LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

johnj

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BS decision. This was a fear from day one. It was our mistake to go for GE engines which were inferior to their European counterparts. Imagine that we had a 60 kn dry thrust engine in Tejas than BS GE 404. It would have given Tejas a big boost in performance.
yes, totally agree, but again goi choose ge for mwf, amca , better luck with rr jv.
 

Javelin_Sam

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It's not goi that chooses engines for aircraft projects. It's done by ADA. RD-33 is 6 inches larger in diameter and 12 inches longer in length. Add the not so good reliability factor of Russian engine compared to GE in a single engine fighter project that might have impacted ADA back when selecting engine
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Please refrain yourself putting such allegations to anyone. Neither there is direct evidence nor a circumstantial evidence to prove it. Journalist are having habit to bring Masala over actual news

CDS wasn't a helpless guy. He was holder of a Minister level portfolio and highest person in military office. Import lobby can't even dare to touch him....

Inter service rivalry is also a fake narrative... Losses suffered by all.

There could be diffence in opinion or opposition among service for their interest but Rivalry something I don't believe.
MoD probably wanted to avoid any reference to conspiracy angle, would have fuelled doubts abt IB and RAW even if false. Pakis would have had a field day without doing anything.
 

johnj

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It's not goi that chooses engines for aircraft projects. It's done by ADA. RD-33 is 6 inches larger in diameter and 12 inches longer in length. Add the not so good reliability factor of Russian engine compared to GE in a single engine fighter project that might have impacted ADA back when selecting engine
Its not about choice but about law, a flawed law to choose low bidder and not considering better or future.
Last selection between ge414 and ej200. between rd 33 and ge 404, ge404 a way ahead of rd and we wanted reliable engine, like one in mirage,
 

MonaLazy

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BS decision. This was a fear from day one. It was our mistake to go for GE engines which were inferior to their European counterparts. Imagine that we had a 60 kn dry thrust engine in Tejas than BS GE 404. It would have given Tejas a big boost in performance.
Looking at the air flow requirements I think it would have necessitated the same transformation as Mk1/A -> Mk2 and hence delayed the project. We need larger inlets to sustain the greater air flow.

F404 70 kg/s
F414 77.1 kg/s
EJ200 75-77 kg/s

I think it would have put the whole program in jeopardy if Mk1 & Mk1A were cancelled forcing a jump to Mk2 design many years ago.


F404
1643039273997.png


F414
1643039295386.png


EJ200
1643039323729.png





 

no smoking

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johnj

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3 questions about Tejas Mk2:
a. How many has produced since 2015?
b. If Mk1A was procured at the price over 40M, how can MK2 be lower?
Tejas Mk1A: At $75 million per unit, How does it fare against the competition – Indian Defence Research Wing (idrw.org)
LCA-MK1A to cost ₹306 crore, HAL actively pursuing exports - The Hindu
c. 1200km COMBAT RADIUS? Are you sure?
its a very old data, unofficial, made by fanboys, irreverent, it takes a lot of time to complete a fighter jet.
a. None, becz no engine is available, and need 2/3 plus years needed once engine is available for achieving zero crash.
b. mk1a costs 45 million. full local component reduce it cost further, also price point made before 2015. 99% of idrw articles were irrelevant and wrote with little ideas. if lca mk1a cost is 75 million, better buy gripen e or more mki[65mil] 306 core inr comes closer to 40mil usd, putting price tag less than 40mil for local customer.
c. Combat radius is unknown till date, ADA changed design more than twice, only after foc aircraft is flown , it is possible to understand real combat radius.
I made those post to understand how ADA's development going. Without political support, R&D comes to a silent slow condition.
 

MonaLazy

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On the Malaysian FLIT requirement, could definitely be a hit job as the article professes no element of neutrality, not even a photo of competitors other than the ones it endorses-

Competition Now Between FA-50 Block 20 And M-346FA?
Sources told Defense Security Asia that the tender competition to supply 18 FLIT/LCA aircraft to TUDM is now between the FA-50 Block 20 made by South Korea/ the United States and the Italian company M-346FA.

(DEFENCE SECURITY ASIA) - Ministry of Defense international tender to acquire 18 Fighter Lead-In Trainer/Light Combat Aircraft aircraft (FLIT/LCA) was officially closed on October 6 last year and since that date has begun the task of the appraisal team to determine the winner.

The 18-plane acquisition tender for TUDM, which is expected to cost up to RM4 billion, has attracted several aircraft manufacturers who risked their output aircraft in the tender.

Between six and eight companies are said to have joined the Ministry of Defense's international tender for the FLIT/LCA aircraft Korea Industries Aerospace (KAI), Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group and China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corp (CATIC).

In addition Leonardo's company and Saab Group from Sweden also joined the tender.

As we have seen over the past few weeks, the competition to supply 18 FLIT/LCA aircraft to the RMAF has been fierce, with companies involved offering various exciting deals to Malaysia.

From the offer “final assembly line,” Maintenance, Overhall and Refurbishment (MRO) centers to local production and more.

Although the competition to supply the 18 aircraft is fierce, Defense Security Asia (DSA) has been informed by sources that it is believed that at present two types of FLIT/LCA aircraft are ahead of competition based on some of its "technical strength".

Both planes are FA-50 Block 20 developed by KAI as well as the M-346 FA (Fighter Aircraft) aircraft developed by Leonardo's company.

“It seems that both aircraft are at the forefront of competition due to a number of technical factors and, logically, both aircraft are a safe choice for the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF).”

What is meant to be "safe" by a source of waste?

The "Safe" meant by the source is that both FLIT/LCA aircraft have been used by many countries including regional countries and are a "proven" option, with security within the network of alternatives and existing aid infrastructure.

At this time, the FA-50/TA-50 aircraft other than being used by the South Korean Air Force (about 60) were also used by our neighboring countries such as Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Whereas for aircraft Leonardo M-346 Furthermore, since 2012 the aircraft has been used by our neighboring country, the Singapore Air Force, in addition to other customers such as the Italian Air Force, Poland and Israel.

The FA-50 and M-346 have reached a certain level of "maturity" that makes customers and their customers feel comfortable using it.

KAI through its local partner has also announced some very interesting offers if Malaysia chooses the FA-50.

In addition to the FA-50 and Leonardo M-346 which enjoyed success in the export market, other aircraft such as Tejas, JF-17 and L-15 Hongdu only used by the country of manufacture and failed to export to the country outside.

While the Hurjet developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is still in prototype condition, the first flight will only take place next year.

The Hurjet was described as a "new baby crawl", according to observers.

For the MiG-35, it was only used by the Russian Air Force in very small numbers at this time, in addition to the claim that it was just a fighter aircraft that had been "rebranded" from the MiG-29 aircraft before.

Whether the TUDM or the Ministry of Defense is at risk of using prototype aircraft or aircraft not used by countries other than the country of manufacture itself?

KAI offers the FA-50 Block 20 aircraft equipped with a variety of advanced equipment such as “Sniper Advance Targeting Pod,” 20mm gun, AIM-9 missile, GBU-12 LGB Integration, GBU-38 JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munitions) and AGM-65 Maverick missiles.

KAI developed the FA-50 aircraft in collaboration with Lockheed Martin, so it's no wonder we can see the DNA of the US aerospace industry on the fighter aircraft.

In addition, the FA-50 Block 20 will also be equipped with the Air-To-Air Refuelling Probe (AAR Probe) facility for refueling and Link 16 Block Upgrade 2.

The AAR Probe facility will ensure that the FA-50 Block 20 is capable of operating longer and longer.

In addition there are options for future work that can be done in the future as the matter will be upgraded in the current development process by KAI.

Among them, include 300 gallons of External Fuel Tanks and Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capabilities in the form of AIM-120 air-to-air missiles (AMRAAM).

A little more improvement and upgrading, the FA-50 Block II aircraft offered by KAI can already be categorized as MRCA (Multi Role Combat Aircraft) aircraft.

The question of the use of Israeli components by the FA-50 Block 20 is also expected to cause many problems as KAI has committed to replace it with the same components made by the United States and South Korea.

The latest variant of the M-346FA according to Leonardo's company, is designed to provide increased capabilities for the military in the field.

Leonardo said the FA (Fighter Attack) variant was offered to meet the needs MUDM it can be assigned to perform various tasks on combat fields such as ground support including air-to-ground, tactical, close water support (CAS) and counter-insurgency (COIN) missions.

The two engines can also be equipped with smart bullets (precision guided munitions –PGM).

In addition, the M-346FA variant was developed to provide training to pilots, air combat, enforcement and control of airspace and tactical monitoring.

The Leonardo company's two-seater variant of the M-346FA also comes with a digital glass cockpit.

In addition, the aircraft also has LCD multi-function displays, head-up display, night vision goggle (NVG), voice command system, self-protection system, helmet-mounted display (HMD) system, navigation and communication as well as traffic collision avoidance system. - DSA


 

abingdonboy

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We need atleast 300+ fighter in next 10-15 years…

That could only be achieved via a competition… In which Tejas mk2 to be developed by Tata-LM & ORCA/TEDBF by Mahindra-Boeing, with ADA & HAL overseeing both the companies…and focusing totally on AMCA!

Thus two fighters will definitely meeting IAF standards and will be on time & which ever fighter IAF like the most can go with 200 of that and 100 of the other.

It will create an ecosystem and also reduce our dependence on foreign products plus two more potent platforms to sell in international markets.

& most importantly

ADA & HAL putting all the efforts and time in AMCA!!

Gripen isn’t totally indigenous still it is a potent fighter we should act smart rather than trying to be jack of all trades
BS.

If IAF gets their head out of their a$$ and gives decent orders then production, ecosystem etc will take care of itself. Remember all HAL had before March 2021 was 16+16+8 orders, what kind of production capacity would you expect for such pitiful orders? 4-5/year is about all you can really expect.

The stupid games IAF has played with LCA is why Coke 2025 PAF will have 200+ JF-17 in service and will be onto the blk 3 whilst they are only up to 45 or so LCA and forced to still be flying the MIG-21.

I’ve been listening to the blue skies podcast that has detailed the LCA project using accounts from insiders (test pilots) and the picture they paint is pretty clear. One of them even mentioned that when he joined the test team the feeling within the IAF and LCA project was the LCA was merely a tech demonstrator.

one thing that podcast makes clear is IAF are perhaps the best customers in the world. They can create ASQRs like no one else but they are totally out of their depth when it comes to developing a product.

even with the MK1A what were they arguing about for 2 years between 2019 and the contract signature? They could’ve placed the contract a year earlier and they’d only have to wait another 12 months or so for the first MK1As to come online.

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

same stupidity is going to play out with LCA MK.2 but somehow it will be HAL/ADA’s fault, anyone but the IAF’s of course.
 

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