LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[vishnugupt]

Read my above post...

Opening HAL for manufacturing doesn't mean other Private companies also working. There are some strict lock-down going on in some part of country and none is exempted ( private ). Bangluru also one of worse hit city by Wuhan Virus.
Despite of claim for opening, I seriously doubt HAL could have managed to bring all workers to the factory. Either they have just opened for name sake or working on 1/3 of its capacity or less.
I criticize Armed forces day and night but it doesn't mean I dont know what PSUs claim and how they actually work

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Do we still have to procure?

Can't we fastrack tejas production

For that brother GOI needs to give order's to HAL. HAL can open a second production line only If they have orders in their book for now HAL don't have more orders that's why they are sticking slow.
They need new order's to keep up the production and increase the speed.

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

For that brother GOI needs to give order's to HAL. HAL can open a second production line only If they have orders in their book for now HAL don't have more orders that's why they are sticking slow.
They new order's to keep up the production and increase the speed.

No like if a war broke out we can give more orders and they can give us 10 lca a month from current pace of 1 in 3 months?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

No like if a war broke out we can give more orders and they can give us 10 lca a month from current pace of 1 in 3 months?

No bro non of the country beside USA have capability to manufacturer these many aircrafts in a month. Even the EU giants like dassault don't have these numbers.

At max HAL can produce 20+ tejas in a year and + some Su-30mki

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

No bro non of the country beside USA have capability to manufacturer these many aircrafts in a month. Even the EU giants like dassault don't have these numbers.

At max HAL can produce 20+ tejas in a year and + some Su-30mki

That is during peacetime.

During war don't they ramp up the production to meet requirements like look how many planes us produced during ww2(i know that number is impossible today) but 10 a month is a realistic number during wartime.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

That is during peacetime.

During war don't they ramp up the production to meet requirements like look how many planes us produced during ww2(i know that number is impossible today) but 10 a month is a realistic number during wartime.

There is a difference between WW2 era planes and today's jets even in the cold war massive production could have been possible but today it's very difficult.
In cold war fighter's were breaking mach-2 barriers but now speed is limited to mach-1.8 because of fatigue high speed causes on the frame.
One and most important reason is cost of raw materials have risen up dramatically second advancement of the aircrafts you don't need thousands of old generation fighters today single aircraft is capable of performing multiple roles.
Even USA cannot build thousands of advanced aircrafts in a spree today.
Why do you think that a all out war with Chinese will continue for 10 months? My guess is if we go on war with Chinese it will be precise and short war.

Even under extreme load at max dassault can do x2 of its production rate not more than that.
The thing which we need in massive production during war is missiles and ammunition.
Thousands of missiles are needed to build daily.

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

There is a difference between WW2 era planes and today's jets even in the cold war massive production could have been possible but today it's very difficult.
In cold war fighter's were breaking mach-2 barriers but now speed is limited to mach-1.8 because of fatigue high speed causes on the frame.
One and most important reason is cost of raw materials have risen up dramatically second advancement of the aircrafts you don't need thousands of old generation fighters today single aircraft is capable of performing multiple roles.
Even USA cannot build thousands of advanced aircrafts in a spree today.
Why do you think that a all out war with Chinese will continue for 10 months? My guess is if we go on war with Chinese it will be precise and short war.

Even under extreme load at max dassault can do x2 of its production rate not more than that.
The thing which we need in massive production during war is missiles and ammunition.
Thousands of missiles are needed to build daily.

So are the options that remain with us in a short and precise war with chinese ?

It is inevitable that if we down some planes, we will also lose some.

So only choice remains to buy planes from other countries airforces?

 

[vishnugupt]

That is during peacetime.

During war don't they ramp up the production to meet requirements like look how many planes us produced during ww2(i know that number is impossible today) but 10 a month is a realistic number during wartime.

This is possible only when you have 100% indigenization along with all required parts available within a city and lots of well trained technician in reserve.
By not ordering ( not showing promptness ) Tejas Mk1a means IAF might believe they are self sufficient to take on any eventuality, atleast after ordering 22 Mig-29 and 12 Su-30mki.

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

This is possible only when you have 100% indigenization along with all required parts available within a city and lots of well trained technician in reserve.
By not ordering ( not showing promptness ) Tejas Mk1a means IAF might believe they are self sufficient to take on any eventuality, atleast after ordering 22 Mig-29 and 12 Su-30mki.

Even those will take atleast 1.5 years to come.

War will be over well before that.

 

[Suryavanshi]

No like if a war broke out we can give more orders and they can give us 10 lca a month from current pace of 1 in 3 months?

It's a difficult task.
Say u somehow have the resolve to build 10 a month.
You will need to get 10 engine from General Electric
10 seat erector form martin baker.
10 radars from Elta Israel
Not to mention getting the fuselage material, fabrication and than putting it all together in a frame takes time.
Than there are several small components that need to be put in.

After that the most difficult part is testing, it takes a lot of time you got to male sure every screw is in right place and evey actuator us working properly.

F 16 takes about 45,000 man hours to build.
If supply chian is optimised and working in full capacity an f 16 can be built in 4 to 5 days. Excluding the testing time.

Us had a production rate of 1000 aircraft in 1939 when it entered the war after which it shot up to 90,000 at the end of 1944.

Everything is possible if u try.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

So are the options that remain with us in a short and precise war with chinese ?

It is inevitable that if we down some planes, we will also lose some.

So only choice remains to buy planes from other countries airforces?

If you lose some aircrafts you lose them and hold the adversary on ground. You cannot even buy aircrafts from other nations as you don't have infrastructure to maintain and hold them secondly you don't have trained pilot for that platform.
Anyways in war most required equipment is missiles that's the reason why we were building 3K painka a year few years back.
You can target enemies airport's with these missiles and constantly cause damge.

 

[vishnugupt]

Even those will take atleast 1.5 years to come.

War will be over well before that.

According to Holy Bhagwat Geeta " When you go for a war take it as your Dharma/duty, dont think about anything else( weapon, Manpower, Loss or win )''
Hence, Neither we should think about anything nor we should wait for anything. Period

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

It's a difficult task.
Say u somehow have the resolve to build 10 a month.
You will need to get 10 engine from General Electric
10 seat erector form martin baker.
10 radars from Elta Israel
Not to mention getting the fuselage material, fabrication and than putting it all together in a frame takes time.
Than there are several small components that need to be put in.

After that the most difficult part is testing, it takes a lot of time you got to male sure every screw is in right place and evey actuator us working properly.

F 16 takes about 45,000 man hours to build.
If supply chian is optimised and working in full capacity an f 16 can be built in 4 to 5 days. Excluding the testing time.

Us had a production rate of 1000 aircraft in 1939 when it entered the war after which it shot up to 90,000 at the end of 1944.

Everything is possible if u try.

Maybe a war with china will teach us the importance of indigenous and independent aerospace industry

 

[Bleh]

Opening HAL for manufacturing doesn't mean other Private companies also working. There are some strict lock-down going on in some part of country and none is exempted ( private ). Bangluru also one of worse hit city by Wuhan Virus.
Despite of claim for opening, I seriously doubt HAL could have managed to bring all workers to the factory. Either they have just opened for name sake or working on 1/3 of its capacity or less.
I criticize Armed forces day and night but it doesn't mean I dont know what PSUs claim and how they actually work

There's more to it than that. SP-22 was completed & had engines ground test in March, but still not delivered... SP-23/24 were almost ready by April.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Once Tejas gets the indigenous UTTAM AESA Radars DRDO will push for scaled up version for Su30mki and mig29 as well

It's not easy. We have to change mission computer as well. That means a new Su30 like J11 or J16. Unless the Russian give permission and access to source code.

 

[Bleh]

It's not easy. We have to change mission computer as well. That means a new Su30 like J11 or J16. Unless the Russian give permission and access to source code.

Indian mission comp (developed by DARE under project Ventrivale) already used in Su-30MKI, com. suite & signal processor too are Indian.

All 3 basic conditions met, Uttam will be compatible.

 

[Shekhar Singh]

It's not easy. We have to change mission computer as well. That means a new Su30 like J11 or J16. Unless the Russian give permission and access to source code.

Su 30Mki already has our own mission computer, that's why we could have integrated Brahmos without russian help.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Maybe a war with china will teach us the importance of indigenous and independent aerospace industry

It's not like importance is not known to anyone .
There is a lack of resolve in the administration to fix things for good.
Things are getting better know.
A supply chain ecosystem is slowly being set up to fuel aeropace industry but this alone won't cut it.

 

[Pulkit]

We need the second batch of rafales ordered now 36 fighters on emergency basis

Totally understand where this is coming from but if we proceed with the follow-up order we will be left with no money to buy anything else.

Tejas has to be signed for mark1a

ASAP

Derby ER and new EW suites are need for the MKI fleet asap
get more Awacs in

oh FOR GODS SAKE PLEASE scrap the mig21 bison ........ it is embaressing in 2020

They will remain till the time they are not replaced and to replace them we need Tejas.

I have said it before and will say it again.
Order additional one squad of Tejas Mk1 to a private firm with a follow up of 80+ Tejas MK1A(Private) and reduce the numbers with HAL to 50 odd.
by the time those 50 will be built we will have our Tejas Mk2 and then they should place a bigger order.


HAL setting up new line does not give me enough faith to trust them with deliveries.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Everything is possible if u try.

Not anymore, not on that scale, for a nation like India.