LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Marliii

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seething Magaysians filled with prejudice..

I am eagerly waiting for that spectacular moment when deal is finalized.

That forum is heavily anti India.. probably filled with wumao and porky larpers.
These palm oil retards think they will get f35 for the cheap asses they are.their airforce already is a joke and with Indonesians strengthening their AF they already are clowns in ASEAN
 

Tridev123

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Agreed for the most part, but if I remember right, the ones Ecuador bought was Dhruv Mk1, which didn't even have a glass cockpit and no Active Vibration Control for the main rotor.
Also, Dhruv has been exported to civilians in Turkey and Peru. Never heard of bad news from that deal. Ecuador also never paid for a local MRO facility, which is not the case in the Malaysian deal. I think we'll be fine. As long as this deal actually gets signed though. The major thing is that this will be the first major weapons export from India, so it should help overcome some of the mental blocks that Indians have regarding Indian weapons quality, although I suspect the foreign dalals will then shift the propaganda from "Tejas useless" to "Tejas useful only thanks to American engine and Israeli avionics, etc."
Well, nowadays most weapon systems are improved in successive iterations.
So, even if the early Dhruvs did not have an glass cockpit or an vibration dampening system, it cannot be used as an excuse.
The obvious question that arises then is - why sell an heli with defects in the first place to an foreign customer.

I believe that at that point of time when the sale was made, HAL did not believe that the then version of ALH had defects. Its performance had been validated by the satisfactory experience of our Armed Forces (mainly the Air Force and the Army) in operating the platform.

HAL was then almost like a novice in the international arms trade arena. I believe HAL has matured since that Equador experience.

There were some weaknesses in the planning of the deal. It is not a case of simply selling and then forgetting. An aircraft requires continuous service support and supply of spares over the next decade or so. Also training is an very important part of the process. Since we hold the IP and designed the aircraft, we(HAL) will be called upon to do the trouble shooting when the operator is unable to do so.

If setting up an MRO facility would have ensured the smooth operation of the ALH by the Equadorian Armed Forces, then HAL should have insisted on it. Even if they add to costs. After all our reputation is also at stake.

I agree that India has yet to build a global reputation for delivering quality weapons.
Most Indians themselves do not have faith in our own products, especially if manufactured by PSU's. Though I personally have fond memories of the good wrist watches produced by the erstwhile HMT(an public sector unit).
 

Tridev123

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The Ecuador episode is overused as proof of HAL’s inability to export. To begin with the FAE has a TERRIBLE safety record, they crash just about every type they order in close succession. Don’t forget that the crashes of the ALHs in Ecuador were ruled pilot error and their crash structures actually

Also remember they ordered one of the ALHs as the transport for their president, if they were worried about the machine they’d never have done that.

I’m sure mistakes were made on HAL’s part and it’s undeniable they are rookies in the global export arena and supporting birds on the other side of the world was likely a challenge for them but HAL has come a long way since then and I’m sure they know the lessons that need to be implemented, furthermore since their corporatisation they have the autonomy and dynamism to actually be aggressive in fulfilling customer requests, this will become even more the case if they get serious revenue from a fighter deal. It was only recently that HAL actually started offering PBLs on their products, I’d hope any export customer would be wise enough to exercise such an option , then I’d have no concerns about HAL made products in foreign lands.
I would be very happy if HAL had at least one successful foreign sale of an major weapon system. But where is the example.

I agree that it could be entirely possible that faulty operation of the ALH by the Equador Air Force pilots could have been an major contributing factor to the accidents that happened. But does it not reflect on the training that we provided to those pilots.

Now if those chaps were inefficient and incapable of operating an advanced technology helicopter, then why sell it to them. Will we sell an ALH to the Somali militia if they give us the money. Obviously not. Knowing that they would crash our helicopter sooner or later and sully our reputation.

I do not absolve the Equador Air Force of any blame in the developments. But I think that the blame should be shared by both HAL and the Equador Air Force. To be fair.

A question. Why have the findings of the Failure Analysis Committee (I believe HAL would have investigated the whole matter) not been made public. There is nothing wrong in letting the public know. We will at least try to not repeat the mistakes.

Anyway an considerable amount of time has elapsed since that sale and I am sure HAL has changed much in that time. Changed for the better.

Along with offering Performance Based Logistics to the customers, providing Full Flight Simulators(I believe we have already developed an LCA aircraft simulator) will reduce the cost of training for the customer and increase the skill level of the pilots(customer pilots).

I agree,all this will only be speculation until the contract is actually signed.
Will HAL finally become one of the big boys of global aviation.
I would love it if a couple of our private sector companies also attain the competency of HAL in aerospace and give serious competition to HAL.
 

abingdonboy

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I would be very happy if HAL had at least one successful foreign sale of an major weapon system. But where is the example.

I agree that it could be entirely possible that faulty operation of the ALH by the Equador Air Force pilots could have been an major contributing factor to the accidents that happened. But does it not reflect on the training that we provided to those pilots.

Now if those chaps were inefficient and incapable of operating an advanced technology helicopter, then why sell it to them. Will we sell an ALH to the Somali militia if they give us the money. Obviously not. Knowing that they would crash our helicopter sooner or later and sully our reputation.

I do not absolve the Equador Air Force of any blame in the developments. But I think that the blame should be shared by both HAL and the Equador Air Force. To be fair.

A question. Why have the findings of the Failure Analysis Committee (I believe HAL would have investigated the whole matter) not been made public. There is nothing wrong in letting the public know. We will at least try to not repeat the mistakes.

Anyway an considerable amount of time has elapsed since that sale and I am sure HAL has changed much in that time. Changed for the better.

Along with offering Performance Based Logistics to the customers, providing Full Flight Simulators(I believe we have already developed an LCA aircraft simulator) will reduce the cost of training for the customer and increase the skill level of the pilots(customer pilots).

I agree,all this will only be speculation until the contract is actually signed.
Will HAL finally become one of the big boys of global aviation.
I would love it if a couple of our private sector companies also attain the competency of HAL in aerospace and give serious competition to HAL.
Ecuador is a sovereign nation, the prospect of a first export of the ALH clearly was worth pursuing the issue is HAL and GoI didn’t have the lobbying power or expertise to manage the issue when it became contentious domestically there after they had crashed a few ALHs.

On the training side all an OEM can do is get you to a safe standard, they can’t tell you how to use it or what your SOPs will be, like I said FAE has a terrible safety record so there’s something inherently risky there.




+ as noted above- global arms sales are an incredibly ruthless business dominated by a few powerful entities who will play dirty games up to and including illicit activity to get their deals. HAL will need to get dirty too.
 

sakalasiva

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I don't know about you but Ive been through enough 'Tejas gets exported to xyz country' to be pessimistic.
I will believe it when the deal gets signed,I've no interest in acting as if it's a done deal.
So what if it is not selected. Good thing is that our HAL is proactive in securing export order. Always intent matters results will follow eventually. Why Indian sees success in binary only. It is a journey not a one day walk.
 

Johny_Baba

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Try a flight simulator game (now probably development is abandoned, dev is a japanese aviation enthusiast named Yamakawa Soji) named "YS Flight Simulator"
it doesn't have Tejas on its own but many fans of that flightsim made their own assets for it including Tejas

i happen to have files for Tejas somewhere in my pc, will upload it here later. For now find the flight sim app off Internet and install it etc.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Tejas MK1 A will have further reduced RCS and improved aerodynamics, higher payload and MTOW (Already updated in official specification), Higher service ceiling, Better STR, Higher transonic acceleration (20% higher), Reduced Drag (6%), Higher top speed (2%).
There is no change in outer design in Mk1A. Any design changes would be painful in terms of certification again. Internally yes, they are redistributing some components for easy maintenance. So none of the above you just posted above can be true without modifying the design.
 

Roland55

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Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt the addition of structural reinforcements planned for the Mk.1A so it could contemplate higher G-tolerances ?
 

abingdonboy

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We need to keep an alternate for ejection seat. In case a country like Argentina has some reservation on UK made parts, we can go for Russian alternative.
Russia should never be integrated into Indian aerospace projects again even if only as a subsystem. They’ve chosen their side and path and it is one that is only going to cause more divergence with india going forward. As we have seen Western sanctions will
Be broad and will target vendors and sub-contractors. Even a slight connection with Russia would’ve caused LCA to be sanctioned by now and then you can kiss goodbye to any export prospects.

Russia is a power in decline and isn’t in a position to serve their own interests let alone India’s so keep away
 

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