LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

HariPrasad-1

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MWF with proposed 75/125 KN engine shall be a king of all single engine fighters. We should start work on making it a baap of all single engine fighter with better stealth, external weapon bay, atleast frontal stealth, GAN AESA, and spectra like EW. It will be faster, more maneuverable platform with higher payload. It will free Rafale and MKI from many missions as it will be able to do that at a significantly lower cost. If you have a potent platform in hand, its capabilities should be exploited fully.
 

Blademaster

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MWF with proposed 75/125 KN engine shall be a king of all single engine fighters. We should start work on making it a baap of all single engine fighter with better stealth, external weapon bay, atleast frontal stealth, GAN AESA, and spectra like EW. It will be faster, more maneuverable platform with higher payload. It will free Rafale and MKI from many missions as it will be able to do that at a significantly lower cost. If you have a potent platform in hand, its capabilities should be exploited fully.
How would it compare to the F-16 fighter and its engine?
 

NutCracker

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How would it compare to the F-16 fighter and its engine?
In any case its will be one notch below newly build F16-Viper standard with composite airframe.
But canards will give MWF an edge in rare instances of close combat.
 

Chinmoy

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First of all just a little advise. Ofcourse you have all the right to throw it in dustbin, but "don't write anything just for sake of argument. Try to do a bit of background study."

Now coming to your point.

India has indigenised Su30 helmets and will likely indigenise the Tejas helmets too given more orders. Also, there is no defect in Russian ejection seat and hence it makes no sense to buy Martin Baker if it is expensive. Ejection seats are low end tech which have been around since WW2 and hence no need to spend high.
India is likely to manufacture engine in future too. So why should we pay for those too. Right?

On the WW2 tech, have you ever came across this report?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...0-mki-ejection-seats/articleshow/57949832.cms

Let me make my first point clear again. The 64000 Crore on which you are crying is not what the manufacturer/HAL has asked for from MOD. Its the price which Buyer/IAF has asked from MOD.

In any kind of procurement, there are basically 4 process.

1- In Principle approval. This is also known as AON. Here the user submits a requirement to the council that why a particular acquisition has to be made. What they want to achieve with it and what are the features they want in it. Recently DPC has been cleared for IAC-2. Have you heard anything regarding its price in the news?

2- Administrative approval. After AON has been granted, user would move to the relevant council for fund allocation. Here they submit the observation by DPC that why the acquisition is necessary and additionally they would submit the budgetary proposal. Now in any budgetary quote, there are two parts involved in it. First is material, second is service. Based on the reports submitted, DAC would seek fund from MoF. After the budget is approved by MoF, DAC approve the project

3- Cabinet approval. After fund has been granted for the project, user moves for final approval to PMO. This is what CCS approval is. In the committee, along with PM, another important member is Foreign Minister. Here decisions are taken regarding the project and every permutation and combination is discussed regarding any foreign OEM involvement. Diplomacy with that country matters the most in this stage. After that the project gets final approval to move ahead.

4- Tendering/Ordering. Now after the go ahead, user moves to negotiation with seller. Means although a sum of X has been approved, but user would further negotiate on it to bring down the price. In case of earlier 83 jets, DAC approved ~50,000 Crore just like 64,000 Crore approval for 97 jets now. But HAL & IAF signed a deal of ~37,000 Crore for 83 jets instead of allotted 50,000 Crore after negotiation.
 

Satish Sharma

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In any case its will be one notch below newly build F16-Viper standard with composite airframe.
But canards will give MWF an edge in rare instances of close combat.
If it has more powerful GaN based radar with enought electric output. That too
With spectra like EW. With distributed aperture systems for 360 coverage which we developing for amca then surely it can surpass f16 viper. And T mk2
Is going to have alot of amca technologies.
With semi submerged missile pylons it will have less Radar-cross section..
Anyways
The 75/125kn engine won't happen in reality other most of above mentioned thing will be in mk2.
I think hal should get the EPE version of ge f414 which make 58.8/117kn thrust unlike the base variant of 98kn. This engines are more efficient than f100/f110 engines used in f16. I think it's more than enough because even if we see mirage 2000 it is a delta wing platform weights very similar 7.5 tons and mtow of 17tons compared to 7.8&17.5 tons.
It has less int. fuel capacity less effective engines it's engines makes 64/95kn which is more than enough for it. It goes mach 2.2. both have around 42m2 wing area. We should not compare mk2 to f16 as it has way more powerfull engine compared to mk2 who fits in similar weight category. It does feel like Tejas mk2 is underpower then but it's not..
 

Samej Jangir

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India is likely to manufacture engine in future too. So why should we pay for those too. Right?
I am not speaking of things that will be made in future but things which has always been made for long time. India made Mig21 ejection seats in the past. Ejection seats are not complex technology and there is no reason to import at exorbitant prices. If Martin Baker offers it at reasonable price, it may be considered as making ejection seats for 5-6 Tejas a year is really cost prohibitive due to scaling. But if the price from Martin Baker is exorbitant, then it will make sense to buy from Russia or make them using the Mig21 infrastructure
 

Samej Jangir

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The problems with ejection seats are minimal in terms of the accident caused. No system can be 100% reliable. But otherwise, even Mig21 ejection seats have been working well

Let me make my first point clear again. The 64000 Crore on which you are crying is not what the manufacturer/HAL has asked for from MOD. Its the price which Buyer/IAF has asked from MOD.
This was what you had to say first and I would have considered it as a reasonable response. If it is IAF asking, not HAL and the actual disbursement is dependent on the delivery cost while the 64000 crore is only a "ceiling limit", then it makes full sense. Thanks for the information
 

Satish Sharma

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Totally different category. Sant ER-ER-ER-ER will match them.
Yes but it has 120+ range when dropped from a good height just like brimstone 2 which gives 40km of helicopter and 80 from attack aircraft. Same thing applies to spear. It weight just 100kg tells a lot
Sant has 20km from helicopter
Anyways we have all the tech we need for it we should enhance sant missile for that range.
We have Millimetres wave active radars of sant which is same used in brimstone 2 &spear. We also have infrared homing with CCD. we have all the tech to make 2 variants like mbda's missile.
Tejas radar has quite good air ground capabilities. Such missiles will boost it air to ground capabilities (also there is good pod).
This is what most African nation needs it will boost it's export potential.
Making such missiles will be damn cheap than.mbda's missiles.. it will rain havoc on ground infantry if it carried alot of such missiles and launch in salvos like panavia tornado does with brimstone.
Those missiles also communicate with each other's and scans select the targets making salvo launch effective..
We should work on this.
 

Satish Sharma

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Dono MBDA ki hai we might end up buying any of them or both . It doesn't matter, they will be manufactured in India. We don't have any replacement of it till next 5-7 years.
Brimstone 2 is definetely not needed. We have all the tech as I said earlier in nag,hellina & sant missiles we are the only country which has such things developed still importing such missiles. Look at turkey they have there own now..
Literally we will be only example who millimetres wave radar all the tech and still importing it we just need to enhance sant missile..
Mbda has lobbied our corrupt unaccountable beurocracy is behind this.. we suck what does it need to develop a small turbo jet to power spear like missiles we have made manik for 1.5 ton nirbhay missiles.. everything is damn slow
 

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