Merkel: Europe can no longer rely on America

bipin

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Many european country may be wealither then russia but when it comes to Russia combined europe wont be able to take them without USA helps

As is said earlier this European countries could not threw out Gaddif from libya without US help where gaddif libya army was nothing in comaprsion to UK/french/germany armed forces and here we are taking that they would take on russian army

And you think USA would allow such europe army to become strong .Well if such situation arises USA would fist have pop-corn and allow europe-russia fight and would jump in war at last moment to emrge hero
You must be joking about Gaddafi. Just because US did it does not mean EU could not have done it. In fact US(read Hiliary Clinton) has been criticized for creating a humanitarian crisis in Libya. US initialy supported the Libyan rebels and later bombed both Gaddafi and rebels. Now the country is unstable ready for radicals to take over.

You are forgetting that NATO isnt just limited for defending Europe. NATO armies were in Iraq and Afghanistan. US has been using NATO against ISIS. Why should Euro countries do America's bidding if US threatens to pull back from NATO. Gaddafi may have posed some threat to EU, but then many NATO campaigns around the world have only benefited US.

US has much to lose if it pulls back, there is no popcorn. And EU nations are simply calling on Trump's bluff.
 

prasadr14

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He could get impeached for firing FBI director Comey
Trump will NOT be impeached. It's not that easy to remove US president. Don't buy into the left media BS that comes out with this insane idea.

FYI, Clinton was caught with his dick inside another woman's mouth in Oval office and yet he remained as president, even after caught lying about it.

Trump is doing very well for his constituency.

If we have to by media reports, then, in India Modi must be doing horribly as well ;)
 

Project Dharma

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Trump will NOT be impeached. It's not that easy to remove US president. Don't buy into the left media BS that comes out with this insane idea.

FYI, Clinton was caught with his dick inside another woman's mouth in Oval office and yet he remained as president, even after caught lying about it.

Trump is doing very well for his constituency.

If we have to by media reports, then, in India Modi must be doing horribly as well ;)
I don't agree that he is doing well, as opposite from it as he can in fact. But let's not go there for the sake of this thread. I agree that there is no chance in hell that he will be impeached.
 

chex3009

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The 'fake' media in this country is as much obsessed with Russia as the fake media in our country is with Al Bakistan.
 

xeaaex

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US's loss is Germany's gain. I can't blame her for Trump's goofups. How do you expect Trump to lead NATO when he is best friends with Putin and berates Merkel and other EU leaders.

For people who do not get why this is happening. It is because EU is getting its own army.
  1. Donald Trump BATTERS Brussels with order to STOP EU Army plans or lose US Nato support http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...EU-Army-Nato-funding-European-Union-President
  2. EU army moves step closer: Ministers APPROVE Brussels defence headquarters http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/775843/eu-army-ministers-approve-brussels-defence-command-centre
UK was always against this army. And it is one of the reasons they exited EU. And now this is why US is threatening to take NATO.

The combined EU gdp is close to that of US. And it already has world's leading defence companies. And you guys really thought they cannot fight their own wars? Over the course of time we would get a clear picture of what this army will do and how powerful it is. But one thing is clear Germany has a central role in shaping EU army.

As for India Germany relationship. I feel that there can be a mutually beneficial partnership and not just in defence. EU (in general) is one of the largest markets bigger than North America. Also EU is more open to skilled immigrants from India unlike US. It is an opportunity that should not to be wasted.
But there was recent rise in visa allocation for Indians in usa.
Like 30% growth even after Trumps crack down on h1b Visa.
 

prasadr14

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But there was recent rise in visa allocation for Indians in usa.
Like 30% growth even after Trumps crack down on h1b Visa.
the visa change rules were not targeted at Indians, it was all smoke and mirrors.
All the rule changes after trump are targeting Muslims.

To be factual, even before trump, during Obama, for Indian muslims to get visitor visa to USA was a big problem. I personally know parents of some of my muslim friends who are in US, repeatedly being denied a visa. Never happens with Hindu parents.
All part of smoke and mirrors. The law says one thing but the real target is something else.
 

xeaaex

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the visa change rules were not targeted at Indians, it was all smoke and mirrors.
All the rule changes after trump are targeting Muslims.

To be factual, even before trump, during Obama, for Indian muslims to get visitor visa to USA was a big problem. I personally know parents of some of my muslim friends who are in US, repeatedly being denied a visa. Never happens with Hindu parents.
All part of smoke and mirrors. The law says one thing but the real target is something else.
Good that they are targeting proper thing, they have learnt from other countries mistakes that allowing a specific community will destabilize usa internally.
As far as India is concerned we should have good relationship with both usa and Europe and improve our trade.
 

Krusty

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I have to wonder, is UNSC such a big deal for a massive country like India?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Just my 2C but It's my firm belief that India should stay well away from the UNSC for now. We are ill prepared for a seat. India doesn't have the will to be a global power let alone all the other criteria. The only thing we know to do at important UN votes is abstain. We don't deserve a seat with that attitude. I don't even want to get into military and ability to project power and take on other countries without fear of economic collapse.
 

aditya10r

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Just my 2C but It's my firm belief that India should stay well away from the UNSC for now. We are ill prepared for a seat. India doesn't have the will to be a global power let alone all the other criteria. The only thing we know to do at important UN votes is abstain. We don't deserve a seat with that attitude. I don't even want to get into military and ability to project power and take on other countries without fear of economic collapse.
Yes,we are not prepared now.
For that we have to increase our economic and political weight and we must use military as a tool to project power.
We must emerge as a asian miliary-economic-political powerhouse to demand such thing.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Really? Dealing with Trump at the moment is harder than rest of G7 leaders.
Dealing with trump is my better as he is a business and unified perspective compared to EU where every country is running with its own agenda.
War is complicated when you have another country who doesnt care about you defending your ass. And when that country asks for ransom. US has no interest in defending EU for EU's sake, it is in it for money, which is why it keeps asking for increasing defence spending. Only one country has benefited from this war and that is US.
How does this counter my point? I just said without US the Russians would massacre EU.
In regards to market here are some figures :

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/
https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/04/euro-vs-american-middle-class/524193/

According to above EU sees more activity and has larger middle class with more equitable income distribution to support it. You must provide any source to support your claim.
Google it you will find thousands of articles where clearly shows India and China have better prospect to sell consumer goods in US than EU. Also not to forget Europeans prefer European goods over Indian. US is some one with higher standard of living with high population.
Best example is just check on Google how Europeans compare Indian IT industry vs East European IT industry. When their all points fail they start talking on quality of software on general aspect.
Your view about Europeans is outdated. If they were still fighting among themsleves EU would never have formed. Challenges remain much like India has and the reason there are challenges is because EU is cultually diverse land. Lastly about the racism you said, I hear more news about Indians getting lynched in US and Australia, not in EU. If you have proof - hard numbers, surveys please show it, otherwise you are just badmouthing 750 million people for no reason.
Read my statements properly before commenting. I never talked about infighting among EU but as you want to talk about it just look at Brexit.
 

bipin

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Dealing with trump is my better as he is a business and unified perspective compared to EU where every country is running with its own agenda.

How does this counter my point? I just said without US the Russians would massacre EU.

Google it you will find thousands of articles where clearly shows India and China have better prospect to sell consumer goods in US than EU. Also not to forget Europeans prefer European goods over Indian. US is some one with higher standard of living with high population.
Best example is just check on Google how Europeans compare Indian IT industry vs East European IT industry. When their all points fail they start talking on quality of software on general aspect.

Read my statements properly before commenting. I never talked about infighting among EU but as you want to talk about it just look at Brexit.
Dude you keep talking in air. Why should I google for you, I should keep searching all web until I find that page. You have not posted a single source or solid evidence on any of your claim. Besides you were countering my post, I was just reiterating my point. NATO is a give and take relationship, US protects EU and in exchange gets EU nations army for its global campaigns. US will suffer consequences of pulling from NATO. If you can make US pull out of NATO just so Russia invades EU, please I dare you to make them. If you cant well then keep living in your bubble.

Trump is well within legal framework when he fired the FBI director and won't get impeached for the same.
The crime was obstruction of justice not just firing FBI director. He fired him to stop investigation on his connections with Russia. That is the impeachable offence. Ever heard of Nixon. He did the same and was about to be impeached, so he resigned.

Clearly you are one with bias and little knowledge of affairs. Much of your statements show your own agenda - you think EU is more racist, despite Trump forcing Indian-origin IT companies in US to hire local talent. Maybe verify what you think in your head before posting.
 

brational

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Europeans are such buggers that they don't want to get their hands dirty. They used/supported US in every dirty job and blame US at the end. They have successfully projected US as the bad boy after accomplishments of their selfish goals. Good for America if they stay away from European countries. Let European take their destiny in their own hands.
 

bipin

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Trump will NOT be impeached. It's not that easy to remove US president. Don't buy into the left media BS that comes out with this insane idea.

FYI, Clinton was caught with his dick inside another woman's mouth in Oval office and yet he remained as president, even after caught lying about it.

Trump is doing very well for his constituency.

If we have to by media reports, then, in India Modi must be doing horribly as well ;)
Firstly fornicating and lying about it is not serious enough to be impeached. Americans know that pretty well (if you know what I mean). They even elected Trump after the pussygate.

Secondly there is no analogy between Trump and Modi other than that their party is right wing in their countries. According to Indian media Modi is doing pretty well. According to most US news corps (even the non-fake ones), Trump is a disaster.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Dude you keep talking in air. Why should I google for you, I should keep searching all web until I find that page. You have not posted a single source or solid evidence on any of your claim. Besides you were countering my post, I was just reiterating my point. NATO is a give and take relationship, US protects EU and in exchange gets EU nations army for its global campaigns. US will suffer consequences of pulling from NATO. If you can make US pull out of NATO just so Russia invades EU, please I dare you to make them. If you cant well then keep living in your bubble.
Are you high? What are you talking about? I have not said a single you claim.
The crime was obstruction of justice not just firing FBI director. He fired him to stop investigation on his connections with Russia. That is the impeachable offence. Ever heard of Nixon. He did the same and was about to be impeached, so he resigned.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Just read how FBI directors are hired. What Nixon did was completely different!!! I recommend you to read about Watergate Scandal before you talk.
Clearly you are one with bias and little knowledge of affairs. Much of your statements show your own agenda - you think EU is more racist, despite
How old are you? I believe you have never handled international business transaction. Care to explain how Trump forcing companies wanting to do business in US have to hire US citizens is racist? Your logic is totally flawed!!!
Trump forcing Indian-origin IT companies in US to hire local talent. Maybe verify what you think in your head before posting.
Why should Trump let Indian IT companies in hire Indian and ship them to US at cost of local US citizens? This is what he said during election (that he will get back jobs) and he is doing it now. He is looking after US interest and we should look after our. As far as EU answer me first why all companies run after US and not EU even after Trump's arrival.
 

bipin

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Are you high? What are you talking about? I have not said a single you claim.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Just read how FBI directors are hired. What Nixon did was completely different!!! I recommend you to read about Watergate Scandal before you talk.

How old are you? I believe you have never handled international business transaction. Care to explain how Trump forcing companies wanting to do business in US have to hire US citizens is racist? Your logic is totally flawed!!!

Why should Trump let Indian IT companies in hire Indian and ship them to US at cost of local US citizens? This is what he said during election (that he will get back jobs) and he is doing it now. He is looking after US interest and we should look after our. As far as EU answer me first why all companies run after US and not EU even after Trump's arrival.
As usual no evidence.
Firstly prove EU is more racist (which was your original point) then you can ask questions.

Secondly quoting wikipedia on Nixon's impeachment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon)

On July 27, 1974, the Committee voted 27–11 to recommend the first article of impeachment against the president: obstruction of justice.[85][86] The Committee then recommended the second article, abuse of power, on July 29, 1974.[87] The next day, on July 30, 1974, the Committee recommended the third article: contempt of Congress.[89]

Watergate happened in 1972. Nixon was relected even after Watergate in 1973. The scandal escalated because he fired the Watergate Special Prosecutor and asked for favors to end the investigation. Nixon likely would never have been impeached if he let prosecutors work. It was the firing that escalated the scandal.

If you can comprehend the subtle details, the real reason isnt just Watergate. Unlike Watergate the damages for Russia collusion cannot be seen in public. Firing FBI director is obstruction of justice because Trump asked heads of intelligence to cover up the Russia investigation. Clearly he wants to hide something. Else if he is innocent why is he stopping FBI.

Lastly I never said US is racist, I said Trump. IT companies are not running for US (again give proof if they are). They will start laying off hundreds of thousands of employees. They will fire existing employees of Indian descent to hire locals. New jobs are not being created, only existing employees will be kicked out.
You are one manipulative jerk who doesnt know anything.
 
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Razor

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Just my 2C but It's my firm belief that India should stay well away from the UNSC for now. We are ill prepared for a seat. India doesn't have the will to be a global power let alone all the other criteria. The only thing we know to do at important UN votes is abstain. We don't deserve a seat with that attitude. I don't even want to get into military and ability to project power and take on other countries without fear of economic collapse.
So what do you suggest we do to make us eligible for UNSC seat?

Vote "yes" or "No" at those useless voting dramas??T
"Madam Chairman, I would like to put forward the issue of water leaking out of my plumbing, for the past five days. This delicate issue has caused untold suffering and great pain for the blahhhhhh..., there is strong evidence to suggest that Russia <<insert american enemy here>> has links to this event.... blah blluehh"

What does the UNSC seat do? Why should a country that has 1/6th world population, a (relatively) sturdy economy and a powerful miltary force (again relatively) aspire to be part of it, instead of UNSC aspiting to include that said country?
Why did China get UNSC seat in '70 (??) Coz it was projecting power all around?

Open to discussion.

Also @aditya10r
 

aditya10r

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So what do you suggest we do to make us eligible for UNSC seat?

Vote "yes" or "No" at those useless voting dramas??T
"Madam Chairman, I would like to put forward the issue of water leaking out of my plumbing, for the past five days. This delicate issue has caused untold suffering and great pain for the blahhhhhh..., there is strong evidence to suggest that Russia <<insert american enemy here>> has links to this event.... blah blluehh"

What does the UNSC seat do? Why should a country that has 1/6th world population, a (relatively) sturdy economy and a powerful miltary force (again relatively) aspire to be part of it, instead of UNSC aspiting to include that said country?
Why did China get UNSC seat in '70 (??) Coz it was projecting power all around?

Open to discussion.

Also @aditya10r
What i am saying is that we are not flexing our military muscles.............Our presence must be felt from malacca straight to the straight of hormuz,create vital military installations in the asia-pacific region and forge steel strong ties with countries in aisa and the middle east.

We clearly lack this and this is something that bogs us down.It will take us atleast 10 years to fix this.

We better look beyond IOR and start focusing on anti-china squad in the aisa pacific region.For starters lets forge some great ties with iran and the central aisan states.
Make UN dependent on india for any asia related matter,support anything or movement that affects the current world order.

And as for the chinese,they should not be in the council.They waged war against the american led un forces in the korea,is a problem for international trade thanks to the scs dispute,i doubt its sovereignty because it kicked the democratic forces out of the mainland
 

Krusty

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So what do you suggest we do to make us eligible for UNSC seat?

Vote "yes" or "No" at those useless voting dramas??T
"Madam Chairman, I would like to put forward the issue of water leaking out of my plumbing, for the past five days. This delicate issue has caused untold suffering and great pain for the blahhhhhh..., there is strong evidence to suggest that Russia <<insert american enemy here>> has links to this event.... blah blluehh"

What does the UNSC seat do? Why should a country that has 1/6th world population, a (relatively) sturdy economy and a powerful miltary force (again relatively) aspire to be part of it, instead of UNSC aspiting to include that said country?
Why did China get UNSC seat in '70 (??) Coz it was projecting power all around?

Open to discussion.

Also @aditya10r
Case back when China was offered a seat was different. The initial list was just one of the victors with absolutely no other factors. Even France didn't make it into the list. That's how China got in. Case back then was dramatically different than the condition required now. Ref my earlier post below. Getting pretty late here. Will post in detail about our lack of political and diplomatic will tomorrow.

Ah, China.. the perfect example of 'right place and right time'. Yes, they were beaten back badly by the Japanese in ww2. China (ROC at the time) was considered one among the 'four key allies' by Franklin.D.Roosevelt. Not even France made it to the list. That list was one that Roosevelt deemed was the coalition which had free armies which could decide the course of the war. Roosevelt was so keen on China because it could serve the key role of diverting Japanese forces in the Pacific where the US had a huge chunk of its force.

Churchill on the other hand who was involved mainly in the European and North African theatre, where there was no Chinese role, did not like Roosevelt's idea. He later got France to join the 4 members in as a tradeoff for Roosevelt's stand on China.

So yes, regardless of being beaten back or not, China (ROC) had a huge army and resources which made the US give it the position of a 'key ally'. Little did they know just a few years later Mao would crash the party. And India, regardless of the men and material supplied wasn't considered 'Indian'. they were resources of the British colony (A perception that the British narrative held and something that we as Indias should work to change). Even after independence, India had no infrastructure or prosperity (not to mention it was still not fully our of colonialism) to support the role of a UNSC member even if it were offered and accepted at the time.
 

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