LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Roland55]

Its been a while without retro pics..

 

[silverghost]

Picture to theek hai pare ye udega kab? Nowadays I wonder at the pace we are going how did we ever get the IAF combat fighter jets to 500+? Is it because the middle man has been eliminated and there is no desire amongst Babus to finalize G2G or Make in India deals? Reminds me of a couplet from a hindi movie:

अब तो उतनी भी मयस्सर नहीं मय-ख़ाने में
जितनी हम छोड़ दिया करते थे पैमाने में

 

[MirageBlue]

Tejas Mk1 FOC from No.18 'Flying Bullets' squadron with 3 drop tanks.

Pic credit- Shrey Chopra

 

[Gandaberunda]

 

[Fatalis]

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Malaysia didn't want Israeli radars. Raytheon keeps winning.

 

[MirageBlue]

Malaysia didn't want Israeli radars. Raytheon keeps winning.
View attachment 208087

The Raytheon PhantomStrike AESA is an air-cooled AESA. It will bring all the disadvantages that air cooled AESA radars have especially at higher altitudes where the density of air is much lower and hence the effectiveness of air cooling drops significantly. At it's peak, almost 50% drop in cooling happens at 36,000 ft.

But the FA-50 being a light fighter with a small radome (the FA-50's radome diameter is much smaller than that of the Tejas Mk1), electrical power, space is restricted and hence cooling is a major issue.

This is an inferior solution to the Tejas Mk1 with it's Elta 2052 or the Uttam Mk1 AESA, both of which use a liquid cooling system.

 

[rohit b3]

Facts about JF-17 & LCA Tejas #jf17thunder #lcatejas #pakistan - YouTube


First time ever, I would agree with a Pakistani.
They are literally not equipping Tejas with any weapons. Astra mk1 integration is "ongoing" for the last 2-3 years. SAAW integration no status? Asraam? No idea. JDAM/Hammer has been tested from Tejas yet? No update.

And another aspect - Confused aircraft with zero clarity of the market segment its targeting. I was shocked to see that Tejas was targeting the "Trainer/LIFT" segment and calling it "Best in class". So HAL thought that it can pitch a 35mil$-42mil$ fighter with Quadruplux Digital FBW ,90% Composites and that level of avionics and other systems ,etc as a LIFT?

 

[Azaad]

Facts about JF-17 & LCA Tejas #jf17thunder #lcatejas #pakistan - YouTube


First time ever, I would agree with a Pakistani.
They are literally not equipping Tejas with any weapons. Astra mk1 integration is "ongoing" for the last 2-3 years. SAAW integration no status? Asraam? No idea. JDAM/Hammer has been tested from Tejas yet? No update.

And another aspect - Confused aircraft with zero clarity of the market segment its targeting. I was shocked to see that Tejas was targeting the "Trainer/LIFT" segment and calling it "Best in class". So HAL thought that it can pitch a 35mil$-42mil$ fighter with Quadruplux Digital FBW ,90% Composites and that level of avionics and other systems ,etc as a LIFT?

Which is why you have the HLFT program , isn't it ? Besides the integration of all those weapons you've listed & more like the Brahmos NG will happen in the next 2-3 yrs.

Finally whenever you hear opinions about anything in India by a Paxtani , there's a very simple test you ought to apply. Going back upto 3 generations does the opinion giver have any in breeding in his / her family ? If the answer is not immediately obvious go to the default position which is yes given that inbreeding till date is 60-70% OFFICIALLY in Paxtan . Unofficially it's definitely higher.

What this means is that it's not exactly their fault when they opine the way they do about India coz their mental capacities are so limited , it's next to impossible for it to contain & process all the facts necessary to formulate what in the normal world is considered an informed opinion.

 

[MirageBlue]

@Roland55

 

[Roland55]

@Roland55

Any idea of who HAL sent to this meeting? last time i did recognize some, but now..nope.

As far as rumors or news, nothing, i wish this offer could contemplate help to revive our Mi-171s, HAL could finish the Overhauls and get them back operational (givent the Ukrainian conflict, all russian help ceased)

 

[MirageBlue]

Any idea of who HAL sent to this meeting? last time i did recognize some, but now..nope.

As far as rumors or news, nothing, i wish this offer could contemplate help to revive our Mi-171s, HAL could finish the Overhauls and get them back operational (givent the Ukrainian conflict, all russian help ceased)

There have been multiple meetings between the Indian Ambassador to Argentina, HAL officials and senior officials from the FAA, Argentinian Army as well as the Defence Minister and FAdeA officials.

HAL could help with overhaul of the Mi-171s I suppose.


In my opinion, if Argentina's budget issues and timelines are more long term then looking closely at the Tejas Mk2 would be a good idea. It's longer range and higher payload plus overall greater capabilities will make it a much more capable fighter for the FAA.

I do wonder what the F-414-INS6 deal with GE will include in terms of export clauses. I'm sure that the US will include clauses that require the US giving permission before any F-414 engines can be exported by India. But in general that should not impact Argentina too much.

 

[MonaLazy]

Delusions of grandeur?

Andhra Pradesh: India will soon have a ‘buffet spread’ of indigenously-built fighter aircraft to serve the needs of IAF, says the man behind Tejas

The LCA MK-II, a fifth generation fighter with more stealth features, and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, a fifth generation tactical deep-strike fighter, both of which are undergoing trials, will soon replace the existing ageing fleet such as the MiG, Mirage and Jaguar, says Kota Harinarayana

www.thehindu.com

Andhra Pradesh: India will soon have a ‘buffet spread’ of indigenously-built fighter aircraft to serve the needs of IAF, says the man behind Tejas
June 10, 2023 07:06 pm | Updated 07:07 pm IST - VISAKHAPATNAM


India is way ahead in systems design and digital technology, and Tejas is one of the best and sophisticated fourth generation fighter aircraft in the world, says Kota Harinarayana. | Photo Credit: V. RAJU
A few years from now, India will have its own set of indigenously-built fighter aircraft, and the spread of fighters will address all the needs of the Indian Air Force, right from the light and fast inceptor fighters to deep-strike fighter planes, says Kota Harinarayana, former programme director and chief designer of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is now called ‘Tejas’.

Speaking to The Hindu here on June 10 (Saturday), Dr. Harinarayana said that the country had already successfully launched and commissioned the LCA MK-I (Tejas MK-I), while LCA MK-II was undergoing advanced trials.

“While Tejas MK-I is a fourth generation fighter, the MK-II will be the fifth generation fighter with more stealth features,” Dr. Harinarayana said.

“We also have the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), for which trials are going on,” he added.

According to him, while MK-I is a highly sophisticated fighter, which is between the fourth and fifth generation fighter planes, MK-II will be the fifth generation fighter with more stealth features and deep-strike capabilities. The AMCA will be the fifth generation tactical deep-strike fighter aircraft.

“Once all are operational, we will have a ‘buffet’ spread of indigenously-built fighter aircraft, which will serve all the needs of the Indian Air Force. More importantly, they will replace the existing and ageing fleet such as the MiG 21, 27 and 29, and the deep-strike aircraft such as the Mirage-2000 and the Jaguar,” he said.

“While the successful development and commissioning of Tejas is one part of the success story, the main part is that the LCA programme has enabled the country to develop an ecosystem, which is on a par with any of the top aeronautical companies in the world. ”Kota HarinarayanaFormer chief designer of LCA

Tejas a game changer
“The Tejas is a game changer. While its successful development and commissioning is just one part of the success story, the main part is that the LCA programme has enabled the country to develop an ecosystem, which is on a par with any of the top aeronautical companies in the world. Today, our design systems are used in A-350 and A-380, and now we also have the infrastructure to develop the fifth and sixth generation aircraft,” Dr. Harinarayana explained.

Going down the memory lane, he said the need for developing indigenously-built fighter aircraft had come, as the IAF wanted to replace the ageing second generation MiG-21 fighters.

The specifications given by the IAF were of very high standards, and they wanted to leapfrog from the second generation fighter to the fourth generation one, he added.

“The government has made its intention clear by giving the in-principle nod to an initial funding of ₹500 crore and by setting up the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1983,” he observed.

For the first time, a “problem definition” had come from the government, and we were tasked to work on it.

The success rate at that time looked to be around 1%, but that was the challenge. We decided to pool resources, as it was not possible for one agency to build a highly sophisticated fourth generation fighter, without even having the basic infrastructure, he said.

Team-building
“Building a team was important, and hence we had decided to pool the best brains and resources from various agencies such as HAL, NAL, DRDO and ISRO. We had even roped in the best brains from the top IITs, who had come on a sabbatical, and there were a few who left lucrative jobs abroad to join us,” Dr. Harinarayana reminisced.

Tejas is the outcome of the cooperation between different organisations and departments, and the best minds to develop India’s first fourth generation aircraft, says Kota Harinarayana

“Tejas was the outcome of the cooperation between different organisations and departments, and the best minds to develop India’s first fourth generation aircraft, and the elements of passion, patriotism and teamwork had synergised,” said Dr. Harinarayana.

According to him, India is way ahead in systems design and digital technology, and Tejas is one of the best and sophisticated fourth generation fighter aircraft in the world that can match the standards of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning.

“Digitally, we are on par, but the F-35 is more stealthier,” he added.

‘Drones are the future’
Dr. Harinarayana also said that India “is now working to develop the sixth generation unmanned fighter aircraft and an Integrated Vehicle Health Management (IVHM) system. A few teams are already working on them, and very soon we will have them on the platter.”

He further said that drones would be the future, and there was a huge scope for startups in the sector.

 

[jai jaganath]

Delusions of grandeur?

Andhra Pradesh: India will soon have a ‘buffet spread’ of indigenously-built fighter aircraft to serve the needs of IAF, says the man behind Tejas

The LCA MK-II, a fifth generation fighter with more stealth features, and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, a fifth generation tactical deep-strike fighter, both of which are undergoing trials, will soon replace the existing ageing fleet such as the MiG, Mirage and Jaguar, says Kota Harinarayana

www.thehindu.com

Andhra Pradesh: India will soon have a ‘buffet spread’ of indigenously-built fighter aircraft to serve the needs of IAF, says the man behind Tejas
June 10, 2023 07:06 pm | Updated 07:07 pm IST - VISAKHAPATNAM


India is way ahead in systems design and digital technology, and Tejas is one of the best and sophisticated fourth generation fighter aircraft in the world, says Kota Harinarayana. | Photo Credit: V. RAJU
A few years from now, India will have its own set of indigenously-built fighter aircraft, and the spread of fighters will address all the needs of the Indian Air Force, right from the light and fast inceptor fighters to deep-strike fighter planes, says Kota Harinarayana, former programme director and chief designer of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is now called ‘Tejas’.

Speaking to The Hindu here on June 10 (Saturday), Dr. Harinarayana said that the country had already successfully launched and commissioned the LCA MK-I (Tejas MK-I), while LCA MK-II was undergoing advanced trials.

“While Tejas MK-I is a fourth generation fighter, the MK-II will be the fifth generation fighter with more stealth features,” Dr. Harinarayana said.

“We also have the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), for which trials are going on,” he added.

According to him, while MK-I is a highly sophisticated fighter, which is between the fourth and fifth generation fighter planes, MK-II will be the fifth generation fighter with more stealth features and deep-strike capabilities. The AMCA will be the fifth generation tactical deep-strike fighter aircraft.

“Once all are operational, we will have a ‘buffet’ spread of indigenously-built fighter aircraft, which will serve all the needs of the Indian Air Force. More importantly, they will replace the existing and ageing fleet such as the MiG 21, 27 and 29, and the deep-strike aircraft such as the Mirage-2000 and the Jaguar,” he said.

“While the successful development and commissioning of Tejas is one part of the success story, the main part is that the LCA programme has enabled the country to develop an ecosystem, which is on a par with any of the top aeronautical companies in the world. ”Kota HarinarayanaFormer chief designer of LCA

Tejas a game changer
“The Tejas is a game changer. While its successful development and commissioning is just one part of the success story, the main part is that the LCA programme has enabled the country to develop an ecosystem, which is on a par with any of the top aeronautical companies in the world. Today, our design systems are used in A-350 and A-380, and now we also have the infrastructure to develop the fifth and sixth generation aircraft,” Dr. Harinarayana explained.

Going down the memory lane, he said the need for developing indigenously-built fighter aircraft had come, as the IAF wanted to replace the ageing second generation MiG-21 fighters.

The specifications given by the IAF were of very high standards, and they wanted to leapfrog from the second generation fighter to the fourth generation one, he added.

“The government has made its intention clear by giving the in-principle nod to an initial funding of ₹500 crore and by setting up the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1983,” he observed.

For the first time, a “problem definition” had come from the government, and we were tasked to work on it.

The success rate at that time looked to be around 1%, but that was the challenge. We decided to pool resources, as it was not possible for one agency to build a highly sophisticated fourth generation fighter, without even having the basic infrastructure, he said.

Team-building
“Building a team was important, and hence we had decided to pool the best brains and resources from various agencies such as HAL, NAL, DRDO and ISRO. We had even roped in the best brains from the top IITs, who had come on a sabbatical, and there were a few who left lucrative jobs abroad to join us,” Dr. Harinarayana reminisced.

Tejas is the outcome of the cooperation between different organisations and departments, and the best minds to develop India’s first fourth generation aircraft, says Kota Harinarayana

“Tejas was the outcome of the cooperation between different organisations and departments, and the best minds to develop India’s first fourth generation aircraft, and the elements of passion, patriotism and teamwork had synergised,” said Dr. Harinarayana.

According to him, India is way ahead in systems design and digital technology, and Tejas is one of the best and sophisticated fourth generation fighter aircraft in the world that can match the standards of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning.

“Digitally, we are on par, but the F-35 is more stealthier,” he added.

‘Drones are the future’
Dr. Harinarayana also said that India “is now working to develop the sixth generation unmanned fighter aircraft and an Integrated Vehicle Health Management (IVHM) system. A few teams are already working on them, and very soon we will have them on the platter.”

He further said that drones would be the future, and there was a huge scope for startups in the sector.

I respect Kota sir but is it true what he is saying or interpretation mistakes
How come LCA mk-2 be 5th gen
How come LCA mk-2 or amca going trails when one isn't fully built and for one finds have not been approved
Never expected this from him

 

[astransastra]

Team-building
“Building a team was important, and hence we had decided to pool the best brains and resources from various agencies such as HAL, NAL, DRDO and ISRO. We had even roped in the best brains from the top IITs, who had come on a sabbatical, and there were a few who left lucrative jobs abroad to join us,” Dr. Harinarayana reminisced.

Some of above points like bringing best brains from top IITs from sabbatical etc, are more or less related to the concerns about the pay structure not being attractive enough to pull talent, something i have mentioned in PSU thread. So we are trying to build fighter planes by utilizing the hobby time of "Amateur" best brains of India? Sounds reasonable idea considering the meagre salaries on offer!

Deep Respect to the Design Engineer that Kota Sir is, but probably @ 80 years people can be (self)delusional, i would rather put the blame to Hindu new paper rather than Kota sir for trying to make some cheap journalistic attempts at chest thumping. For all the details Kota sir churned out, he is probably not even aware of the project status, and was just assuming how things should have been by 2023. So yea in a way probably he is right, if not for the delays caused by cabinet approvals for funding, IAF's push backs to adopt indigenous fighters, the project would have certainly reflected everything he spoke

 

[johnj]

Some of above points like bringing best brains from top IITs from sabbatical etc, are more or less related to the concerns about the pay structure not being attractive enough to pull talent, something i have mentioned in PSU thread. So we are trying to build fighter planes by utilizing the hobby time of "Amateur" best brains of India? Sounds reasonable idea considering the meagre salaries on offer!

Deep Respect to the Design Engineer that Kota Sir is, but probably @ 80 years people can be (self)delusional, i would rather put the blame to Hindu new paper rather than Kota sir for trying to make some cheap journalistic attempts at chest thumping. For all the details Kota sir churned out, he is probably not even aware of the project status, and was just assuming how things should have been by 2023. So yea in a way probably he is right, if not for the delays caused by cabinet approvals for funding, IAF's push backs to adopt indigenous fighters, the project would have certainly reflected everything he spoke

We can only pay best salaries if 1 rupee = 1 Euro or Indian GDP suppress EU gdp, till then better buy and assemble foreign ones. GoI offer best salaries for Engineers in India, plus job security & pensions etc - and others private sector can match - only drawbacks is lack of funds, test facilities.
IAF or all AF prefer best fighters, not vintage tech ones.

 

[silverghost]

We can only pay best salaries if 1 rupee = 1 Euro or Indian GDP suppress EU gdp, till then better buy and assemble foreign ones. GoI offer best salaries for Engineers in India, plus job security & pensions etc - and others private sector can match - only drawbacks is lack of funds, test facilities.
IAF or all AF prefer best fighters, not vintage tech ones.

The IT organizations are paying much higher salaries to their Engineers. If there is competition between orgs. to acquire the best Aeronautical Engineers their salaries will rise too. In a market-based economy, job security depends on how well your company does & how well you perform at your job. Both attributes drive excellence which is the need of the hour.

 

[johnj]

The IT organizations are paying much higher salaries to their Engineers. If there is competition between orgs. to acquire the best Aeronautical Engineers their salaries will rise too. In a market-based economy, job security depends on how well your company does & how well you perform at your job. Both attributes drive excellence which is the need of the hour.

First of all there is no engineers in IT sector, only contract workers, and they are getting 25k inr or less, sometime they make loss also.
Yes, Aeronautical Engineers gets best salaries but below IT sector and peanuts compered to CSE sector. note- Indi lacks the capability to absolve those high level Aeronautical Engineers
Engineers job securities depends on gov policies and monopoly.
A capitalist spend 100K $ to build a ecosystem for IT sector and spends billions in salaries, on the other hand capitalists spend billions $ to build a ecosystem for Engg sector and pays 100K in salaries
Note- a contract engineers gets 20k to 50k in ISRO and ISRO engineers gets 1l to 2.5l pm
FYI- 25 years ago when a gov engineer retires they hardly saves anything, means retires with a house and very little savings and forced to do other jobs. Now gov employees below engineer acquire new house and having a car before a decade. In simple, olden days gov engager salaries very low and low compared to private sector, but today gov engineers getting huge salaries, very better compared to Private sector. There is no innovation in gov engineers sector now a days, jut developing old/vintage tech but in olden days there was a lots of innovations, but gov discouraged all in favored of foreign tech. No Gov engineers consider giving up their jobs for foreign engineering jobs, but they give up their for jobs in foreign low level IT sector jobs. Majority of top Engineer in India consider coding/MBA now a days.
IT sector creates multiple millionaires and billionaires every year, but engineering ........
Don't compare the salaries of engineer vs IT pro vs MBA vs LDC - they were doing entirely different works
Private sector[mainly foreign} pays 1.5l and above for engineers working in future tech[R&D&D] & new innovations but below IT sector with out job securities or pension.
DRDO, ISRO, HAl, ADA, DPSU offer best engineering opportunities and better salaries, but only issue is funds, GOI never give funds on time, and funds were too low to fully develop and complete the product

 

[silverghost]

First of all there is no engineers in IT sector, only contract workers, and they are getting 25k inr or less, sometime they make loss also.
Yes, Aeronautical Engineers gets best salaries but below IT sector and peanuts compered to CSE sector. note- Indi lacks the capability to absolve those high level Aeronautical Engineers
Engineers job securities depends on gov policies and monopoly.
A capitalist spend 100K $ to build a ecosystem for IT sector and spends billions in salaries, on the other hand capitalists spend billions $ to build a ecosystem for Engg sector and pays 100K in salaries
Note- a contract engineers gets 20k to 50k in ISRO and ISRO engineers gets 1l to 2.5l pm
FYI- 25 years ago when a gov engineer retires they hardly saves anything, means retires with a house and very little savings and forced to do other jobs. Now gov employees below engineer acquire new house and having a car before a decade. In simple, olden days gov engager salaries very low and low compared to private sector, but today gov engineers getting huge salaries, very better compared to Private sector. There is no innovation in gov engineers sector now a days, jut developing old/vintage tech but in olden days there was a lots of innovations, but gov discouraged all in favored of foreign tech. No Gov engineers consider giving up their jobs for foreign engineering jobs, but they give up their for jobs in foreign low level IT sector jobs. Majority of top Engineer in India consider coding/MBA now a days.
IT sector creates multiple millionaires and billionaires every year, but engineering ........
Don't compare the salaries of engineer vs IT pro vs MBA vs LDC - they were doing entirely different works
Private sector[mainly foreign} pays 1.5l and above for engineers working in future tech[R&D&D] & new innovations but below IT sector with out job securities or pension.
DRDO, ISRO, HAl, ADA, DPSU offer best engineering opportunities and better salaries, but only issue is funds, GOI never give funds on time, and funds were too low to fully develop and complete the product

"There are no engineers in the Information technology sector only contract workers", maybe your definition of the IT sector is different from mine. A principal member of the technical staff (PMTS) or a C(Consulting)MTS in a top company makes anywhere from 50 - 80 lakhs. I am pretty sure if one offers these kinds of salaries to R&D engineers in aerospace one will attract top talent from India & abroad. Yes, you won't get job security or pension but you will save money unless you decide to squander it all away.

 

[skunk works]

Salaries are unironically good. The problem is isn't most of our IT Sector just service and maintenance, and not real RAD?
Even if you offer salaries, is the RAD talent really there? Specially in aerospace, something not exactly 'common'?

"There are no engineers in the Information technology sector only contract workers", maybe your definition of the IT sector is different from mine. A principal member of the technical staff (PMTS) or a C(Consulting)MTS in a top company makes anywhere from 50 - 80 lakhs. I am pretty sure if one offers these kinds of salaries to R&D engineers in aerospace one will attract top talent from India & abroad. Yes, you won't get job security or pension but you will save money unless you decide to squander it all away.