LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Bleh

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The present chief has completely ignored the existence of mk2 project?
Too early... But it's definitely not just "exfarts", that's what I'm saying.

Many officers would preferably have the Mig-29 & Mirage-2000 be replaced by AMCA Mk1 instead of MWF... MMRCA.2 for the Jaguars & older Migs, AMCA Mk2 later on for the Su-30.
They have no consideration for the monetary requirements of entertaining their shitfuckery.
 

UnderFingy

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Too early... But it's definitely not just "exfarts", that's what I'm saying.

Many officers would preferably have the Mig-29 & Mirage-2000 be replaced by AMCA Mk1 instead of MWF... MMRCA.2 for the Jaguars & older Migs, AMCA Mk2 later on for the Su-30.
They have no consideration for the monetary requirements of entertaining their shitfuckery.
I hope the government has HAL's back here.
Indranil Roy recently said on Twitter operating cost of Rafales and f35 are comparable.
 

UnderFingy

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Tejas Mk2 has been the talk of the town recently when the new IAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari stated recently that 7 squadrons of Tejas Mk2 are projected for induction in the coming years while discussing the future roadmap of the Indian Air Force’s modernization plan.
???
 

MonaLazy

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they want to jump to amca after mk1a
One logical reason for that is both Mk2 & AMCA Mk1 will be available around the same time (late 2020s, early 2030s) & by then the Chinese will be fielding God only knows how many squadrons of J-20 or better. There is also the MRFA tender- between Rafale F4 (heavily localized because of a large order) & Tejas Mk2 which will be the more capable fighter?

From a PoV of balancing both air strike capability and local aviation industry makes sense to go with the more capable MWF (Rafale F4) a token order for Tejas Mk2 (a la Arjun MBT) while using the experience to refine AMCA Mk2. By 2030 we will be a $10T economy? That should help keep the more AMCAs up in the air even with higher CPFH and maintenance.

 

Okabe Rintarou

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???
Slowly reducing the numbers I see. From 200 to 180 and now down to 140. Either confidence in AMCA is increasing or the confidence in Foreign MRCA is. Either way, at the rate at which its going, the numbers will be down to 80 by the time Tejas Mk2 is readied for production.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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One logical reason for that is both Mk2 & AMCA Mk1 will be available around the same time (late 2020s, early 2030s) & by then the Chinese will be fielding God only knows how many squadrons of J-20 or better. There is also the MRFA tender- between Rafale F4 (heavily localized because of a large order) & Tejas Mk2 which will be the more capable fighter?

From a PoV of balancing both air strike capability and local aviation industry makes sense to go with the more capable MWF (Rafale F4) a token order for Tejas Mk2 (a la Arjun MBT) while using the experience to refine AMCA Mk2. By 2030 we will be a $10T economy? That should help keep the more AMCAs up in the air even with higher CPFH and maintenance.
By 2030, it would be great if we can get to $7.5-8 Trillion, forget 10. That would still give Air Force an annual acquisition budget of $20 Billion or so by 2030. Enough for many AMCA or Rafale. But if they go for that, their OPEX could balloon rather quickly post 2030. AMCA will definitely come much later than Tejas Mk2. Its best to split the order between more Rafale and Tejas Mk2 based on serious assessment of long term impact on OPEX and upgradability.
 

Covfefe

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At the risk of sounding repetitive, I will go out on a limb to say that the government should let go of this 75% stakes rule in HAL and let the company raise some capital for its working. It is obvious that they cannot fund so many projects simultaneously (they have not funded even one properly), it is only sensible to let HAL get it's finances from the market. Let a few private partners own stake in speciality labs.

Tejas Mk2 might not be important for IAF, but it is very important for DRDO and HAL.
 

FalconZero

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The present chief has completely ignored the existence of mk2 project?
Who is flaming such nonsense? Is it based on the old rumours of the first FC of IAF chief? After that he came out and specifically mentioned about MWF and DD did mention that even though media was seeding the lies out of thin year, IAF itself is backing it.
In this very thread that video of New IAF chief was posted in which he is openly naming MWF, what more people want? You can't expect him to post the video of him jerking off to the pic of MWF, it's in a development phase let's wait for its first rollout hopefully by next year.
We literally have an order of 83 Tejas Mk1a, one of the biggest indigenous deals ever signed. Why does anyone think that if MWF is ready then we will not go for it? Judging by the current behaviour of IAF, how they are supporting Tejas in development process, order of Mk1a to even for MWF and even our indigenous drone companies, anti-drone companies there's no reason to believe that they will not be supporting MWF.

Everyone knows that no amount of importgiri will be enough to meet the demands for IAF, assuming the target of 42 sqdn. Let's wait for MWF to rollout and go on with its first flight and HAL to achieve the optimum rate of production and then most of the questions will be answered automatically, nobody not even IAF chief is someone who can look into the future and see the state, lots of factors hence the unclear response. Let's stop having meltdown over same thing periodically.
 

UnderFingy

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Who is flaming such nonsense? Is it based on the old rumours of the first FC of IAF chief? After that he came out and specifically mentioned about MWF and DD did mention that even though media was seeding the lies out of thin year, IAF itself is backing it.
In this very thread that video of New IAF chief was posted in which he is openly naming MWF, what more people want? You can't expect him to post the video of him jerking off to the pic of MWF, it's in a development phase let's wait for its first rollout hopefully by next year.
We literally have an order of 83 Tejas Mk1a, one of the biggest indigenous deals ever signed. Why does anyone think that if MWF is ready then we will not go for it? Judging by the current behaviour of IAF, how they are supporting Tejas in development process, order of Mk1a to even for MWF and even our indigenous drone companies, anti-drone companies there's no reason to believe that they will not be supporting MWF.

Everyone knows that no amount of importgiri will be enough to meet the demands for IAF, assuming the target of 42 sqdn. Let's wait for MWF to rollout and go on with its first flight and HAL to achieve the optimum rate of production and then most of the questions will be answered automatically, nobody not even IAF chief is someone who can look into the future and see the state, lots of factors hence the unclear response. Let's stop having meltdown over same thing periodically.
Yes.
 

rone

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Slowly reducing the numbers I see. From 200 to 180 and now down to 140. Either confidence in AMCA is increasing or the confidence in Foreign MRCA is. Either way, at the rate at which its going, the numbers will be down to 80 by the time Tejas Mk2 is readied for production.
There is no need for instant panic if air chief not mention mk2 in his future induction list, because mk2 will be an unavoidable induction to IAF in future, from operating prospective inducting an unmatured 5th gen aircraft is more problem ridden than Mainfacturing a one, just look at USAF even they have prior experience with 5th gen they still struggle with f35 fielding, the natural way of progressive adaptation of 5th gen technology is mk1a, mk2 then amca bk1, there no other walk around and about newly found 114 mwf wet dream that is just to satisfy western block to get further advanced defense technology in to IAF, mark my words only foreign mwf coming in next decade will be additional 36 Rafela f4, and by the time MOD open order book for additional 36 f4 version, mk2 must be in IOC certification or FOC certification test so government must obligated to go for indigenous solution rather than foreign one
 
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Maharaj skandgupta

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At this pace , i assu
There is no need for instant panic if air chief not mention mk2 in his future induction list, because mk2 will be an unavoidable induction to IAF in future, from operating prospective inducting an unmatured 5th gen aircraft is more problem ridden than Mainfacturing a one, just look at USAF even they have prior experience with 5th gen they still struggle with f35 fielding, the natural way of progressive adaptation of 5th gen technology is mk1a, mk2 then amca bk1, there no other walk around and about newly found 114 mwf wet dream that is just to satisfy western block to get further advanced defense technology in to IAF, mark my words only foreign mwf coming in next decade will be additional 36 Rafela f4, and by the time MOD open order book for additional 36 f4 version, mk2 must be in IOC certification or FOC certification test so government must obligated to go for indigenous solution rather than foreign one
At this pace , the IAF will standardise it's fighter aircraft fleet before Army does the same with the array of small arms it operates . :notsure:
 

rone

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At this pace , i assu

At this pace , the IAF will standardise it's fighter aircraft fleet before Army does the same with the array of small arms it operates . :notsure:
Not at all, it's more like replacing foreign zoo with Indian zoo, mk2 will be replace m2k, and mig29 upgrade, and if we consider everything go according to plan then in 2030 the total IAF zoo will be
LCA mk1( IOC and focus), mk1a
Su 30mki ( upgrade and non upgraded)
Mig29upg ( started to downsize)
M2k ( life supported by scavenging French m2k, also in downsizing)
Jaguar ( no idea what will happen to this mostly going to out last Rafela (jk))
Mwf Tejas mk2 ( early days of induction)
Rafela ( f3 and f4)
Just look at this zoo and say is there a standardization..

In 2040 m2k, mig29 upgrade, and may be Jaguars will be replaced by mk2
 

FalconZero

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What if IAF have wet dreams of importing Su-75 ? What if they are making a case for single engine 5th gen fighter?
MWF is more real than Su75 at this point, Su75 is just a cardboard mockup based on imaginary vatnik fantasy and if IAF wants more of their aircraft falling from sky on their own then they can go ahead.

MWF is rolling out next year. And IIRC even the last air chief even prior to 'checkmate' stated that they want an aircraft with some 5th gen element for MMRCA 2.0, rafales actually fulfills that demand to an extent. IAF or India is in no situation that we can afford the clusterfuck zoo of part Rafales, part Checkmate, part Tejas and so on.

Hell we are in no situation to buy 114+ aircraft in one go, it will be probably patch purchase, most likely another follow on order for 36 Rafales and then MWF if it's ready.

Also if we didn't go for rafales and the Checkmate was actually a working aircraft then it would have more sense to go for Checkmate otherwise followon order of additional Rafales and then the remaining purchase of MWF makes more sense.
 

UnderFingy

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What if IAF have wet dreams of importing Su-75 ? What if they are making a case for single engine 5th gen fighter?
I guess Russia - China relations in the next few years will also be a factor in this?
 

doreamon

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What if IAF have wet dreams of importing Su-75 ? What if they are making a case for single engine 5th gen fighter?
Dependence on France makes sense Because it does nt have any stakes or any role in things concerning India . Buying aircraft from a country requires constant supplies and support .. We are already too much in to Russia .. How much more liverage u wld like to give them .
 

MonaLazy

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Dependence on France makes sense
Please see how France ditched Russia on US's insistence with the Mistrals. Dependence on France is ultimately dependence on Uncle Sam- so no thank you, no dependence on anyone else makes sense. If they go for 114 Rafale I hope they can make it from raw materials in India with only the most closely guarded tech coming in black boxes which can be somewhat planned for with overstocking, in case relations sour or supplies stop in a war.
 

Covfefe

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Please see how France ditched Russia on US's insistence with the Mistrals. Dependence on France is ultimately dependence on Uncle Sam- so no thank you, no dependence on anyone else makes sense. If they go for 114 Rafale I hope they can make it from raw materials in India with only the most closely guarded tech coming in black boxes which can be somewhat planned for with overstocking, in case relations sour or supplies stop in a war.
But we're dependent on Uncle Sam anyway na. Entire LCA fleet, Planned Mk2, AMCA Mk1, Apaches, Chinooks, P8Is - all have American dependence
 

doreamon

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Please see how France ditched Russia on US's insistence with the Mistrals. Dependence on France is ultimately dependence on Uncle Sam- so no thank you, no dependence on anyone else makes sense. If they go for 114 Rafale I hope they can make it from raw materials in India with only the most closely guarded tech coming in black boxes which can be somewhat planned for with overstocking, in case relations sour or supplies stop in a war.
U want it or dont want it . Either 36 more rafale or 114 fighter jets which ever is coming to India . And indo france relation cnt be equated with Russo-France . They are in different dimentions .
 

MonaLazy

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But we're dependent on Uncle Sam anyway na. Entire LCA fleet, Planned Mk2, AMCA Mk1, Apaches, Chinooks, P8Is - all have American dependence
The biggest worry for our war planners I am sure! For the next 20-30 years it is a manageable risk since they will back us against a hyper Sina- and may even be willing to part with technology they would not normally.

But after we outgrow that role & climb the power/wealth ladder- the west will start to see us suspiciously too- just like their view of China today.

U want it or dont want it
Want with adequate safeguards in place. Manufacturing from raw materials sourced locally is a good starting point.
 

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