LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[VIP]

I doubt it. We fell into the SU 30 MKI trap & faced a lot of maintenance, reliability & availability issues. Moreover, the Russian engines have 1/2 the life of the engines used in US & French fighter jets. Also, checkout even the Russian Air Force prefers SU 35 S over SU 57. We would be idiots to buy SU 57.

We are idiots.

 

[vishnugupt]

I doubt it. We fell into the SU 30 MKI trap & faced a lot of maintenance, reliability & availability issues. Moreover, the Russian engines have 1/2 the life of the engines used in US & French fighter jets. Also, checkout even the Russian Air Force prefers SU 35 S over SU 57. We would be idiots to buy SU 57.

From where you get these information?? Do you have direct lines from Kremlin or Pentagon?

 

[vidhwanshak]

From where you get these information?? Do you have direct lines from Kremlin or Pentagon?

I can't say about su-35 and su-37 but the availability of su-30MKI has always been in question. I fact, the CAG report of 2015 highlighted all this

India's Auditing Agency Punches Holes in Russian Sukhoi

India's autonomous auditing agency, Comptroller and Auditor General says the Russian-made SU30MKI aircraft suffer from poor serviceability.

www.defensenews.com

I can vouch for the authenticity. You can also find the CAG report online as well

 

[binayak95]

I can't say about su-35 and su-37 but the availability of su-30MKI has always been in question. I fact, the CAG report of 2015 highlighted all this

India's Auditing Agency Punches Holes in Russian Sukhoi

India's autonomous auditing agency, Comptroller and Auditor General says the Russian-made SU30MKI aircraft suffer from poor serviceability.

www.defensenews.com

I can vouch for the authenticity. You can also find the CAG report online as well

The Overhaul time for the AL31F is not half of GE/Safran/RR. Its 1/5. And its not just aircraft engines. The Zorya M15 on the Veer class missile boats (1241 RE) is 1500 hours. Max boost time is 250 hrs. HORRENDOUS figures. In comparison the LM 2500 gives 7500 to 8000 hours between overhauls (reason why thats the engine of choice on P17/P17A/Vikrant)

Same with the GE 404 on the Tejas.

 

[IndianHawk]

I can't say about su-35 and su-37 but the availability of su-30MKI has always been in question. I fact, the CAG report of 2015 highlighted all this

India's Auditing Agency Punches Holes in Russian Sukhoi

India's autonomous auditing agency, Comptroller and Auditor General says the Russian-made SU30MKI aircraft suffer from poor serviceability.

www.defensenews.com

I can vouch for the authenticity. You can also find the CAG report online as well

This was blamed on lack of spares maintened by HAL because iaf didn't funded them. Parikkar sorted it and availability increased significantly.

 

[IndianHawk]

The Overhaul time for the AL31F is not half of GE/Safran/RR. Its 1/5. And its not just aircraft engines. The Zorya M15 on the Veer class missile boats (1241 RE) is 1500 hours. Max boost time is 250 hrs. HORRENDOUS figures. In comparison the LM 2500 gives 7500 to 8000 hours between overhauls (reason why thats the engine of choice on P17/P17A/Vikrant)

Same with the GE 404 on the Tejas.

Russian engine as of now are generation behind western ones.

Good thing is that we are moving forward with Western origin enegine now mostly.

 

[vishnugupt]

I can't say about su-35 and su-37 but the availability of su-30MKI has always been in question. I fact, the CAG report of 2015 highlighted all this

India's Auditing Agency Punches Holes in Russian Sukhoi

India's autonomous auditing agency, Comptroller and Auditor General says the Russian-made SU30MKI aircraft suffer from poor serviceability.

www.defensenews.com

I can vouch for the authenticity. You can also find the CAG report online as well

Which aircrafts don't need maintenance and repair?? We have to Import spare parts from Russia to maintain and keep operational.

So how exactly this become fault of Su-30MKI if you don't maintain or repair due to whatever reason on the earth??

CAG nowhere said Su-30MKI is short of performance and never questioned it's reliability.

Reliability decrease in the sense of if you don't maintain or repair aircraft time to time.

This is biggest myth on DFI that Russian machine need more maintenance than Western. Actually opposite is true. If you wish you can check maintenance cost of Russian aircraft and western one.

 

[vidhwanshak]

Which aircrafts don't need maintenance and repair?? We have to Import spare parts from Russia to maintain and keep operational.

So how exactly this become fault of Su-30MKI if you don't maintain or repair due to whatever reason on the earth??

CAG nowhere said Su-30MKI is short of performance and never questioned it's reliability.

Reliability decrease in the sense of if you don't maintain or repair aircraft time to time.

This is biggest myth on DFI that Russian machine need more maintenance than Western. Actually opposite is true. If you wish you can check maintenance cost of Russian aircraft and western one.

Reports also talks about fault in fly by wire systems and radar warning receivers.
As for maintenance and spare parts, you must applaude whosoever signed that deal on our side. You want 272 of those jets and for spare parts you had to go and beg to the Russians, wo, amazing planning and execution.
Glad we sorted those issues, or else half of mki fleet would have to grounded because of ongoing Russian Ukraine war.

 

[vishnugupt]

Reports also talks about fault in fly by wire systems and radar warning receivers.
As for maintenance and spare parts, you must applaude whosoever signed that deal on our side. You want 272 of those jets and for spare parts you had to go and beg to the Russians, wo, amazing planning and execution.
Glad we sorted those issues, or else half of mki fleet would have to grounded because of ongoing Russian Ukraine war.

Actually Carrom board warriors inadvertently switch it off. IAF even managed to fail Fly by wire system of brand new Tejas.

Word "Maintenance and repair" doesn't exist in UN Generals dictionary. They always busy to buy New shinny toys.

Now tell me, IAF could have negotiated spares and parts contract with Sukhoi at time of Su-30mki deal but this deal infact was done in 2016 by Parrikar after lots of suffering and CAG's reports.

So who is to be blamed for lack of vision and poor planning? Ofcourse P. V Narsimha Rao.

 

[johnj]

What high technology can UK or EU give other than engine that India doesn't already have

Excluding engine[most important part] what high tech India developed so far ?

 

[binayak95]

Excluding engine[most important part] what high tech India developed so far ?

Avionics, Composite aerostructures, radars, EO sensors, SDRs, Mission Computers, Flight computers, Control Laws.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Excluding engine[most important part] what high tech India developed so far ?

1. AESA Radar
2. Radar Radome
3. EW Suite
4. RWR
5. Dual Color Missile Approach Warning System
6. Flight Control Computer (mission computer)
7. Fly-By-Wire and Fly-by-Optics (both software + hardware) Control Laws
8. IFF
9. Onboard Oxygen Generator
10. HUD
11. HMDS
12. Sensor Fusion Software
13. Automation Software (reduces pilot workload)
14. ETOS/DAS (Under developmental trials)
15. IRST
16. Diverterless supersonic inlet
17. Smart Sensors and Actuators
18. Advanced composites for AMCA's skin reducing RCS of the aircarft
19. Detailed study of RCS and RF analysis with required infrastructure in house.
20. SDR
21. Sat-comm
22. Network-centric capabilities
23. A vast array of weapons with no terms and conditions for usage
24. Metallurgy and press to fabricate necessary parts/sub-assemblies

 

[johnj]

Avionics, Composite aerostructures, radars, EO sensors, SDRs, Mission Computers, Flight computers, Control Laws.

Unfortunately UK & EU already developed and deployed those & India still catching up.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Unfortunately UK & EU already developed and deployed those & India still catching up.

Good for you guys but still except for engine their is not a lot EU can offer us.
As you said India is catching up hence no need to get these technology from EU.

 

[johnj]

1. AESA Radar
2. Radar Radome
3. EW Suite
4. RWR
5. Dual Color Missile Approach Warning System
6. Flight Control Computer (mission computer)
7. Fly-By-Wire and Fly-by-Optics (both software + hardware) Control Laws
8. IFF
9. Onboard Oxygen Generator
10. HUD
11. HMDS
12. Sensor Fusion Software
13. Automation Software (reduces pilot workload)
14. ETOS/DAS (Under developmental trials)
15. IRST
16. Diverterless supersonic inlet
17. Smart Sensors and Actuators
18. Advanced composites for AMCA's skin reducing RCS of the aircarft
19. Detailed study of RCS and RF analysis with required infrastructure in house.
20. SDR
21. Sat-comm
22. Network-centric capabilities
23. A vast array of weapons with no terms and conditions for usage
24. Metallurgy and press to fabricate necessary parts/sub-assemblies

UK & EU already developed/deployed/use in warfare those and building next gen{Hi} version & we still trying to build a complect jet with those.
There is a huge difference and again there is difference b/w Hi tech vs Lo tech and both share same things you mentioned.

 

[johnj]

Good for you guys but still except for engine their is not a lot EU can offer us.
As you said India is catching up hence no need to get these technology from EU.

And its depend on ADA & HAL, plus GoI. So the question is why 114 MMRCA <too late> ?[200 mk1a/b not a bad idea for defence until mk2 arrive for offensive]

 

[Dark Sorrow]

UK & EU already developed/deployed/use in warfare those and building next gen{Hi} version & we still trying to build a complect jet with those.
There is a huge difference and again there is difference b/w Hi tech vs Lo tech and both share same things you mentioned.

Collaboration between two or more countries when one or both of the conditions are true

1. Their is a financial limitation when either of the countries can't/won't independently develop, manufacture and use a technology
2. Their is a technological limitation when either of the countries can't/won't independently develop, manufacture and use a technology

In our case first case is not true as we can bankroll our R&D by ourselves.
Second condition is true of us when we talk about engine, rest we are confident we can do by ourselves.

In case we want to get a technological we always go to Israel. Their technology is second to none and comes with no strings attached.

If Israel has turbofan technology we would have collaborated with them as in case of Barak-8.
In Barak-8 we didn't have seeker technology which we got from Israel reset was done by us.

 

[IndianHawk]

UK & EU already developed/deployed/use in warfare those and building next gen{Hi} version & we still trying to build a complect jet with those.
There is a huge difference and again there is difference b/w Hi tech vs Lo tech and both share same things you mentioned.

Uk doesn't even have an aesa in eurofighter as of now.
EU doesn't have any stealth fighter jet program which may see induction before 2045 . They are not that advanced. USA is in different league.

 

[johnj]

Uk doesn't even have an aesa in eurofighter as of now.
EU doesn't have any stealth fighter jet program which may see induction before 2045 . They are not that advanced. USA is in different league.

That's why I used '&' and there is only France consider building, R&D complect weapon program. EU, UK work together. USA - not a top choice. UK developing next gen aesa sensor for eft, and not considering current option, excluding aesa, uk eft is the best in eu, similar to IAF rafale.

 

[sakalasiva]

UK & EU already developed/deployed/use in warfare those and building next gen{Hi} version & we still trying to build a complect jet with those.
There is a huge difference and again there is difference b/w Hi tech vs Lo tech and both share same things you mentioned.

Dude what you are expecting industry complex will grow overnight. Thanks to previous Govts policy of always import and never make attitude we lagged in defense industry considerably. Now when things are progressing you want to reset the development and again start importing. No nation will become super power with imported stuff.