against any of the alternatives given.

The survivability should be factored in when considering other factors.

 

[Adux]

Brigadier I always hear this thing that US stuff is maintenance intensive when compared to the soviet stuff.If so how are our boys goings to deal with the logistics

Not maintenance rather ruggedness, but at what cost, AK-47 as shown as the great example of it, at the cost of accuracy. MiG's were shown as a great example of it, at the cost of uptimes, what is the use of having a rugged machine, when you cant get it in the air most of the time, and unlike the soviet union we dont have the luxury of 3000 aircrafts or more.

 

[Adux]

And what would be the tactical situation when C 130 is to be used?

Exactly Brigadier,

C-130 and An-32's can and will go into a hot zone, forward operating airfield; Mi26 cant even do that, it will be slow moving slug. If there is a airfield, then C-130J will go there, if there is no airfield, is there requirement beyond 10 tons at one go? People are not looking at the trade off's Mi26 employs to get that extreme tonnage. It simply isnt the equipment we need for our mission objectives.

 

[Sancho]

And what would be the tactical situation when C 130 is to be used?

The whole C130J procurement is not for transporting cargo and stuff in first place, but to offer Indian special forces a dedicated transport aircraft, that can be used in tactical roles. But if required, IAF uses it in normal transport roles as well, especially in areas where other transport aircrafts can't be used:

IAF to deploy new C-130J squadron in West Bengal

...The C-130J Super Hercules aircraft were used extensively by the IAF for carrying out relief operations during the Sikkim earthquake.

They have already created the record for the longest flight when they air dropped a contingent of Indian Army Special Forces in Andaman and Nicobar Islands after taking off from Hindon air base...

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/iaf-to-deploy-new-c-130j-squadron-in-west-bengal_768434.html


Mi 26 will be used in similar disaster relief or transport roles, but as it's prime use, while the C130s will do it only as an additional role.

there requirement beyond 10 tons at one go?...It simply isnt the equipment we need for our mission objectives.

Please check the weight of the Bofors howitzers of IA and you will see that you are wrong. The new M777s on the other side can be even transported my M17 without any problem, let alone by Mi 26, that can carry several of them as combined internal and external loads.

 

[Adux]

And the next one who is confusing IAF with US forces.

The most comparable helicopter of US forces, that does the same roles like Mi 26 in IAF is not the Chinook, but the CH 53!

I am sorry, your mistake is still trying to equate tonnage capability of the Mi26 as the requirement of IAF, it is not. But I am not suprisied that you think that way, it takes a little more intelligence and ofcourse love for the right country and its forces. IAF and IA's plans are coinciding here regarding their Mountain Divisions for the Chinese theater. They care about Mountain top positioning and re-supply where a single heli supply wont be more than 8-10 tons. But, then again you dont get that, since you want IAF to buy Russian toy, not their operational requirements.

 

[arya]

buy any one but for god say buy and produce them in local market , joint venture .

when will govt understand we also need advance drone on very urgent base , even Pakistan has few one on secret base

 

[Drsomnath999]

why dont india get V22 osprey instead

 

[Tshering22]

why dont india get V22 osprey instead

Expensive, less tactical advantage than a helo and limited space. Both the competing Helos offer more space and capacity.

 

[Adux]

Please check the weight of the Bofors howitzers of IA and you will see that you are wrong. The new M777s on the other side can be even transported my M17 without any problem, let alone by Mi 26, that can carry several of them as combined internal and external loads.

I didnt see this spout of brilliance before.

Now, you are getting sillier and sillier, You just equated 5tons capability of M-17V5, a brilliant machine, that it carry 4.2 ton M777 and its supporting infrastructure which runs into another ton or more ( ammo, spares etc) to the 'heights' thats is required.. It cant, nor can the Mi 26 for various other reasons. And IAF is not going to send in a helicopter twice to set up a artillery post nor is it ready to send a slow slug which is unsuited for the job either. You dont understand how the design of Chinook makes it a far more easier to operate aircraft in the mountains, the fact it doesnt have a conventional tail rotor is a boon in the mountains ,not to mention the postioning of its tail rotor to that of its ramp, gives it a far more freedom in high angles landing. I am willing to bet Rs.1000 to DFI, that Chinook is going to get it.
Heck, IAF doesnt need anything, all it requires is too look at its own Mi-26 fleet, THEY FLY LESS THAN 30 HOURS a Year!

 

[Adux]

why dont india get V22 osprey instead

unproven and expensive product, but I see more and more helicopters being replaced by such machines, though not by V-22.

 

[Adux]

Expensive, less tactical advantage than a helo and limited space. Both the competing Helos offer more space and capacity.

I dont know about tactical advantage, but everything else I agree.

 

[Sancho]

I am sorry, your mistake is still trying to equate tonnage capability of the Mi26 as the requirement of IAF, it is not. But I am not suprisied that you think that way, it takes a little more intelligence and ofcourse love for the right country and its forces. IAF and IA's plans are coinciding here regarding their Mountain Divisions for the Chinese theater. They care about Mountain top positioning and re-supply where a single heli supply wont be more than 8-10 tons. But, then again you dont get that, since you want IAF to buy Russian toy, not their operational requirements.

As I pointed out, it's not only the tonnage that gives Mi 26 an advantage, but that it provides IAF with alternative transport options, besides the fixed wing aircrafts. The Chinook doesn't provide much more advantages than the Mi 17s in this field, because it is too limited by size and performance. You are clearly confusing the tactical roles of Chinook on the one side and heavy lift roles Ch 53 or Mi 26 on the other side, then you say that IAF wants to use these helicopters to carry howitzers, but claiming that there is no requirement to carry more than 8 to10t, although the bofors howitzers alone weights more, let alone their trucks or other heavier vehicles. You didn't even read the article about the Mi 26 to undestand what their role is in IAF, so who is really confused here?

why dont india get V22 osprey instead

We will, if there will be a requirement to add tactical aicrafts with VTOL capability, but this is the heavy lift competition and that's why Boeing proposed the biggest helicopter they have.

 

[Yusuf]

I am willing to bet Rs.1000 to DFI, that Chinook is going to get it.

You are sooo cheap. Just Rs.1000?

 

[mayfair]

Heck, IAF doesnt need anything, all it requires is too look at its own Mi-26 fleet, THEY FLY LESS THAN 30 HOURS a Year!

That's like writing off Tata Indica V2 after the first Indica's were a nightmare..or aaplying the Apple III yardsticks to Mackbook Air.

Mi-26T2 fielded for this competion is streets ahead of what IAF has been flying.

 

[Adux]

That's like writing off Tata Indica V2 after the first Indica's were a nightmare..or aaplying the Apple III yardsticks to Mackbook Air.

Mi-26T2 fielded for this competion is streets ahead of what IAF has been flying.

TATA Indica still sucks ass infront of a Ford Figo or a Maruti Suzuki. Quite Simplistic comparison. We will see how the competition will unfold

 

[mayfair]

TATA Indica still sucks ass infront of a Ford Figo or a Maruti Suzuki. Quite Simplistic comparison. We will see how the competition will unfold

Yet Indica is out there on the streets and quite popular.

I am just saying that it makesno sense to apply outdated parameters to judge a current system. I'm sure the IAF will put them through hell before deciding which one to pick.

 

[Adux]

As I pointed out, it's not only the tonnage that gives Mi 26 an advantage, but that it provides IAF with alternative transport options, besides the fixed wing aircrafts.

Silly you, It is not about Transporting tonnage, its about Transporting where and what, and the extent of that requirement. India has the Himalayalan mountain ranges, which is our Chinese sector. We need to create artillery positions here and re supply them.

The Chinook doesn't provide much more advantages than the Mi 17s in this field, because it is too limited by size and performance.

So C-17 and An-224 are the same, I see. Nicely done.

You are clearly confusing the tactical roles of Chinook on the one side and heavy lift roles Ch 53 or Mi 26 on the other side,

Again, You are forgetting the location, geography and the enviornment where this is going to be used. Paveway is going to suck ass in such a place, which is exactly in Afghanistan US FOB's on mountain tops are resupplied by Chinooks and not MH-53K. Get your head out of the tonnage arguement, look at design and logistics. There is no need to bring in a trailer for transporting 300cu of sand in a panchayat roads, where a mini lorries will do.

then you say that IAF wants to use these helicopters to carry howitzers, but claiming that there is no requirement to carry more than 8 to10t, although the bofors howitzers alone weights more, let alone their trucks or other heavier vehicles.

Bofors are going to kept on Mountain tops really? that too in the ranges of chinese theater, laughable.

You didn't even read the article about the Mi 26 to undestand what their role is in IAF and so who is really confused here?

You dont even know what the machine is required for, and what is its operational objectives. You dont even know that this is in reality a IA requirement.

 

[Yusuf]

TATA Indica still sucks ass infront of a Ford Figo or a Maruti Suzuki. Quite Simplistic comparison. We will see how the competition will unfold

Under the current scenario, who lobbies well, will win.

 

[Adux]

Yet Indica is out there on the streets and quite popular.

I am just saying that it makesno sense to apply outdated parameters to judge a current system. I'm sure the IAF will put them through hell before deciding which one to pick.

Its popular because it is cheap and gives good miliege, I owned a brand new V2 in college for year, drove 80,000 km's in it. If I had to overtake something, I switched off the A/C.



Nothing revolutionary has happened in Mi-26's , mayfair especially regarding the Engine. It has a digital cockpit though, and it is completely unsuited for the role we have envisaged. There is a reason why the Americans didnt offer the MH-53 , also not the F-15K in MMRCA.

 

[Adux]

Under the current scenario, who lobbies well, will win.

Rafale tells me otherwise. I am not going to paint the whole procurement process because of Tatra and T-90
Russians should have offered a product which would have been well suited to our operational requirement. Unfortunately they dont have such a product.