LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Shuturmurg]

Angad singh (he is a researcher in defence and air power at ORF) on Indian Air force. Some of the key points :

1. China has reduced its disadvantage of operating air bases at high altitude in tibet, by increasing the lengths of runway, increasing number of runways and having large number of refuellers. So, aircrafts can take off with low fuel to reduce wait and refuel in air. They have also made hardened shelter tp protect aircrafts, however that also makes runways more vulnerable to damage by bombing, as aircrafts need full runway to take off.

2. India is seriously lacking refuellers.

3. Biggest positive for Indian airforce in next 5 years is that it will have indigenous weapons system (air to air and anti-radiation missiles + guided bombs). Will be a huge win in terms interoperability, since currently our current weapons are platform restricted.

4. Brahmos air launched version is a big win.

5. Will retire at least 10 squadrons till 2035 + we are already 10 squadrons short of 42 stated by air force. (4 squadron lca mk1a and 6 of mmrca 2.0 can fill that retirement gap). Will be bit of risk if we cancel mmrca 2.0 for mk2.

6. MMRCA 2.0 if it happens will be positive for domestic private aerospace industry as someone will be selected as partner to manufacture here.

7. HAL has turned a corner in last 8-9 years. Doing much better, involving private industry. Still not as efficient as private company, but trending in right direction.

8. OFB corporatization good. At least now it has a better organizational structure, however will take a long time for them to become efficient. Its just the beginning of that journey.

9. Tejas mk1a - there are some shortcomings from initial requirements (he mentions it cannot handle 9g, but a bit less), however airforce definitely sees a role for them in operation.

 

[India Super Power]

Angad singh (he is a researcher in defence and air power at ORF) on Indian Air force. Some of the key points :

1. China has reduced its disadvantage of operating air bases at high altitude in tibet, by increasing the lengths of runway, increasing number of runways and having large number of refuellers. So, aircrafts can take off with low fuel to reduce wait and refuel in air. They have also made hardened shelter tp protect aircrafts, however that also makes runways more vulnerable to damage by bombing, as aircrafts need full runway to take off.

2. India is seriously lacking refuellers.

3. Biggest positive for Indian airforce in next 5 years is that it will have indigenous weapons system (air to air and anti-radiation missiles + guided bombs). Will be a huge win in terms interoperability, since currently our current weapons are platform restricted.

4. Brahmos air launched version is a big win.

5. Will retire at least 10 squadrons till 2035 + we are already 10 squadrons short of 42 stated by air force. (4 squadron lca mk1a and 6 of mmrca 2.0 can fill that retirement gap). Will be bit of risk if we cancel mmrca 2.0 for mk2.

6. MMRCA 2.0 if it happens will be positive for domestic private aerospace industry as someone will be selected as partner to manufacture here.

7. HAL has turned a corner in last 8-9 years. Doing much better, involving private industry. Still not as efficient as private company, but trending in right direction.

8. OFB corporatization good. At least now it has a better organizational structure, however will take a long time for them to become efficient. Its just the beginning of that journey.

9. Tejas mk1a - there are some shortcomings from initial requirements (he mentions it cannot handle 9g, but a bit less), however airforce definitely sees a role for them in operation.

What's wrong in canceling mmrca 2 and adding it's nos to mk2 which will easily go above 250-300
Only I can see is capability gap wrt range payload single engine and electronics but if domestic industry gets such a large order then the advantages can be much more
But I might be wrong

 

[fire starter]

Just order the fucking rafales and smx 3.0 end this drama and delays in the name of mmrca 2.0 , p75I etc.

At the same time make sure whatever capability and TOT is required we get it seriously and absorb it unlike in the past.

 

[SARTHAK]

Just order the fucking rafales and smx 3.0 end this drama and delays in the name of mmrca 2.0 , p75I etc.

At the same time make sure whatever capability and TOT is required we get it seriously and absorb it unlike in the past.

last time i blamed iaf for delays i was answered by hvt sir

 

[SARTHAK]

see the conversation

 

[SARTHAK]

can anybody here elaborate the procurement process(to be complied in mrfa) to me here ,and explain why is iaf is not at fault in delays while procuring jets?

 

[India Super Power]

see the conversation

Kehna kya chahate hai???
So mmrca 2.0 doesn't exists and just media's imagination
Fuck we are being fooled from 2018
Shit man waste of time

 

[SARTHAK]

Kehna kya chahate hai???
So mmrca 2.0 doesn't exists and just media's imagination
Fuck we are being fooled from 2018
Shit man waste of time

he meant to say that project is still not sanctioned by govt. so delay is not iaf's fault,btw he is the most trusted source that we can talk to on twitter and also most respected one

 

[MonaLazy]

imagine the agility that is going to be there with MK2 Tejas

The canard movement is only +20° LEU (Leading Edge Up) to -30° LED (Leading Edge Down)- that's not a lot of deflection (even compared to Rafale & no comparison at all with the Gripen which has complete freedom of canard movement). I don't think Mk2 promises spectacular aerial aerobatics- its aerial performance should be only somewhat better than MK1/A perhaps meeting the STR & AoA as demanded in the original ASQR. But because of close-coupled canards, it will generate a lot more lift so will carry a huge payload, the full gamut of Indian/Russian/Israeli/Western weapons and be the goto plane of IAF.

tejas mk2 vs imported MRFA...only mk2 can be IAF workhorse from 2027 onwards

In full agreement!


Nambi Sir-
Question: Sir, are u sure Tejas MK2 will beat Rafale which is 2 engine aircraft with semi-stealth capability + 5th gen avionics + SPECTRA EW ??

My Answer: The Rafale first flew in 1986, and the Tejas Mk 2 will probably fly in 2026, Forty years later... I’m certain we can!

HVT Sir-
Big shoes to fit in.
Tejas Mk-2 will probably be more up-to-date than Rafale, when it enters service. It's really the TEDBF-like, twin-engine-cousin of Mk-2 that'll exceed the teering performance of Rafale.

yet u will always find shahid lateef types

Lateef hai lateefay sunaega! Don't take him seriously.

if we can only crack the engine technology in next 5 years...there will be no stopping us!

5 years is too steep! Even 10 years to a serially produced 110KN engine is a miracle from where we are today.

What's wrong in canceling mmrca 2 and adding it's nos to mk2 which will easily go above 250-300
Only I can see is capability gap wrt range payload single engine and electronics but if domestic industry gets such a large order then the advantages can be much more
But I might be wrong

Range- Double engined planes guzzle 40% more fuel than single-engined ones. Mk1/A does ~2000 km on internal and ~3100+ kms on 3 DTs. Mk2 is a full 1.4m longer than Mk1, with a smaller radome than Mk1/A- that means a lot more fuel! Range should not be a problem vs Rafale

Payload- 9+ tons (Rafale) vs 6.5 tons (Mk2)

electronics & avionics- may be

 

[SARTHAK]

The canard movement is only +20° LEU (Leading Edge Up) to -30° LED (Leading Edge Down)- that's not a lot of deflection (even compared to Rafale & no comparison at all with the Gripen which has complete freedom of canard movement). I don't think Mk2 promises spectacular aerial aerobatics- its aerial performance should be only somewhat better than MK1/A perhaps meeting the STR & AoA as demanded in the original ASQR. But because of close-coupled canards, it will generate a lot more lift so will carry a huge payload, the full gamut of Indian/Russian/Israeli/Western weapons and be the goto plane of IAF.



In full agreement!


Nambi Sir-
Question: Sir, are u sure Tejas MK2 will beat Rafale which is 2 engine aircraft with semi-stealth capability + 5th gen avionics + SPECTRA EW ??

My Answer: The Rafale first flew in 1986, and the Tejas Mk 2 will probably fly in 2026, Forty years later... I’m certain we can!

HVT Sir-
Big shoes to fit in.
Tejas Mk-2 will probably be more up-to-date than Rafale, when it enters service. It's really the TEDBF-like, twin-engine-cousin of Mk-2 that'll exceed the teering performance of Rafale.



Lateef hai lateefay sunaega! Don't take him seriously.



5 years is too steep! Even 10 years to a serially produced 110KN engine is a miracle from where we are today.

the impressive part is avionics that will go into tejas mk2 , rwr+ irmaws + radar +irst , sensor fusion and ncw enabled will make it a good fighter , one thing that i want to ask is that ,
will tejasmk2 uews have interferometer?
typhoon did not have interferometers in thier suite as a result they were not able to get a firing solution in a passive mode using rwr + infererometer , rafales have this in spectra , it was introduced latest tranche of typhoon

 

[Lonewolf]

The canard movement is only +20° LEU (Leading Edge Up) to -30° LED (Leading Edge Down)- that's not a lot of deflection (even compared to Rafale & no comparison at all with the Gripen which has complete freedom of canard movement). I don't think Mk2 promises spectacular aerial aerobatics- its aerial performance should be only somewhat better than MK1/A perhaps meeting the STR & AoA as demanded in the original ASQR. But because of close-coupled canards, it will generate a lot more lift so will carry a huge payload, the full gamut of Indian/Russian/Israeli/Western weapons and be the goto plane of IAF.

Genuine doubt .

Can you please explain how much canards move in gripen and how it affects airflow and overall agility , i know that it helps as airbrakes in 90° negative inclination (might be positive ,forgot convention ) , how it helps in positive inclination and ITR of plane

 

[Bleh]

The canard movement is only +20° LEU (Leading Edge Up) to -30° LED (Leading Edge Down)- that's not a lot of deflection (even compared to Rafale & no comparison at all with the Gripen which has complete freedom of canard movement). I don't think Mk2 promises spectacular aerial aerobatics- its aerial performance should be only somewhat better than MK1/A perhaps meeting the STR & AoA as demanded in the original ASQR. But because of close-coupled canards, it will generate a lot more lift so will carry a huge payload, the full gamut of Indian/Russian/Israeli/Western weapons and be the goto plane of IAF.

Agreed!.. MWF's canards emulate Kfir, La'vi etc. meant to generate huge lift to carry strike payload & without to much drag penalty. I read that due to existing cranked compoubd delta wings of LCA the added benefits will be limited.

Expect marginal improvements in sustained turn performance & possibly significantly better slow speed performance... maybe reduced turn radius.

3rd day's best till now! I mentioned before how crisp they've got. Eg: earlier i noticed he banked slowly after the pitch-back & blended into a turn. Now he comes down straight & does a sharp roll to bank & jerks into the turn.... Watch you'll see what i mean.

 

[arnab]

Agreed!.. MWF's canards emulate Kfir, La'vi etc. meant to generate huge lift to carry strike payload & without to much drag penalty. I read that due to existing cranked compoubd delta wings of LCA the added benefits will be limited.

Expect marginal improvements in sustained turn performance & possibly significantly better slow speed performance... maybe reduced turn radius.

ALSO...the road to AMCA goes thru MWF ! and the IAF that has ordered 4 squads of mk1A...has no justification of not inducting a better MWF in large numbers given the depleting squadron strength ... and also that nobody has 25 B USD for 114 MRFA...
even if the contract is signed by 2022 end, first deliveries will only come after 3 years assuming nobody shouts "SCAM"...a scenario which IAF is well versed with. by then it will be 2025-26 when MWF will near its certification from CEMILAC, not to mention other acquisitions like LCH, LUH, chinooks,etc will also have to be paid for...

ALSO...every OEM knows by now that this deal will be the last fighter deal that the cash-cow india is going to sign...they will want to keep a presence here...thus the 25 B price tag has to be sweetened with a deal for a engine JV as well...

 

[rohit b3]

Kehna kya chahate hai???
So mmrca 2.0 doesn't exists and just media's imagination
Fuck we are being fooled from 2018
Shit man waste of time

finally good morning. Something i have been saying for the last 8 years.

 

[THESIS THORON]

"Namaste Singapore! It's great to be here. Hope you are enjoying the show! Have a great day. The Indian is here!!"

That swag!!


Tejas display on day 3 Roaring Skies Singapore Airshow 2022

we should have send there someone who has better voice for commentary

btw, impressive performance

 

[THESIS THORON]

we should have send there someone who has better voice for commentary

btw, impressive performance

no seriously, we should have done that, the voice of commentator dampened things little bit

 

[SARTHAK]

i hope dcmaws made for tejas mk2 has this tech like ddm ng of rafale
"Thanks to the high-quality IR imagery produced by the DDM-NG sensor, many other applications can be foreseen on aircraft (Air Policing, Situational Awareness, Targeting, Assistance to navigation, Air Patrol, Anti-collision, “IR Black-Box”,…). DDM-NG can also be installed on wide-bodied aircraft, helicopters or ground vehicles. " this is excerpt from mbda website notice the world "targeting" although dcmaws by drdo is a dual band ir system

 

[MonaLazy]

how much canards move in gripen and how it affects airflow and overall agility,

From quora:

.. so it's not an absolute requirement but a nice to have in the fighter pilot's tool kit- offering agility at a low aerodynamic cost.

Gripen's control surfaces during all phases of flight:

Spoiler: source

Gripens canards in action:

.. & during landing:

i know that it helps as airbrakes in 90° negative inclination (might be positive ,forgot convention ) , how it helps in positive inclination and ITR of plane

+ deflection is LEU, - is LED

For a fairly comprehensive analysis please refer here, it is quite something:

Dassault Rafale analysis

NOTE: Analysis of Rafale vs F-22 dogfight Croatia buys Rafale Airframe Airframe itself is common between Rafale C and Rafale M, and is designed for 16,5 g ultimate limit load. As 16,5 / 1,5 = 11, R…

defenseissues.wordpress.com

For a better ITR the desirable characteristic is low wing loading ( = aircraft mass / wing area) and high thrust-to-weight ratio.

 

[HawkisRight]

LolLol.. typical babudom..sarakari attitude to dekho..hal is bloody effing psu afterall These buggers don't give damn other than 10 to 5 chai samosa..sell them all and let private players run the industry and shove all domestic products in their backside by forcefully...warna ye psu faltugiri aise hi chalta rahega..saala khud ka product don't buy and they will do alien concepts like marketing..

 

[Roland55]

Im sorry if this brings another off topic here (is tejas related after all)

While i was following the Tejas Mk.1A offer to the Argentine air force (FAA) with the option of replacing components (50 i think). Since mid-late 2021 they announced that the formal offer was going to be presented at the end of said year. But recently the Chief of the Air Force stated that to get a better evaluation of the options it was required to "evaluate in situ" (aka, an evaluation by a commission of all aircraft offered).

This actually makes me wonder if the Tejas still stands as an option (if said offer was given) and if an Argentine commission its gonna be visiting India soon. Still a bit skeptical tho...