Massive Protest in Hong Kong against China

huaxia rox

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yes i did find out....what an interesting question....i thought 'i think i know my history better than u do.....' indiretly has answered your question....

just like when u ask: do u know 1+1=2....and i say: i know maths pretty well........which should be regarded as an answer......i just dont know u dont know....and now i ve known unknown unknowns really can strike sometimes......
 

ani82v

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yes i did find out....what an interesting question....i thought 'i think i know my history better than u do.....' indiretly has answered your question....

just like when u ask: do u know 1+1=2....and i say: i know maths pretty well........which should be regarded as an answer......i just dont know u dont know....and now i ve known unknown unknowns really can strike sometimes......
Which leads us to the first question. If you know about your history quite well, then why are you not so sure about protests in HK. I would like you to be more forthcoming on this!

As a Chinese on this forum, we expect some insights from you. Not some lame excuse that there was some concerns in HK and it was all peaceful and it was all fine, etc etc. :bs:


not serious so far.....unless the text books r proved brainshed and not corrected and sent to the class......i think hong kong people have showed their concerns over the issue in a peaceful way...
...to start in primary schools this year and secondary schools next year - will mimic ''patriotic education'' teaching on the mainland, which instils fervent nationalism rooted in a deep sense of victimhood...

..In China, students only learn how to praise the party...

..."Currently the curriculum makes no mention about issues like the Tiananmen Square crackdown or who is (Chinese dissident) Ai Weiwei, so we are not convinced it can encourage independent thinking," a student at the demonstration was quoted as saying....
What is YOUR take on these concerns raised!
 

huaxia rox

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1 i said i know chinese history better than u do....dont distort what i said.....

2 i said i know chinese history is not like saying i m a historian or what.....i just know many things....which r discussed and drewn conclusions......or some r debatable......but at least i know its still being debated......no conclusion so far......for example....if your sikh patiala troops got in kashmir before the azad kashmiri pathan operation in 1947??? its debatable right??

3 what has happened in hk was something took place a couples of days before.....the whole event could last for some years if the textbook is not getting dropped but sent to schools maybe with some changes maybe not......so at this point i only can say there was protest in hk which showed some hong kong peoples concerns regarding the text book thing.......i dont think this event has become a history.....its still developing......

4 no 1 killed so far or seriously injured so i said it was peaceful.....

5 in china... students only learn how to praise the party...this is wrong statement.........indeed cpc is often praised in text books (which is problemtic indeed) but students have to learn a lot of things.....
 

ani82v

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1 i said i know chinese history better than u do....dont distort what i said.....

2 i said i know chinese history is not like saying i m a historian or what.....i just know many things....which r discussed and drewn conclusions......or some r debatable......but at least i know its still being debated......no conclusion so far......for example....if your sikh patiala troops got in kashmir before the azad kashmiri pathan operation in 1947??? its debatable right??

3 what has happened in hk was something took place a couples of days before.....the whole event could last for some years if the textbook is not getting dropped but sent to schools maybe with some changes maybe not......so at this point i only can say there was protest in hk which showed some hong kong peoples concerns regarding the text book thing.......i dont think this event has become a history.....its still developing......

4 no 1 killed so far or seriously injured so i said it was peaceful.....

5 in china... students only learn how to praise the party...this is wrong statement.........indeed cpc is often praised in text books (which is problemtic indeed) but students have to learn a lot of things.....
Is this avatar your real photo???

 
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Ray

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what r u doing now??

i m reading and watching something like this....

75 Muslims Convert to Hinduism in Kolkata- 29 Jan,...

indeed as u go...
They are not Hindus in the real sense.

Go to Mayapur, you will find many foreigners who claim to be Hindus.

All this so called conversions is a backlash to keep the numbers!

In modern India, no one cares what you are.

If I say I am not a Hindu and so there it is!
 
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mylegend

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Ray, stop bashing nonsense... According to any poll, majority of people from HK will claim themselve to be 华人(ethnic Chinese), what they are against is the cruelity of CCP, the dictatorship of CCP, if they do not believe themselve to be Chinese, then non of them will care of mainland issue such as Tiananmen Square Masscre. In fact, every single year, there would be massive protest regarding to Tiananmen Square Masscre.
 

Bangalorean

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Ray, stop bashing nonsense... According to any poll, majority of people from HK will claim themselve to be 华人(ethnic Chinese), what they are against is the cruelity of CCP, the dictatorship of CCP, if they do not believe themselve to be Chinese, then non of them will care of mainland issue such as Tiananmen Square Masscre. In fact, every single year, there would be massive protest regarding to Tiananmen Square Masscre.
Mylegend, I have to disagree with you here, based on practical experience.

I met a cute little Hong Kong girl some months back, and she hated it when I called her "Chinese". She was like, "I am not a Chinese, I told you I am from Hong Kong". Many people from HK call themselves Hong Kongers, and don't associate with being called "Chinese". Its not just me, I know others who have had similar experiences dealing with HK people. It was also obvious in my case, that this girl looked down upon mainland Chinese and considered HKers superior - though she didn't say so in as many words, the implication of her speech was obvious.
 

Ray

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China: Protesters Sent to Labor Camp

China: Protesters Sent to Labor Camp



HONG KONG - Two people from mainland China are reported to have been sentenced to one-year terms in a labor camp for attending a march in Hong Kong earlier this month.

The South China Morning Post and Radio Free Asia said the two mainlanders - who were among hundreds of Chinese who attended the march - had unsuccessfully petitioned mainland officials to investigate the unexplained deaths of their spouses.

Labor camps are often used to punish dissidents and other troublemakers. A recent Al Jazeera documentary said they are part of China's vast network of work farms and forced-labor prisons - ''the biggest penal colony in the world'' - that is collectively known as the ''laogai.''

News of the mainlanders' detentions for ''anti-China activity'' came as the U.S. State Department gave another grim analysis of human rights abuses in China, as Rebecca Berg reports in The New York Times.

''Our message to the Chinese government is, you've made progress on the economic front,'' Michael H. Posner, the assistant secretary for democracy, human rights and labor, said at a briefing. ''This is the moment to open up the space to allow people to dissent, to question government actions, and to do so without fear of retribution.''

Mr. Posner also said, ''The overall human rights situation in China continues to deteriorate.'' His comments came after an annual human rights dialogue between China and the United States. A State Department transcript of the briefing is here.

Song Ningsheng, 44, and Zeng Jiuzi, 53, both from Ningdu County in Jiangxi Province, were helped in their trip to Hong Kong by a rights group based here. The group's leader, Liu Weiping, said undercover security police from the mainland had tracked the two during their visit.

''This is a really big deal that the state security police followed them all the way to Hong Kong,'' Mr. Liu said, quoted by R.F.A. ''Hong Kong and mainland China are supposed to be separate systems that don't mingle with each other.

''The Chinese government should understand that they're not going to frighten off most petitioners just by punishing one or two of them,'' he said. ''The petitioners are no longer afraid to die.''

Mr. Liu, in a brief conversation with Rendezvous on Thursday, said it was now ''very dangerous'' for mainland protesters in Hong Kong, although he himself did not feel threatened. He also confirmed having assisted Mr. Song and Ms. Zeng.

Ms. Zeng's son said that his mother had learned of her sentence from the local police.

''The police said that my mother and Song Ningsheng went to Hong Kong and took part in an illegal demonstration,'' said the son, Liu Zhonghua. ''They had also petitioned illegally in Beijing a number of times.

''I asked whether they would give me an official notification document, and he said there was no need, because they could just do this with a nod to the people at the labor camp.''

The Morning Post, which reported the two marchers had received 14-month sentences, said it had seen the first page of the official two-page judgment. A rights activist who was allowed to visit Ms. Zeng at the labor camp surreptitiously took a photo of the document.

The Hong Kong march that they joined is held each year on July 1 to mark the anniversary of the British handover of the territory to China in 1997. Many of the marchers decry the restrictions on democracy, free speech and free assembly on the mainland.

This year's event was one of the largest protests in Hong Kong in the past decade, with organizers estimating the crowd at 400,000. All such large-scale protests, of course, are banned on the mainland.

This year, in addition, a new Hong Kong chief executive was inaugurated at a ceremony overseen by President Hu Jintao of China. The new leader, Leung Chun-ying, gave his inaugural address in Mandarin, which surprised many Hong Kongers who saw it as an obeisance to the mainland. The vast majority of Hong Kong citizens speak another dialect, Cantonese.

In reporting about the march, my colleague Keith Bradsher said that ''an unexpected element of the demonstration that may discomfit Beijing officials lay in the participation of hundreds of mainland Chinese who carried banners denouncing the confiscation of their farms for government-backed real estate projects in communities near Hong Kong.''

''It is not possible to protest in China, so we come here instead,'' a middle-aged mainlander told Keith during the march, speaking on the condition of anonymity to avoid government retaliation.

People from the mainland have attended other vigils and protests here, but usually more discreetly and usually at night. (The July 1 gathering this year began in the afternoon.) And they typically do not carry banners about their complaints, as they did quite openly, which might have made them easier for undercover police to identify.

As R.F.A. reported about this year's march: ''The protesters carried banners that read 'We are from mainland China,' and 'Smash the black jails,' in a reference to China's network of unofficial detention centers used to hold those who complain about the government.''

People presenting grievances in China can fare poorly at the hands of the authorities. Most often the petitioners are simply ignored or turned away by local officials, although some decide to press their complaints in Beijing. That ups the ante, as it were, and the resulting punishments can be harsh.

According to their sentencing document, Mr. Song and Ms. Zeng, who are described by the Morning Post as ''activists,'' went to Beijing to twice present their petitions after their trip to Hong Kong.

My colleague Andrew Jacobs has reported on China's black jails, where many petitioners end up. An excerpt from one of Andrew's stories from Beijing in 2009:

They are often tucked away in the rough-and-tumble sections of the city's south side, hidden beneath dingy hotels and guarded by men in dark coats. Known as ''black houses,'' they are unofficial jails for the pesky hordes of petitioners who flock to the capital seeking justice.

This month, Wang Shixiang, a 48-year-old businessman from Heilongjong Province, came to Beijing to agitate for the prosecution of corrupt policemen. Instead, he was seized and confined to a dank room underneath the Juyuan Hotel with 40 other abducted petitioners.

During his two days in captivity, Mr. Wang said, he was beaten and deprived of food, and then bundled onto an overnight train. Guards who were paid with government money, he said, made sure he arrived at his front door.
IHT RENDEZVOUS - China - Protesters Sent to Labor Camp - Brief - NYTimes.com
The long arm of the Chinese Public Security catches up fast. The two were followed to Hong Kong and nabbed as soon as they undertook 'anti China' activity!

Some feel that these types of arrests will not deter those who wish to protest.

It is estimated that 400,000 took part in the Hong Kong protest, making it the largest ever held!

Hong Kong people, being relatively free, unlike the Mainlanders, decry the restrictions on democracy, free speech and free assembly on the mainland.

But being hauled away by the Public Security secret police in China can be bad. You get beaten and deprived of food as the person has said!

If China does not stop all this special status to Hong Kong quickly, this 'anti China' flame may reach the Mainland and could prove the end of the glorious days of the CCP control.

All said and done, one cannot deny that Mao, whatever be his ways, is the real architect of China.
 

Predator

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Re: China: Protesters Sent to Labor Camp

mao would be proud
 

Ray

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Re: China: Protesters Sent to Labor Camp

China is so concerned about its image as a country that has so much of harmony, when, in actuality, it is in a chaotic state.

Jackboot tactics keep things from becoming a revolt, but how long it will be accepted is the issue.
 

Poseidon

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Re: China: Protesters Sent to Labor Camp

21st century Stalin.
 

huaxia rox

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They are not Hindus in the real sense.

Go to Mayapur, you will find many foreigners who claim to be Hindus.

All this so called conversions is a backlash to keep the numbers!

In modern India, no one cares what you are.

If I say I am not a Hindu and so there it is!
so its u to decide whos real hindu and who aint??
 

Ray

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HK backs down on patriotism lessons

HONG KONG -- Hong Kong's government on Saturday backed down on a plan to force school children to take Chinese patriotism classes, after weeks of protests and on the eve of crucial legislative polls.

"The amendment of this policy means that we are giving the authority to the schools," the city's leader, Leung Chun-ying, told reporters a day after activists said more than 100,000 protesters rallied at government headquarters.

"The schools are given the authority to decide when and how they would like to introduce the moral and national education," he added, blaming the mandatory nature of the policy on his predecessor's government.

The proposal to introduce mandatory "national education" classes in all schools from 2016 was condemned as brainwashing by students and teachers, and sparked weeks of protests that brought scores of protesters onto the streets.

The government said the subject was important to foster a sense of national belonging and identity, amid rising anti-Beijing sentiment in the semi-autonomous southern city of seven million people.

Schools were meant to adopt the subject voluntarily this year but many said they wanted more guidance from the government about how it should be taught.

A survey released last week showed 69 percent of students opposed the classes.

Course material funded by the government extolled the benefits of one-party rule, equated multi-party democracy to chaos, and glossed over events like the bloody Tiananmen crackdown and the mass starvation of Mao's regime.

Lawmaker Anna Wu, who chaired a committee studying the policy, said the government had decided on a course of action that was "the most inclusive and most liberal."

"It is also very consistent with academic freedom and therefore I support this move," she said.

The former British colony goes to the polls on Sunday to elect a new 70-seat legislature, which will play a crucial role on the city's path to direct elections for its leader in 2017 and the legislature by 2020.

Pro-democracy parties were using the education furor to galvanize their supporters, hoping to boost their representation in parliament and maintain a veto over constitutional amendments.

Leung took office in July after being put in power by a small committee of mainly pro-Beijing elites.

HK backs down on patriotism lessons - The China Post
The tight slap across the Communist rulers face in Hong Kong seems to have resounded and left a mark.

The people have spoken.

The Communists are cowering down and scampering like scullery rats!

If on the Mainland they had even limited democracy as they have in Hong Kong, the Communists would have been put in their place.
 

s002wjh

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The tight slap across the Communist rulers face in Hong Kong seems to have resounded and left a mark.

The people have spoken.

The Communists are cowering down and scampering like scullery rats!

If on the Mainland they had even limited democracy as they have in Hong Kong, the Communists would have been put in their place.
i highly doubt it. last time i check chinese satisfy rate for its government it was pretty high. this is mainly due to improving economic and living standard. as long as china improve its citizen living standard, people won't overthrown the government.
 

Virendra

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i highly doubt it. last time i check chinese satisfy rate for its government it was pretty high. this is mainly due to improving economic and living standard. as long as china improve its citizen living standard, people won't overthrown the government.
If you don't mind, who released this "Chinese Satisfy Rate" statistics. The CCP Government itself ?
 

Ray

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No the statistics must have been released by ULLU.

United Left Leaning Union!

S002W may be a member of this Union, but then he is also in close touch with the CCP.

For all we know ULLU maybe a front for CCP.
 

Ray

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That is because of a contrived electoral system that weighs heavily for the Mainland Communist Govt.

Even so, inspite of the constitutional shenanigans, 1/3 is still with the Democratic chaps and so the Communist proteges will remain hamstrung! ;)

Divided democrats hold key minority in HK polls

HONG KONG: Hong Kong's democrats yesterday retained their critical legislative veto over constitutional amendments after an election dominated by mass protests over perceived interference from mainland China. The final official count after Sunday's vote showed democratic candidates gaining four seats in the Asian financial centre's Legislative Council, while pro-Beijing parties boosted their representation by six seats.

The assembly expands from 60 to 70 seats for the next four-year term under changes meant to make it more representative. Pro-democrats hold only 27 seats even though they won some 60 percent of the popular vote, while the establishment camp won 43 seats thanks to an electoral system that is tilted in favour of big business groups and vested interests.

The pro-Beijing Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB) is the strongest force with 13 seats. Turnout was a near record of around 53 percent, fuelled by protests against a plan to introduce mandatory Chinese patriotism classes that forced the government into an election-eve policy climbdown. "We were unsure about the impact from the national education issue"¦ Fortunately, despite the high voter turnout, we still won," DAB chairman Tam Yiu-chung told reporters.

Tensions have also been brewing over corruption, the yawning gap between rich and poor, soaring property prices fuelled by wealthy mainlanders and the strains on public services from millions of mainland tourists. The democrats' minority bloc means that the executive-under a leader who is chosen by a 1,200-strong committee packed with pro-establishment business leaders-will not be able to force through undemocratic amendments.

But mainstream democrats lamented their failure to turn the rising anti-Beijing sentiment into more significant electoral gains. They blamed deep divisions within the democratic camp and the rising popularity of radical groups that want the immediate implementation of full democracy, rather than the slower, consensus-driven approach advocated by mainstream parties.

The best-known pro-democracy party lost two seats despite the expanded number on offer, prompting chairman Albert Ho to resign and deliver an emotional apology to the party faithful. "For the serious failure in this election I have to accept full political responsibility as the chairman of the Democratic Party," Ho said after bowing before the television cameras at a press conference.

He said Hong Kong people had become "increasingly impatient" with the pro-Beijing government and a complicated electoral system that reserves almost half the legislature for mainly pro-Beijing elites. "I think a lot of voters have decided to choose some people who "¦ play a much more aggressive role in the Legislative Council," he said.

Pro-democracy lawmaker Ronny Tong, from the Civic Party, said: "This is a dismal performance (for the pro-democracy camp). We paid a high price." The final count means the Democratic Party shares its status as the biggest pro-democracy party in the legislature with the Civic Party, which also won six seats. The radical anti-Beijing People Power party added one seat to its previous tally of two, while the equally radical League of Social Democrats held on to its single seat with the return of maverick lawmaker "Long Hair" Leung Kwok-hung.

The election was seen as a test of popular support for the pro-Beijing government, and by extension for the mainland authorities' hold on the city 15 years after Hong Kong reverted to Chinese rule as a semi-autonomous territory. Surveys show satisfaction with the Communist Party's performance in governing China is at its lowest point since the 1997 handover.

Beijing has promised universal suffrage for Hong Kong's next leadership election in 2017, and by 2020 for the legislature, but democrats are preparing for a fight amid fears the mainland will try to veto candidates. Hong Kong Institute of Education political analyst Sonny Lo said Beijing should be "alarmed" that 60 percent of Hong Kong people rejected pro-establishment candidates. "If Hong Kong was to democratise into one big constituency in which citizens will be able to cast their votes, democrats will gain the majority," he said. – AFP
Divided democrats hold key minority in HK polls | Kuwait Times
 

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