LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Azaad]

Taking all that account, I don't see MK2 getting into production before 2032!!

LSP will commence earlier as I wrote before. Likely around 2028-29.

 

[dumdumdum]

I think we are missing the big picture here.

As I see it, there has been a long running "who blinks first" game going on between IAF & Government. Modi Sarkar has refused to order new foreign aircraft until IAF shows greater appetite for Tejas Mk1A, MK2 etc. We have already seen how current Air Chief tried to pressurize government by usual chest beating about falling squadron strength, need for more foreign aircrafts etc.
IAF has come to realize now that such pressure tactics are not going to work & they have to agree for more Tejas. I am sure, now that they have agreed for 100 more MK1A and are showing greater appetite for MK2, we will quickly see follow on Rafale orders from the government.

 

[MirageBlue]

How many aircrafts your Manmohan had ordered during his 10 years tenure?? Manmohan blabbered thousands of odd things during his tenure but nothing reached to its fruition during his tenure.

It’s like saying Nehru established ISRO (Which is a lie though) but Jinnah also established SUPARCO before Nehru so if dreaming alone is criteria for an achievement then Jinnah was more visionary then Nehru.

There is almost Zero achievement achieved by Maun Mohan Singh. He was no more than a fine quality slave.

Complete lie! Manmohan Singh hardly uttered a word. And his defence minister, AK Anthony uttered words that hardly anyone could understand. And between them they ensured that no new fighters were bought except for follow on orders for Su-30MKIs.

 

[MirageBlue]

I think we are missing the big picture here.

As I see it, there has been a long running "who blinks first" game going on between IAF & Government. Modi Sarkar has refused to order new foreign aircraft until IAF shows greater appetite for Tejas Mk1A, MK2 etc. We have already seen how current Air Chief tried to pressurize government by usual chest beating about falling squadron strength, need for more foreign aircrafts etc.
IAF has come to realize now that such pressure tactics are not going to work & they have to agree for more Tejas. I am sure, now that they have agreed for 100 more MK1A and are showing greater appetite for MK2, we will quickly see follow on Rafale orders from the government.

I think it is more than that.

The IAF has now got 2 squadrons of Tejas in service and can see their and judge the capabilities of the Tejas through their own pilots, technicians and personnel. It is no longer just seeing NFTC deputed IAF pilots flying prototypes while squadron deputed IAF pilots get to watch from the sidelines.

It has been flown by TACDE pilots, among the best in the IAF, who try to figure out or validate the best tactics for the Tejas fleet. It has flown DACT against all other IAF fighters, it has participated in exercises in India and abroad. Indeed it has excelled in internal exercises, scoring the best A2G scores at Exercise Iron Fist.

the IAF has data on hand as to how good the Uttam Mk1 AESA and the Elta 8222 SPJ as well as the indigenous ASPJ is, has all the data regarding the new digital RWR. Maintenance turn-around times are being improved, which was a grouse earlier.

This makes a BIG difference to how an organisation views a product. Working with the product day in and out, knowing the potential or lack of it.

The experience of the 2 Tejas squadrons, plus the fact that the IAF can ask for ALMOST any weapon to be integrated with the Tejas and it gets done within a reasonable time frame and a very very reasonable cost, that is a huge plus!

Take for instance AASM Hammer integration. Mooted less than 1.5 years ago and now it has already been tested. Going forward, a whole series of indigenous weapons are also lined up including NR-ARM, SAAW, Rudram 1 and 2 and then Brahmos NG.

Regarding the Rafale, the hope is that the IAF has brain-stormed and realized that the most pragmatic option is to wait till 2024 elections, dump the MRFA and go in for 74-90 Rafales in a G2G contract built in India along with 26 Rafale Ms. Prior to the 2024 elections there won't be any forward movement on Rafales for the IAF.

 

[Blademaster]

40 tejas mk1 were ordered by manmohan Singh government, not Modi government bro

No they were not. The order was not inked until Modi came into power.

 

[Blademaster]

Additional Mk-1a are being ordered keeping the on going situation with China in mind , in addition to the 2 front scenario. Otherwise 100 additional nos don't make any sense ( 50 nos do ) since it'd eat into the Mk-2 quantities besides upsetting the budget for the MRFA possibly affecting those quantities as well.

I disagree. Ordering more Tejas will stimulate the domestic defense industry and encourage more numbers in the future. This is very good news.

 

[Blademaster]

HAL has set up 3.5 lines. They claim they can mfg anywhere between 36-40 Mk-1a per annum. The excess capacity could well be to cater to exports or in anticipation of further orders for the IAF in a time bound manner . In any case I don't think even with additional nos being ordered ( be they 50 or 100 ) the T/L for mfg Mk-1a would exceed 2030.

Full scale production of the Mk-2 isn't expected to commence before 2032 at the earliest. Could well be delayed by a year or 2.

That answer your own question why IAF decided to go for more than 100 Mk1a LCAs.

 

[johnj]

Additional Mk-1a are being ordered keeping the on going situation with China in mind , in addition to the 2 front scenario. Otherwise 100 additional nos don't make any sense ( 50 nos do ) since it'd eat into the Mk-2 quantities besides upsetting the budget for the MRFA possibly affecting those quantities as well.

May be just opposite. all LCA to counter PAF, which help IAF to use majority of mki and all rafale against China.
Its like single engine vs single engine and dual engine vs dual engine,
LCA MK1A can easily handle all PAF jets including F16 and J10 and heavy drones. the major two advantage of J10 are pl15e and irst, lca equipped with litening pod, astra mk2 and asraam will help to handle PAF J10

 

[kamaal]

You fight air battle with PAF or PLAAF, you need AWACs, IAF has completely missed it's target in this department.

 

[NutCracker]

No they were not. The order was not inked until Modi came into power.

20 IOC Deal was signed in 2006 ,
20 FOC deal signed in 2010 .

But first IOC itself was delivered after 10 years in 2016 during Modi tenure.

including lazy ass DRDO-HAL clowns, This is the kind of rot, Modi had to deal with during initial days .

How shamelessly such things were being said while in western front Pakistan was inducting JF17 at rapid speed.

 

[NutCracker]

May be just opposite. all LCA to counter PAF, which help IAF to use majority of mki and all rafale against China.
Its like single engine vs single engine and dual engine vs dual engine,
LCA MK1A can easily handle all PAF jets including F16 and J10 and heavy drones. the major two advantage of J10 are pl15e and irst, lca equipped with litening pod, astra mk2 and asraam will help to handle PAF J10

Agreed 100% . All su30 and Rafale for chinese front.

AESA radar (maybe uttam) , IRST and jamming pod equipped Mig29upg as spearhead in western front till MK2 arrives.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

as a layman...we need 200 tejas mark 1a, 200 tejas mark 2 nd 100 rafale untill 2040. i dont think AMCA will production ready before 2040. ab chahe iske liye external loan lo, ya fir forex reserve se utha lo. we need atleast 100 rafale also. rafale is well known nd respected aircraft. uska ache number me airforce me hone ka ek phychological effect chinese pe padega hi. war start krne se pehle vo kai baar sochega. honestly i dont think chinese take su 30 mki nd tejas "very seriously". so tejas nd su 30 mki used as quantity nd rafale can use as quality (i m talking about chinese mindset, coz they dont take indian things much seriously, chahe humare tejas kitne bhi ache ho. just like many indians dont take chinese products too seriously).

 

[NutCracker]

How many mk1a would be delivered in Feb-March 2024?

I wish atleast 3... 2 se PR impact nahi hoga

Starting me trainer jets deliver honge. Cute si bubble canopy dekh ke PR impact vaise bhi nahi milega .

 

[NutCracker]

The 10 trainers in the 83 are mk1 standard & not mk1a

They will be delivered this yr only.

Nope, only 8 trainers till Feb 2024. HAL ko kya samjhdar kutte ne kata hai jo 3 saal ke pehle advance me delivery karenge .

 

[vishnugupt]

First of all, he is not my manmohan Singh

Secondly go and count the number of fighter aircraft ordered during his tenure, assuming you know how to count.

Thirdly, aren't you the moron who said Astra has been rejected for Tejas. Proven wrong just yesterday and still no humility I see, I am not talking about dreaming or establishing ISRO, but hard orders for aircraft. More fighter aircraft were ordered during manmohan time than Modi time. That's a fact. You crying like a little bitch won't change it.

However both of them ordered much less number of fighters than what was actually needed. The country will keep paying the price of this Dilly dallying for decades

I can see your pain now but Moun Mohan ordered something already in list. There open provision for follow up order of MKI and ofcourse Tejas Mk1 which also had provision to buy 40 aircraft. But unfortunately he did nothing his own.

Regarding Astra missile I had said. UN Generals will not buy Astra missile for Tejas MK1. If you check my post I claimed we will see Astra on LSP and Mk1a but not for mk1 . Now Astra missile requirements come for Mk1a not for mk1.

Situation as changed significantly since then after coming negative import list Hence UN Generals left with no other option hence have to order Astra now.

Maun Mohan ordered something which is already in pipeline still fail to induct Tejas Mk1 and left MMRCA in ruins.

I have been saying since day one. That Indias arm procurement is UN Generals driven until they will not give doable requirements none can buy them anything. For Su 30mki UN Generals had already given 230 jets requirement during 1996 but for indigenous they kept them in trials.

Don't be selective, Look at sheer size of defence procurement orders during Modi tenure that too indigenous.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

 

[Steven Rogers]

MK1A deal would be a shot in the arm for IAF to replace Mig 21 with advanced 4.5 Gen fighter jets. While the brute aerodynamic characteristics of Tejas are not that good, but in terms of electronics it is far ahead of anything we have with the IAF barring Rafale, even Su30MKI in some aspect( doesn't have AESA). So, MK1A is not just perforce substitute, but it would be our 3rd best jet behind Rafale and MKI. It would be capable of handling most of the PAF forces barring J10C.

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"Barring j10" it will facing the F16s and the J10s if deployed at the Western front.

 

[stat231]

Along with that it would be facing The JFs too, its not like only the tejas mk1a will be operating on the western front, also what option do we have until mk2 and amca? buy rafales for 20billion dollars?

"Barring j10" it will facing the F16s and the J10s if deployed at the Western front.

 

[rohit b3]

20 IOC Deal was signed in 2006 ,
20 FOC deal signed in 2010 .

But first IOC itself was delivered after 10 years in 2016 during Modi tenure.

including lazy ass DRDO-HAL clowns, This is the kind of rot, Modi had to deal with during initial days .
View attachment 219754
How shamelessly such things were being said while in western front Pakistan was inducting JF17 at rapid speed.

HAL aint perfect, but the IAF kept shifting the goal post. Tejas was granted IOC in 2011 and a reasonably sized order then itself would have ensured deliveries to begin by 2013-2014 in decent numbers.
Instead as usual, IAF started adding requirements...like they want Tejas to fly to the moon and back, have laser beams and stuff(jk , but u get the point) , and the IOC became IOC-1 and IOC-2 was granted only in 2013 . Following which production began. But with only an order of 16 IOC fighters, production rate was around 3-4 Tejas a year.

If i compare that with another fighter around that period, say the European Eurofighter Typhoon, it entered service in 2003 without having basic things like ground attack capabilities. However it was ordered in decent numbers and capabilities were later added and true swing role capability was achieved in 2007. Previously inducted fighters were upgraded.

Same with JF17, the fighter wasnt even integrated with a HMDS when inducted.

I have seen that Matheshwaran video. He was saying Tejas capabilities are similar to the Mig-21Bison's capabilities. Someone should look into his Swiss bank accounts.

 

[Fatalis]