Mil Mi-26T2 Halo vs Boeing CH47F Chinook

Adux

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Now that special needs prefect has brought about his labelled tabular cross verified data sheet, let see what it doesnt have.


1. Design - How the chinook being a twin rotor which means doesnt have a low hung tail rotor is of enormous advantage in mountains, it will be easy to maneuver in the mountains, and will not be at the risk of crashing its tail on to the mountains, while trying to place offload ramp on the mountain side.

2. Uptimes - The 5 Mi 26 in the IAF has only been to fly 60 hours or less in an year, rest of the time it is maintainence which is on the basis of extreme wear tear due to poor design

3. After Sales/Support - The Mi 26 has the worst track record in the area, it is near impossible to find its spare parts

4. Customer Faith - There are only 70 Mi 26 flying today of a total 316 made, in 26 years it dwindled to less than 1/4th of its total inservice birds.Most customers thought it was prudent to just retire them, compare the same to the Mi-17's of the world. While more than 80% of the produced are still flying today.

5. Future Upgrades - Chinook has firm orders and has more than 1300 flying today, as opposed to 20 Mi 26 of Russian Air Force that will be upgraded to T2 standard, and 'hopefully' a further 20 will be ordered by the Russian Air Force. The future and upgrade path of Mi 26 is not secure. What you to note here very importantly is that, India is not upgrading its Mi 26, it could have done the same as Russian Air Force, even though iAF have very less hours on their machines, Please ask yourself why?

6. Life Cycle Cost - The fuel ratio and expensive spare part make the Mi 26 a very expensive product to use. Like most russian machines.

7. Service Ceiling - Just calculating over sheer tonnage is idiotic, its about useful tonnage. Our FOB's and ALG's are all above 15,000 feet , Mi 26 cannot reach there, so Mi 26 bringing BMP's, Tanks or resupplying the FOB in the Chinese sector is just a pure pipe dream.

If that is the case, what good is the Mi 26? That it can haul more tons in places where we have other options to do the same, Mi 17's, C-130's, C-17's? What good is it, when it cannot and will not carry good's to places where we actually need them? The Mi 26 will not be able to carry even 1 ton to an FOB or ALG, while the chinook can carry 10-12 tons, guess who carries more now?

Mi 26 is just good for carrying large amounts of goods in flat surface areas under 15,000 feets ( that is if you can get it to fly) , Do we have the need of an expensive and maintenence intensive bird for such trivial tasks, which can be taken care of by other options, while we have an emergency need of helicopter's which are combat capable and can actually supplement our chinese defense strategy.

The time of the Mi 26 is over, and it will be good to be prudent and intelligent to accept that unlike Mi 17 , the Mi 26 is not a good product design wise or by the virtue of our doctrine.


PS: The Chinook has successfully completed every parameter laid out by the IAF in its evaluations as per Boeing Press release, while Mi 26T2 has not given any such releases, I am sure as my conviction that our special needs prefect is a complete moron with false pride, that the Mi 26T2 has not been able to achieve all the parameters laid out by the IAF.
 

Adux

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A small correction, Mi 26 can land at Dalut Beg Oldie ALG, which is 15,000 Ft high( MI 26 flies till 15,100ft) while the rest of our ALG's are higher and our FOB in the mountains will be atleast 2000 to 3000 ft higher.
 

Sridhar

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The flight has the unique distinction of operating the world's heaviest helicopter in the highest and coldest battlefield in the world, the Siachen Glacier. The flight has undertaken flood relief operations in different parts of the country as well as relief operations during the Orissa Supercyclone of 1999. The flight played a major role in avoiding a Bhopal like gas tragedy at Paradeep Phosphates Ltd where the Ammonia gas tanks needed to be cooled at the earliest to prevent the gas from leaking out. The flight airlifted heavy duty generators which were used to cool the storage tanks thus avoiding a major disaster. The flight was also actively involved in the Kargil war wherein it performed numerous missions by day and night.

Another unique feature of the Mi-26 helicopter is its ability to carry very heavy (weighing upto 20 tons) and odd shaped loads slung under its belly. The flight has played a major role by airlifting various aircraft - fighters, helicopters and even a civilian passenger plane. Featherweights have played another big role in nation building by transporting heavy loads of the Konkan Railways Corporation Ltd which was entrusted with the task of laying the railway line between Jammu and Banihal. The flight also regularly undertakes air maintenance sorties to the highest Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO) at an elevation of 15,500 feet above mean sea level. The flight was instrumental in making the ALG at DBO fit for use by the fixed wing transport aircraft by airlifting heavy machinery like dozers and rollers to DBO.

The flight also played an important role in the revival and reopening of Vijaynagar ALG in the North Eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh. All sorts of heavy machinery and construction material were transported in the Mi-26 to make the ALG fit for landing. The flight has been closely associated with various projects of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The Mi-26 has time and again been called upon to lead various helicopter formations on occasions like the Air Force Day parade, Republic day parade and Presidents fleet review.

Press Information Bureau English Releases
 

Parthy

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I admire your grit bud!

Here you go:

No one can question about Russian design and military equipments ability!! how about their serviceability and parts availability?? We already have so much issues with Russian imports!!
 

Adux

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Every nicely avoided the part about 8000 flight hours in 26 years, If we were anything we got lucky to have those flghts, I am going to judge cannibalism to keep some flying.
 

Adux

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No one can question about Russian design and military equipments ability!! how about their serviceability and parts availability?? We already have so much issues with Russian imports!!
What ability to carry oversized and higher tonnage cargo? an MH-53K and other Heli's who can do the same, What about uptimes and service ceilings. What about badly designed , maintenance intensive and not to mention sparse spare support dont people understand.

We should be able to use the damn bird, where we want and when we want. Something Mi 26 isnt going to fullfill

PS: Also in the photograph, I hope would have noticed even on a relatively calm day, there is heavy down wash being generated, look at those blades.
 
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sob

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The winning point for the Chinook will be IMO the service ceiling and most importantly the spares. MIL 26 has been a headache.
If IAF does go in for the Chinook, then like we have been doing for other American equipment we can order spares 2x or 3x of our requirement. This will insulate us to some extent in case of problems with the US ( However I do not forsee it happening in the near future unless we have another nuclear test)
 

sferrin

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CH-53K for the win. (Though the time table may be off.)

More horsepower than Mi-26 (3 x 7500shp and have run at over 8000shp), modern everything, marine capable.

I may be biased though. :)



Re: the CH-47 I just thought I'd toss these two pictures in. The first is a CH-47 carrying the XCH-62 test vehicle. The XCH-62 was a heavy lift helicopter designed in the 70s (shown in the 2nd pic).



 
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trackwhack

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I told ya you'd like this thread. I can only quote from data available on the web but the CH53K has a max payload of 55 troops or 16 metric tonnes against 90 troops or 20 metric tonnes for the Mi-26. So I dont understand what the extra hp accomplished?

Can you post a little about the chopper and your experience with it?
 

sferrin

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I told ya you'd like this thread. I can only quote from data available on the web but the CH53K has a max payload of 55 troops or 16 metric tonnes against 90 troops or 20 metric tonnes for the Mi-26. So I dont understand what the extra hp accomplished?

Can you post a little about the chopper and your experience with it?
The extra horsepower is good for things like higher altitude and engine-out situations. Nobody really has experience with the K model yet as they're still building the first test units. The USMC can't wait to get their hands on it though as the current models are blowing through their airframe hours pretty quick. As for my own personal experience I really can't say much at all as it's proprietary information and I want to keep my job. :)
 

trackwhack

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The extra horsepower is good for things like higher altitude and engine-out situations. Nobody really has experience with the K model yet as they're still building the first test units. The USMC can't wait to get their hands on it though as the current models are blowing through their airframe hours pretty quick. As for my own personal experience I really can't say much at all as it's proprietary information and I want to keep my job. :)
Good to have someone who knows his shit on the forum. You could teach us patzers a thing or two. :)
 

pmaitra

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TrackWhack, sferrin is correct. That extra hp helps in going to greater heights, however, I am not sure whether that goes above the 'cruise' rpm, if you know what I mean.

SFerrin, could you please tell us for how long or for what distance the Chinook can sustain continuous flight at 'top' speed, and not 'cruise' speed?
 

pmaitra

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The winning point for the Chinook will be IMO the service ceiling and most importantly the spares. MIL 26 has been a headache.
If IAF does go in for the Chinook, then like we have been doing for other American equipment we can order spares 2x or 3x of our requirement. This will insulate us to some extent in case of problems with the US ( However I do not forsee it happening in the near future unless we have another nuclear test)
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...over-iran-oil-india-allows-payments-iran.html
 

sferrin

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TrackWhack, sferrin is correct. That extra hp helps in going to greater heights, however, I am not sure whether that goes above the 'cruise' rpm, if you know what I mean.

SFerrin, could you please tell us for how long or for what distance the Chinook can sustain continuous flight at 'top' speed, and not 'cruise' speed?
No idea. 123456
 

pmaitra

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^^

Thanks for uploading, although I didn't understand much. :(

The only thing that keeps ringing in my head is 'Mi-dwa-chay-tay-dwa!'
 

Ray

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Kak vashe dzaroviye, gaspadin maitra?

Ya gavaroo pa russki nyemnogo.

Now, which helicopter is the better one?
 

pmaitra

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Kak vashe dzaroviye, gaspadin maitra?

Ya gavaroo pa russki nyemnogo.

Now, which helicopter is the better one?
Prastitye pazhalusta, ya iz Indii; ya ni gavaryoo paruskii! :)

For strategic purposes, Mil-26T2 is better, because it is faster, has a longer range, and can carry almost twice the number of troops (90) than the Chinook (assuming there are no spare problems).
 

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