LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[omaebakabaka]

True but u know that RCS.....
Seriously this RCS discussion is getting ridiculous. And doesn't anyone have heard words like Jammers, EW suite, AWACS etc. Not every strategy or Jet needs low RCS. 2 Big dots signifying MKIs in radars were enough to attract full package shooting aimless AMRAAM shots and running away dropping bombs (*ALL SEQUENCES MENTIONED ARE FICTIONAL AND ANY SIMILARITY WILL JUST BE CONSIDERED CO-INCIDENCE*).
Low RCS is for stealth strategy more so. In highly contested airspace it the famous statement "Khulla Khel Farukhabadi".
So its better to check complete package then just focusing on single aspect.

Ya, totally overweighted as generation moves in arms build up at force level is gradual even for 1st rated powers as money is finite atleast till now but US seems to be creative in money generation now a days so it will impact our import purchase power. In any case, numbers and balanced profile of equipment and strategy and training play as important role as ever.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

. tejas when loaded up with missiles and drop tanks will have huge rcs.

Sukhois, inspite of being great fighters are out dated. Therefore, the super sukhoi update is urgent need. Reduce RCS by applying Ram paints and air intake redesign will reduce RCS, Put a mammoth AESA radar of 400 KM+ range into its big nosecone, Put BVR with at least meteor equivalent range and put top class EWs (It is very much necessary because of a big RCS and can be targeted from a great range.) to keep it relevant for few more years.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Tejas RCS will be on much lower side in A2A configuration with 2 BVR+2CCM it will still have much lower RCS than Sukhoi.

Infact, the RCS of both planes can not be compared. Sukhoi's RCS can not be reduced bellow 3 Sq meter even with best efforts. Tejas in its MK1A avatar will have 0.1 to 0.2 Sq meter of RCS against 0.5 Sq mater of Tejas Mk1. Tejas Mk1A will be a great plane in every aspects except in area of range. Tejas has a possibility to improve range by atleast 500 KM to beyond 2000 KM without external fuel from current ferry range of 1700 KM. Lots of Aerodynamic improvement and a little rise (60 KG) in fuel is planned in Mk1A. However, after arrival of OBOGS, there will be no need for the space to carry oxygen cylinder behind pilot seat. This space can be used for making fuel tank bigger. At least 300 to 400 kg More fuel can be accommodated. Tejas is all set to be a very decent fighter. Canopy redesign, Air intake redesign , Paylone redesign, rare part of engine section redesign will make Tejas a much better plane. Even engine efficiency will improve by 3% because of intake redesign. With secured data link, Advance AESA, Advance EW and reduced weight, Tejas MK1A will rock and will be consider a great light weight fighter comparable to Gripen C/D. Its flight performance shall be much better with 20% higher Transonic acceleration. Highest speed will improve by 2% i.e around 32 KMPH. With the missiles like Astra Mk2, ASRAAM, Paython like missile, it will be a great plane. Anything in Chinese arsenal can easily be defeated with Tejas Mk1 A. The shitty JF 17 will be absolutely no match to Tejas. Too much goodies are planned in Tejas Mk1 A.

 

[VikingGod]

Infact, the RCS of both planes can not be compared. Sukhoi's RCS can not be reduced bellow 3 Sq meter even with best efforts. Tejas in its MK1A avatar will have 0.1 to 0.2 Sq meter of RCS against 0.5 Sq mater of Tejas Mk1. Tejas Mk1A will be a great plane in every aspects except in area of range. Tejas has a possibility to improve range by atleast 500 KM to beyond 2000 KM without external fuel from current ferry range of 1700 KM. Lots of Aerodynamic improvement and a little rise (60 KG) in fuel is planned in Mk1A. However, after arrival of OBOGS, there will be no need for the space to carry oxygen cylinder behind pilot seat. This space can be used for making fuel tank bigger. At least 300 to 400 kg More fuel can be accommodated. Tejas is all set to be a very decent fighter. Canopy redesign, Air intake redesign , Paylone redesign, rare part of engine section redesign will make Tejas a much better plane. Even engine efficiency will improve by 3% because of intake redesign. With secured data link, Advance AESA, Advance EW and reduced weight, Tejas MK1A will rock and will be consider a great light weight fighter comparable to Gripen C/D. Its flight performance shall be much better with 20% higher Transonic acceleration. Highest speed will improve by 2% i.e around 32 KMPH. With the missiles like Astra Mk2, ASRAAM, Paython like missile, it will be a great plane. Anything in Chinese arsenal can easily be defeated with Tejas Mk1 A. The shitty JF 17 will be absolutely no match to Tejas. Too much goodies are planned in Tejas Mk1 A.

Tejas Mk1A will be deadly Weapon , Hope IAF goes for more versions of it B/C/D , its so cheap for its performance .

 

[ketaki]

Wrong thread.

little bit related no? its about malaysian LCA competition...where Tejas is a participant

 

[omaebakabaka]

i agree 100%---MODS please move the last few posts there

Thats just a pointless gesture considering how much of thread deviates....it would be better for majority of members that have especially accumulated number of posts on their profile to keep it relevant. We all get carried away sometimes but best thing would be to tag it as you did to not stray after one post and response.

 

[Ghost hale]

Confirmation on indigenous engine. Tejas MK1 and 1a won't get it.

DRDO’s new engine plan won’t cover Tejas Mk1A fleet – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Vamsi]

View attachment 86463

I remember once a Paki minister saying that they will send porkies to space in chinkie spacecraft in response to our Gaganyaan.

 

[Spitfire9]

Confirmation on indigenous engine. Tejas MK1 and 1a won't get it.

DRDO’s new engine plan won’t cover Tejas Mk1A fleet – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

IMO India's chance to use an Indian engine in LCA started to fade 10 or more years ago. The undue optimism about Kaveri, I suspect, for reasons of nationalistic fervour, the developer not being candid about problems looking insuperable, the LCA project managers being too weak to demand a realistic assessment of the situation and their failure to abandon in good time all led to a multi-year delay in seeking a solution as to how to power Tejas with an engine made in India. Had there been more realism and less nationalistic fervour a foreign OEM could have been called in to fix Kaveri in time for it to go into production in time for Mk1A.

There is only one culprit (and victim) here: India. No other country forced India to shoot herself in the foot.

 

[THESIS THORON]

WELL I THINK KALYANI SYSTEM IS ALSO DEV JET ENGINE

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

WELL I THINK KALYANI SYSTEM IS ALSO DEV JET ENGINE

right now only for drones and cruse missiles.
their ultimate goal is to develop a jet engine, but baba kalyani in an interview said that it will take at-least a decade to do that.

 

[Ghost hale]

IMO India's chance to use an Indian engine in LCA started to fade 10 or more years ago. The undue optimism about Kaveri, I suspect, for reasons of nationalistic fervour, the developer not being candid about problems looking insuperable, the LCA project managers being too weak to demand a realistic assessment of the situation and their failure to abandon in good time all led to a multi-year delay in seeking a solution as to how to power Tejas with an engine made in India. Had there been more realism and less nationalistic fervour a foreign OEM could have been called in to fix Kaveri in time for it to go into production in time for Mk1A.

There is only one culprit (and victim) here: India. No other country forced India to shoot herself in the foot.

Dry thrust Kaveri > Dry thrust F404. Afterburner section have issues which can be fixed but investment a 1 billion more is required. Already offered by safran. Do a favour and just read history and flaws of kaveri program before making claims like nationalistic fervour and shoot(shot) in foot.

 

[Lonewolf]

IMO India's chance to use an Indian engine in LCA started to fade 10 or more years ago. The undue optimism about Kaveri, I suspect, for reasons of nationalistic fervour, the developer not being candid about problems looking insuperable, the LCA project managers being too weak to demand a realistic assessment of the situation and their failure to abandon in good time all led to a multi-year delay in seeking a solution as to how to power Tejas with an engine made in India. Had there been more realism and less nationalistic fervour a foreign OEM could have been called in to fix Kaveri in time for it to go into production in time for Mk1A.

There is only one culprit (and victim) here: India. No other country forced India to shoot herself in the foot.

We also fell that , actually it was more of too much ambitious goal , lca should have been around m 88 instead of ge 404 .

Well we tried on that part to rope in foreign partner too , but they refused to help , it's problem is more of design than metallurgy , we have material and designing of blades for 1750 k inlet temperature but going for that , it will give rise to new design issue , it need to be either opened up and restart from square zero , this program need to be resolved but not now , we csn do it post 2025 for mid life refit but doing it now will be just a morale victory stunt when there is already a financial crunch .

We messed up it really bad ,but it is still worth a try .

Well to tell you a 50kn. Dry Variant is in works for ucav bomber , ghatak , adding a similar looking render below with 2 ton internal capacity.

 

[Spitfire9]

Dry thrust Kaveri > Dry thrust F404. Afterburner section have issues which can be fixed but investment a 1 billion more is required. Already offered by safran. Do a favour and just read history and flaws of kaveri program before making claims like nationalistic fervour and shoot(shot) in foot.

Well, if you think that setting out to develop an airframe and setting out to develop an engine for it but not recognising/acknowleging/conceding that you cannot develop the engine until it is too late to get others in who are able to finish the job is OK, then OK.

You have an Indian airframe but no Indian engine. I find that avoidable. And absurd. How did that come about? Did GTRE say that things were going badly and they could not say with confidence that they could come up with an engine that would work in time for it to be available for Tejas? Not as I recollect things.

Did whoever was running the project demand a realistic assessment of progress on development? I don't think so. Why did that not happen? Nothing to do with national pride in India joining the select league of countries able to make jet engines? You had a troubled project of national importance and it was allowed to drift into complete failure (product promised was never produced).

 

[FalconSlayers]

Download for free.
It's technically a "videogame" but actually simulates aircraft flying physics, aircraft instrumentation, even combat idk.

Jeez it is very expensive, yeh kya baat hui? 2 lakh rupees for whole setup? Free version is basically empty.

 

[Ghost hale]

Well, if you think that setting out to develop an airframe and setting out to develop an engine for it but not recognising/acknowleging/conceding that you cannot develop the engine until it is too late to get others in who are able to finish the job is OK, then OK.

I am really trying to be mild here but what kind of BS argument is this. You set out to develop engine and acknowledging that u can't develop it? U acknowledge project failed when u run out of of idea/money/options. U don't quit midway that it didn't worked till now so lets stop. 2 billion is normal development cost a new engine, Kaveri program with delays is still below half a billion and with more than 2000 Hrs flight and will be used in UCAV.

You have an Indian airframe but no Indian engine. I find that avoidable. And absurd. How did that come about? Did GTRE say that things were going badly and they could not say with confidence that they could come up with an engine that would work in time for it to be available for Tejas? Not as I recollect things.

So not able to develop YET a highly complex technology is absurd but able to develop fighter jets doesn't cut. Ur intellect seems to amaze me.

Did whoever was running the project demand a realistic assessment of progress on development? I don't think so. Why did that not happen? Nothing to do with national pride in India joining the select league of countries able to make jet engines? You had a troubled project of national importance and it was allowed to drift into complete failure (product promised was never produced).

NEWS FLASH nobody gives a damn what u think or not. India didn't decided to develop a fighter jet or engine or anything else because of what u think. It was required, we invested. Some goals were achieved some not so. As we have better option to add higher thrust engine we are going for that now. Kaveri will be added back with afterburner or not is out of question as thats always a option available. Product promised was never produced and project can be haulted because we have options. If nothing than atleast read most unreliable source wikipedia. All collaboration theories etc. which u are suggesting were considered. And don't come back taking points from there as it wasn't update on events after 2010. Get data than make these claims.

 

[VikingGod]

We also fell that , actually it was more of too much ambitious goal , lca should have been around m 88 instead of ge 404 .

Well we tried on that part to rope in foreign partner too , but they refused to help , it's problem is more of design than metallurgy , we have material and designing of blades for 1750 k inlet temperature but going for that , it will give rise to new design issue , it need to be either opened up and restart from square zero , this program need to be resolved but not now , we csn do it post 2025 for mid life refit but doing it now will be just a morale victory stunt when there is already a financial crunch .

We messed up it really bad ,but it is still worth a try .

Well to tell you a 50kn. Dry Variant is in works for ucav bomber , ghatak , adding a similar looking render below with 2 ton internal capacity.

View attachment 86478

Govt. should handover Kaveri design , Know how to private sector , give some grant & let them modify it make it work .

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Tejas Mk1A will be deadly Weapon , Hope IAF goes for more versions of it B/C/D , its so cheap for its performance .

If its fuselage is prolonged for half of meter and weight is reduced to 6100 kg along with other aerodynamic improvements, It can be a very very lethal weapon. The imitial ddsign change of Mk2 were very impressive. Let us see how Tejas Mk1A turns out to be? Whether best in class or among the best in clas.

 

[lcafanboy]

If its fuselage is prolonged for half of meter and weight is reduced to 6100 kg along with other aerodynamic improvements, It can be a very very lethal weapon. The imitial ddsign change of Mk2 were very impressive. Let us see how Tejas Mk1A turns out to be? Whether best in class or among the best in clas.

Then what is MWF....
It's an elongated version of LCA MK1A with closed couple canards and a much powerful engine and better payload.
Why continue making LCA MK1A when MWF will be ready for production when last of 83 MK1A will be rolling out. After 83 LCA MK1A, MWF will come out seamlessly ..

 

[Roland55]

Retro Moment #1!