Liaoning (Varyag) - Chinese Aircraft Carrier

SexyChineseLady

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Because our claim to Naval prowess and military prowess does not rest on a set of internet videos. We are not like PRC. Indian military has proven itself in combat you wombat. We do not need to show the world that we can operate carriers by using propaganda videos like you do.
I think the actual answer is the Indian state is simply too poor to operate their carrier much and the MIG-29K jars its internals loose every time it lands. The Indian Navy itself says the MIG needs to be recalibrated after each landing.

I did find a lot more videos of the MIG-29K in these kinds of things:



 

Safir

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the main problems with Indian navy are that they have never operated newly built sophisticated modern aircraft carriers, all they had and are having are second hand, decades-old, obsolete aircraft carriers, which stand no chance in a modern maritime war.
there was a report in 2007 that You had bought 4 AC landing systems from Russia, when not disclosed, out of these 4 it is estimated that in type 001a you have fitted one of these. This clearly means you are assembling the AC not designing it.
 

Adioz

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I think the actual answer is the Indian state is simply too poor to operate their carrier much and the MIG-29K jars its internals loose every time it lands. The Indian Navy itself says the MIG needs to be recalibrated after each landing.
And you think these problems will persist with INS Vikrant (IAC-1) as well? BTW, what about your recent quest of a new carrier borne fighter? J-15 not good enough? :rofl:

I did find a lot more videos of the MIG-29K in these kinds of things:
So you are intent on judging the worth of a professional military force based on the number of videos they put out? PRC propaganda machine has trained you well. You are a nice little ant.

Edit: At least the problems our country faces get enough free press. The problems of PRC are such that the supreme authorities decide what problems to let the people know and what not to highlight.
 
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Armand2REP

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Thsts a disingenuous argument mate. Length and height are metrics that hardly matter when parking jets on deck. Even if Kuznetsov switched to an all Mig 29K airwing, it would still carry the exact same number of airframes because the Su27k/J15 has a SMALLER deck footprint than the Mig29.

How did you factor in EFFECTVE wing loading into your "10% lower" figure, considering that the Flanker has canards, large LERX's and considerable amounts of body lift? How can a jet with higher wing loading have a LOWER minimum airspeed

But I guess the proof is in the pudding. The only navy to operate both airframes on a war footing flew more A2G sorties with legacy Su33's upgraded with SVP 24 and KAB 500M than it did with the Mig29... The Su33 even produced more CAP sorties from Kuznetsov than the Mig did.
Those metrics matter plenty when you are parking them in the hanger deck where they get serviced and stored during heavy sea states. The deck footprint is irrelevant for long term operations. You can't leave them on the deck in heavy sea states so you would have to disengage from a combat zone over heavy weather or fly off the ones stored on deck so they don't become casualties of sea water.

How I figure wing loading is the same as everyone across the world figures it... except you.



You don't get to make up a wing loading formula that doesn't exist just to fit your absurd argument.

Canards are effective for high wing loading situations, they are not gaining enough airspeed to be useful in takeoff which is why they are left parallel at launch so they do not destablise the airflow of the wing on takeoff.

The proof is in the pudding which is why Russia ordered the MiG-29K to replace the Su-33. Of course the Su-33 provided more CAPs than the MiG, they took twice as many Flankers but they still had the same crash ratio, one of each. If the CdG lost two aircraft during every deployment we wouldn't have any left. If you count India/Russia MiG vs Russia/China Su-33 and clones the MiGs are doing far better.
 

Pinky Chaudhary

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Really?

How come there are far, far, far more videos of J-15 launching and landing from the Liaoning than MIG-29K from the Vikramaditya?

In fact, it was very hard for me to find even two videos of the Indian MIG doing carrier stuff.

How do you Indians get that “experience” when you fly so little?




SO now what Indian Navy should do is to make a video compilation of every carrier landing it has ever done to please you chinks..???.. LOL...You are a new kid in the town while Indian Navy has used CBGs in combat much before. We regularly trains wuth USN which is a carrier superpower, that should give you an idea.
 

lcafanboy

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Really?

How come there are far, far, far more videos of J-15 launching and landing from the Liaoning than MIG-29K from the Vikramaditya?

In fact, it was very hard for me to find even two videos of the Indian MIG doing carrier stuff.

How do you Indians get that “experience” when you fly so little?




There's an old saying EMPTY VESSELS MAKE MORE NOISE. That's exactly is the case with chinese propoganda videos, Indian Navy operated carriers for last more than 50 years both catapult and ski jump no need to blow trumpet showing videos to prove capabilities.

Your porki army friends know how they had to surrender with 93000 soldiers when ins Vikrant ripped them apart.... Dhaka, Cox bazaar all were bombed by fighters launched from catapult launch INS Vikrant...

Mind you Vikrant was 18000 tonnes displacement with 2nd generation fighters but now INS Vikramaditya is more than 45000 and new ins Vikrant 40000 tonnes with 4.5 gen fighters mig29k and may be rafale M a huge capabilities jump all taken by Indian Navy naturally with out hoolla hooping like chinese...
 

J20!

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Those metrics matter plenty when you are parking them in the hanger deck where they get serviced and stored during heavy sea states. The deck footprint is irrelevant for long term operations. You can't leave them on the deck in heavy sea states so you would have to disengage from a combat zone over heavy weather or fly off the ones stored on deck so they don't become casualties of sea water.

How I figure wing loading is the same as everyone across the world figures it... except you.



You don't get to make up a wing loading formula that doesn't exist just to fit your absurd argument.

Canards are effective for high wing loading situations, they are not gaining enough airspeed to be useful in takeoff which is why they are left parallel at launch so they do not destablise the airflow of the wing on takeoff.

The proof is in the pudding which is why Russia ordered the MiG-29K to replace the Su-33. Of course the Su-33 provided more CAPs than the MiG, they took twice as many Flankers but they still had the same crash ratio, one of each. If the CdG lost two aircraft during every deployment we wouldn't have any left. If you count India/Russia MiG vs Russia/China Su-33 and clones the MiGs are doing far better.
Doubling down on the absurdity? The Kuznetsov class's hanger deck was built to acomodate the Flanker's height son:



In Vikramaditya's case, the original Gorshkov was built to accommodate Yak 38's, an aircraft the size of a large helicopter. Vikramaditya could never have operated the Su27K simply because it has an island in the middle of its flight deck. Operating the Flanker at any significant sortie rate would have been a disaster waiting to happen. They barely have enough space with the smaller Mig 29K.

That's an indictment of the Kiev class. The Kuznetsov was built as an actual carrier capable of generating higher sortie rates than the Kiev heli carriers/cruisers.

The proof really is in the pudding. If the Mig really was the "the better choice for a carrier based fighter" why would the Russian Navy take twice as many legacy Su33's into its first war time deployment? I mean the Su 33 "can barely take off with any serious loads" but the Russian Navy deployed twice as many Su33's as the Mig and carried out twice as many sorties with the "less capable fighter" according to u.

The Russian Navy has 24 Mig 29Ks.... Why depend on the20+ year old Su27K airframes over their brand new Migs? It's not like the Migs land so fast and hard that they need to be recaliberated after each landing right?

Nice obsfucation mate. The ditching of both those airrcraft was due to a fault with Kuznetsov's arrestor gear. The jets simply ran out of fuel. Both crashes were well documented events.

I dont make things up mate, thats your forte. The Su27K's LERX's and canards are credited with giving that aircraft a slower minimum airspeed than the Mig 29K, translating to lower/safer landing speeds on deck.

Perhaps the most important feature of the Su-27K/Su-33 are the enlarged LERX/canards which increase the available body lift of the aircraft, and the centre of pressure forward thus enhancing achievable pitch rates. The Su-27 series shares with the F-14 series a large body lift capacity resulting from the wide fuselage tunnel - as a result the aircraft's effective wing loading is much lower than that of aircraft with different configurations. This is reflected in superb high alpha handling and sustained turn rates. The enlarged LERX/canards migrated to a range of other Flanker variants, including the Su-35, Su-37 and production Su-30MKI.
 
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SexyChineseLady

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SO now what Indian Navy should do is to make a video compilation of every carrier landing it has ever done to please you chinks..???.. LOL...You are a new kid in the town while Indian Navy has used CBGs in combat much before. We regularly trains wuth USN which is a carrier superpower, that should give you an idea.
The Indian don’t have do anything it is not capable of.

The US Navy has SOOOOOO MANY videos on carrier landings. But Indian Navy has nearly none. The US Navy has more to prove? LOL

The videos are just evidence. The J-15 launches and lands on the Liaoning in frequent fashion and it is proven by the videos. The lack of videos for the MIG-29K flying from the Vikramaditya is proof that the Indian Navy don’t actually operate their carrier very often.

You can call me racial slurs all you want but your big talk about “experience” is not backed up by any visual evidence.
 

Pinky Chaudhary

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The Indian don’t have do anything it is not capable of.

The US Navy has SOOOOOO MANY videos on carrier landings. But Indian Navy has nearly none. The US Navy has more to prove? LOL

The videos are just evidence. The J-15 launches and lands on the Liaoning in frequent fashion and it is proven by the videos. The lack of videos for the MIG-29K flying from the Vikramaditya is proof that the Indian Navy don’t actually operate their carrier very often.

You can call me racial slurs all you want but your big talk about “experience” is not backed up by any visual evidence.
Well you could have founded several videos of Mig 29 k carrier landing on his very thread if you wanted to... The fact that you are even trying to prove your silly logic proves that you are nothing but a racist CPC troll.
 

nimo_cn

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LOL... These decades old carriers ensures the destruction of enemy in case of war, remember how we fucked your ally porkistan in 1971, even today porkis shit their pants upon hearing the name of INS Vikrant. We have much more experience than you guys in operating CBGs in which you are never going to catch up.
your operating experience with 50s era AC does not add to capability in 21th century
 

SexyChineseLady

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Well you could have founded several videos of Mig 29 k carrier landing on his very thread if you wanted to... The fact that you are even trying to prove your silly logic proves that you are nothing but a racist CPC troll.
If I were a racist troll I would be doing it in an Indian carrier thread not a Chinese one. The only racist trolls in this thread are Indians who throw racial slurs around when I ask for visual evidence of this big talk about Indian “experience” (in a thread about the Chinese Liaoning.)

There are many, many videos of the J-15 launching and landing on the Liaoning. There are many, many, many, many videos of F-18s operating off USN carriers. There are very few videos of Indian MIG-29K launching and landing on the Vikramaditya.

And we know the reasons why there are so few videos — the Indian navy has a limited budget so very few deployment of the carrier, the Vikramaditya itself is in refit six-months at a time and the MIG-29K is dangerously fragile as a carrier aircraft that needs to be “re-calibrated” after each time it lands (“re-calibrating” is just a polite way of saying “holy crap, the aircraft is dangerously full of loose parts and instruments” after each landing.)
 
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J20!

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Liaoning seems to be getting pretty thorough maintenance whilst in dry dock. Recent pictures show that her non-skid deck coating is being replaced:



I think the last time we saw her deck getting a zinc chromate primer for a non-skid surface being applied was in 2006 right after her original refit started:

 

Kshithij

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one thing i admire Indian bureaucracy is that no one gets punished for delaying the programme for so long, those who made decision in the first place and those who oversee the progress are just fine even though it is behind schedule for like a decade. simply marvelous.
It is not bureaucracy but lack of natural resource and its consequence. India has limited resources and as a result foreign pressures exist for foreign resources. Also, due lack of military emphasis in the past due to overemphasis on nonviolence, things in technology got backseat.

LOL... These decades old carriers ensures the destruction of enemy in case of war, remember how we fucked your ally porkistan in 1971, even today porkis shit their pants upon hearing the name of INS Vikrant. We have much more experience than you guys in operating CBGs in which you are never going to catch up.
Porkis were supported by USA carrier in 1971. Porkies will always be afraid of India. Let us not bring filths like porkies in every discussions. Bringing Pakistan only lowers the level of discussion and creates false impression on Pakistanis that India give importance to them.

I think the actual answer is the Indian state is simply too poor to operate their carrier much and the MIG-29K jars its internals loose every time it lands. The Indian Navy itself says the MIG needs to be recalibrated after each landing.

I did find a lot more videos of the MIG-29K in these kinds of things:



Funding is irrelevant as India has had aircraft carriers since 1960s and flew lots of planes from the carriers. China has got carriers only in 2010 and hence no matter what funding is for chinese, India has had more experience in carrier operations and flight take off and landing.

Don't tell lies to justify anything. India does not have selfie habit of posting videos and hence does not unnecessarily post more videos than needed

The Indian don’t have do anything it is not capable of.

The US Navy has SOOOOOO MANY videos on carrier landings. But Indian Navy has nearly none. The US Navy has more to prove? LOL

The videos are just evidence. The J-15 launches and lands on the Liaoning in frequent fashion and it is proven by the videos. The lack of videos for the MIG-29K flying from the Vikramaditya is proof that the Indian Navy don’t actually operate their carrier very often.

You can call me racial slurs all you want but your big talk about “experience” is not backed up by any visual evidence.
USA is irrelevant here. Just because others have the habit of standing infront of the mirror entire day or keeps taking selfies does not mean it is a good practice.
 

J20!

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Liaoning is getting a comprehensive refit. Whilst her flight deck is being recoated her aft aviation observation deck is being remodelled to match the Type 002 carrier currently on trials:



 

Hari Sud

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Liaoning is getting a comprehensive refit. Whilst her flight deck is being recoated her aft aviation observation deck is being remodelled to match the Type 002 carrier currently on trials:



Pardon me for my ignorance!!! , what do all these upgrades do the general operation and lethality of this AC.
 

Armand2REP

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Pardon me for my ignorance!!! , what do all these upgrades do the general operation and lethality of this AC.
One must examine the totality of the situation. The J-15 has been deemed unsafe for operations due to its high crash rate so a replacement is desperately being studied. The limited endurance of the vessel limits it to a few weeks of operation before it must return to port for extensive maintenance. It does not matter what upgrades they put on the vessel when it is incapable of carrying out combat operations.
 

J20!

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Pardon me for my ignorance!!! , what do all these upgrades do the general operation and lethality of this AC.
Operating aircraft off of the Liaoning informed their decision to redesign the aft facing aviation bridge (pri fly) from the original Soviet layout.

If they're remodelling the Liaoning (at significant cost) to reflect the changes made to the refined Type 002 design then the modification must significantly improve flight operations.

I wouldn't call re applying a non skid surface coat to the flight deck an "uprade". After 6 years of operations and qualifying new pilots, its a necessary maintenance measure. There is probably signifact internal refit work being done internally as well, but of course we won't get pictures of that anytime soon.
 
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Jackd

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What is the status of development of CATOBAR tech as well as nuclear powered AC? China
 

J20!

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What is the status of development of CATOBAR tech as well as nuclear powered AC? China
A catobar capable version of the J15 has been flying since 2015:



And it has been tested off both the steam catapult and EMALS rig installed at the J15's home base; the Huangdicun naval air base:



As to development of CVNs, there are rumours circulating in Chinese military observer circles that both the CATOBAR carriers being assembled at JCNX and Dailan shipyard are nuclear powered. But as with any rumour, I'd take those rumours with huge grains of salt.
 

J20!

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Dated footage of J15's and a Z9D SAR heli performing night time take-off's and landings off of Liaoning:

 

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