LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Spitfire9

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Given that the UK can block 'as is' supplies of FA-50, Gripen and Tejas, I guess that the best option for Argentina is probably Spanish Mirage F1 (to be operated for a limited time) or MiG-35. Short term use of Mirage F-1 would give Argentina the option of buying a modern no 'component supplier restricted' Tejas Mk2 in the 2030's. By that time Tejas Mk2 should have an engine freeing India from UK/US political constraints on who can buy Tejas Mk2. Russia - still needed for the ejection seat - could still block supply. Unless India decided to get into the ejection seat game in the next few years and came up with an adequate product.
 

Covfefe

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Given that the UK can block 'as is' supplies of FA-50, Gripen and Tejas, I guess that the best option for Argentina is probably Spanish Mirage F1 (to be operated for a limited time) or MiG-35. Short term use of Mirage F-1 would give Argentina the option of buying a modern no 'component supplier restricted' Tejas Mk2 in the 2030's. By that time Tejas Mk2 should have an engine freeing India from UK/US political constraints on who can buy Tejas Mk2. Russia - still needed for the ejection seat - could still block supply. Unless India decided to get into the ejection seat game in the next few years and came up with an adequate product.
Mig 35 or JF17 looks the best bet as of now. Chinese go for a (and have an economic clout to do so) broader relationship as is the case with most of the current Chinese military hardware users.
 

Spitfire9

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Mig 35 or JF17 looks the best bet as of now. Chinese go for a (and have an economic clout to do so) broader relationship as is the case with most of the current Chinese military hardware users.
JF-17? It might be the best as of now but I think that China decides its future. Does China have that much interest in 4G fighter development except for political reasons where JF-17 is concerned?

If anyone is interested in reading thoughts from outsiders about Tejas/JF-17, here's a link:


Sorry, link is to page 2 instead of page 1
 

MonaLazy

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Given that the UK can block 'as is' supplies of Tejas
If India was to substitute British parts in Tejas and go ahead with the Argentinian sale how would that be perceived by UK? Enough reason to refuse future component sales to HAL? Also, will RR be forced to withdraw the next-gen jet engine co-development offer?
 

Covfefe

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JF-17? It might be the best as of now but I think that China decides its future. Does China have that much interest in 4G fighter development except for political reasons where JF-17 is concerned?
China has always looked at JF from a business standpoint and the 4-4.5 gen fighter category is here to stay for a few decades (F15 revival, Tejas Mk2, Gripen). Most of the countries cannot afford a 5th gen fighter jet. No reason as to why would China want to shelve a platform which has a good potential to replace the retiring Migs and it's clout to convert sales deals is only growing. China wants a thriving MIC and JF fits very well in that picture.
 

Spitfire9

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If India was to substitute British parts in Tejas and go ahead with the Argentinian sale how would that be perceived by UK? Enough reason to refuse future component sales to HAL? Also, will RR be forced to withdraw the next-gen jet engine co-development offer?
Simple answer is: I have no idea.

Having said that I think
(a) UK respects the wishes of inhabitants of Falkland Islands not to become Argentinian
(b) UK wants to minimise risk of Argentine military action against Falkland Islands

As said, how far UK would go to prevent arms supplies to Argentina I do not know. I suspect though that UK does not have CAATSA pretensions (countries supplying Argentina with arms are somehow sanctioned).

If Tejas were all-Indian, UK might protest about Argentina buying it but that would be as far as things would go, I think. But as to Tejas Mk1A, I don't think that Argentina would select it on the basis of HAL substituting non-British components. If all info about aircraft offered needs to be supplied by end 2021, there is not enough time for HAL to do that, is there? Is HAL going to line up different ejection seat, radome, refuelling probe suppliers in the next 2 months with pricing and delivery known? I don't think so.
 

Roland55

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If India was to substitute British parts in Tejas and go ahead with the Argentinian sale how would that be perceived by UK? Enough reason to refuse future component sales to HAL? Also, will RR be forced to withdraw the next-gen jet engine co-development offer?
Depends a lot on the political parties that are on office on both Uk and Arg, the uk could simply ignore the purchase of the 12 aircraft, or make a huge fuzz about it with the same intent of "they can be dangerous with 12 planes" type of policial BS.
Considering how such a deal would help HAL and the Tejas, the most reasonable thing to see (if such a deal happens), is that everyone gets what they want and no outside pressure is applied on the deal (the US could interviene and "dismiss Uk's worries" like the did in the 90s with the AR program)
 

Mutyala rayadu

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Is this really worth the effort for HAL to do this? time better spent on Mk2 IMHO. I assume unless the seat change gets certified Argentina wouldn't consider Tejas to be in race.

For now they would like to say Tejas is a competition to get Chinese and Ruski on their toes for better deal.
 

MonaLazy

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Is this really worth the effort
$664M = ₹ 49,68,82,32,200

Armed with this tantalising bit of info, would you like to re-assess? Not to mention the bragging rights that come with developing your own ejection seat or even fitting in an off the shelf product? Skilled manpower is the least of the problems in the second-most populous country on the planet.
 

Covfefe

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$664M = ₹ 49,68,82,32,200

Armed with this tantalising bit of info, would you like to re-assess? Not to mention the bragging rights that come with developing your own ejection seat or even fitting in an off the shelf product? Skilled manpower is the least of the problems in the second-most populous country on the planet.
Plus the spares and armament for the jets life.
And the first experience of selling a fighter jet to any country- pretty biggie
 

Mutyala rayadu

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$664M = ₹ 49,68,82,32,200

Armed with this tantalising bit of info, would you like to re-assess? Not to mention the bragging rights that come with developing your own ejection seat or even fitting in an off the shelf product? Skilled manpower is the least of the problems in the second-most populous country on the planet.
Making Mk2 by 2022 would be more bragging rights than fitting a Russian seat. Unfortunately skilled man power is a problem for India.

The money can be earned in another sector. HAL should put all the efforts and man power it has towards Mk2 and AMCA.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Making Mk2 by 2022 would be more bragging rights than fitting a Russian seat. Unfortunately skilled man power is a problem for India.

The money can be earned in another sector. HAL should put all the efforts and man power it has towards Mk2 and AMCA.
Isn't Mk2 still under ADA's ambit? What is HAL going to do in it right now?
 

Spitfire9

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Making Mk2 by 2022 would be more bragging rights than fitting a Russian seat. Unfortunately skilled man power is a problem for India.

The money can be earned in another sector. HAL should put all the efforts and man power it has towards Mk2 and AMCA.
I imagine that Mk2 will be a much better aircraft than Mk1A, so I agree. I also think that it will have much better potential for international sales if the price can be contained, so money invested in Mk2 will get a better return than money spent modifying Mk1A to gain a handful of sales to one customer.
 

MonaLazy

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I imagine that Mk2 will be a much better aircraft than Mk1A
if we can't sell them the Mk1 in the 2020s, there's little hope we can sell them Mk2 in the 2030s. We are already doing the Mk1 FOC, Mk1A, Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF together- in various stages of dev/production. Why can't we replace just an ejection seat?

BTW, doesn't the JF-17 in Paxtani service also use MB seats for ejaculation(*)? How are the Chinese able to offer it to the Argentinians? We must follow the same strategy.


 

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