LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

abingdonboy

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View attachment 114907

Such a solution already exists, it’s called the Boom Drogue Adapter Unit. It is already in service with the USAF and French Air Force. But it is much more difficult to operate and is more prone to accidents and incidents. It is also more expensive and can refuel only one aircraft at a time unlike probe and Drogue which can refuel 2 or 3 at a time.
“USAF KC-135 and French Air Force KC-135FR refueling-boom equipped tankers can be field converted to a probe-and-drogue system using a special adapter unit. In this configuration, the tanker retains its articulated boom, but has a hose/drogue at the end of it instead of the usual nozzle. The tanker boom operator holds the boom in a static position, while the receiver aircraft then flies the probe into the basket. Unlike the soft canvas basket used in most drogue systems, the adapter units use a steel basket, grimly known as the “iron maiden” by naval aviators because of its unforgiving nature. Soft drogues can be contacted slightly off center, wherein the probe is guided into the hose receptacle by the canvas drogue. The metal drogue, when contacted even slightly off center, will pivot out of place, potentially “slapping” the aircraft’s fuselage and causing damage”.

Another option is a multiple system option consisting of both the fixed boom and probe/Drogue pods on the wings. It is in service with the KC-10E.
View attachment 114909
“Some tankers have both a boom and one or more complete hose-and-drogue systems. Where these are attached to the wings, the system is known as the Multi-Point Refueling System or MPRS. The USAF KC-10 has both a flying boom and also a separate hose and drogue system manufactured by Cobham plc. Both are on the aircraft centerline at the tail of the aircraft, so only one system can be used at once. However, such a system allows all types of probe- and receptacle-equipped aircraft to be refueled in a single mission, without landing to install an adapter. Many KC-135 and some KC-10s are also equipped with dual under-wing hose-and-drogue attachments known as Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARPs).”

The second option seems to be the system we need to look at for our future needs.
The second option was what I was talking about, Boeing can obviously do it but so can Airbus:


1634401921403.png


1634401940674.png
 

Aditya Ballal

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The second option was what I was talking about, Boeing can obviously do it but so can Airbus:


View attachment 114911

View attachment 114912
But is the costs involved with an extra system and training a new position of boom operator for the fixed boom really worth it for just 2 types of aircraft? We are more likely to be involved with the US in the naval theatre and the US Naval aviation assets barring the P8i use probe and drogue.
The C17 has more than enough range for the tasks we use it for unlike the USAF.
Only the P8i can really benefit from this due to the nature of its long range patrolling duties. So maybe just a limited number of the refuellers can be configured this way to operate jointly with the navy and the boom operator can be someone from the Navy instead of the airforce
 

Trololo

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View attachment 114907

Such a solution already exists, it’s called the Boom Drogue Adapter Unit. It is already in service with the USAF and French Air Force. But it is much more difficult to operate and is more prone to accidents and incidents. It is also more expensive and can refuel only one aircraft at a time unlike probe and Drogue which can refuel 2 or 3 at a time.
“USAF KC-135 and French Air Force KC-135FR refueling-boom equipped tankers can be field converted to a probe-and-drogue system using a special adapter unit. In this configuration, the tanker retains its articulated boom, but has a hose/drogue at the end of it instead of the usual nozzle. The tanker boom operator holds the boom in a static position, while the receiver aircraft then flies the probe into the basket. Unlike the soft canvas basket used in most drogue systems, the adapter units use a steel basket, grimly known as the “iron maiden” by naval aviators because of its unforgiving nature. Soft drogues can be contacted slightly off center, wherein the probe is guided into the hose receptacle by the canvas drogue. The metal drogue, when contacted even slightly off center, will pivot out of place, potentially “slapping” the aircraft’s fuselage and causing damage”.

Another option is a multiple system option consisting of both the fixed boom and probe/Drogue pods on the wings. It is in service with the KC-10E.
View attachment 114909
“Some tankers have both a boom and one or more complete hose-and-drogue systems. Where these are attached to the wings, the system is known as the Multi-Point Refueling System or MPRS. The USAF KC-10 has both a flying boom and also a separate hose and drogue system manufactured by Cobham plc. Both are on the aircraft centerline at the tail of the aircraft, so only one system can be used at once. However, such a system allows all types of probe- and receptacle-equipped aircraft to be refueled in a single mission, without landing to install an adapter. Many KC-135 and some KC-10s are also equipped with dual under-wing hose-and-drogue attachments known as Wing Air Refueling Pods (WARPs).”

The second option seems to be the system we need to look at for our future needs.
Correct. Hoses on wings for IAF, IN, and European planes, and the boom for US origin aircraft.
 

Trololo

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But is the costs involved with an extra system and training a new position of boom operator for the fixed boom really worth it for just 2 types of aircraft? We are more likely to be involved with the US in the naval theatre and the US Naval aviation assets barring the P8i use probe and drogue.
The C17 has more than enough range for the tasks we use it for unlike the USAF.
Only the P8i can really benefit from this due to the nature of its long range patrolling duties. So maybe just a limited number of the refuellers can be configured this way to operate jointly with the navy and the boom operator can be someone from the Navy instead of the airforce
This is not an area to penny pinch about. The capability will come in handy bigtime.
 

Covfefe

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Two are getting the Astra & Uttam fitments i heard. Jammer to be trials on FOC too.
Can the Mk1 standard jets be upgraded to Mk1A standards? Or is there some major airframe and hardware changes between the two?
 

lcafanboy

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Spitfire9

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Argentine air force chief confirms that talks have started with India for HAL Tejas combat aircraft, alongside talks with other contenders.

Says current Russian and Chinese offers (JF-17) lacks in performance, weapons and logistical support paramenters

Cannot quote the original (blocked) but the text says that fullest details on the offers are being sought by end 2021 to be passed to the MOD in the first trimester of 2022 to be able to make a choice and financing for that choice. So no decision this year.
 

abingdonboy

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To a degree or can be done... But that'll need full overhauling. MLU maybe, not before that.

Otherwise much of the Mark1A tech is going to find themselves on FOC as testbeds?
In terms or performance specs FOC MK1s can be updated to MK1A with a couple of day’s worth of work.

The only thing that won’t be worth doing is the swapping out of the improved LRUs on the MK1A so the MK1s will still be less maintainable as compared to the MK1As. Other than that in the air they’ll deliver near identical performance
 

abingdonboy

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Argentine air force chief confirms that talks have started with India for HAL Tejas combat aircraft, alongside talks with other contenders.

Says current Russian and Chinese offers (JF-17) lacks in performance, weapons and logistical support paramenters

The Martin baker issue will still be there along with the Cobham origin radome and AAR probe.

I wonder if GoI can use their new found diplomatic hold over the U.K. to get them to look the other way, I doubt it.
 

FalconZero

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Says current Russian and Chinese offers (JF-17) lacks in performance, weapons and logistical support paramenters
rolland already shared that article few pages back and nowhere he said that, indian media will again have egg on their face with retarded claims.

He only mentions that main contenders are Mig29, Chinese JF17 and that India has approached them they are looking for more details.
 

abingdonboy

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rolland already shared that article few pages back and nowhere he said that, indian media will again have egg on their face with retarded claims.

He only mentions that main contenders are Mig29, Chinese JF17 and that India has approached them they are looking for more details.
Those in glass houses

A few weeks back paki media was declaring another export sale for the JF-17 to Argentina
 

ajay7322

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rolland already shared that article few pages back and nowhere he said that, indian media will again have egg on their face with retarded claims.

He only mentions that main contenders are Mig29, Chinese JF17 and that India has approached them they are looking for more details.
It's not reported by Indian media source is of their own country have a look at this post.


Edit: Translation of particular question.

IMG_20211017_190117.jpg
 

FalconZero

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Those in glass houses

A few weeks back paki media was declaring another export sale for the JF-17 to Argentina
Okay we are moving to OT and this will be the last comment on this news, but it's not the competition to be the most retarded news agency though both sides excel in that. Pakis did that doesn't mean we should do it. That's it.

I hate the hyperbolic and recycled lies because it never helps. People have already discussed to the death why and what are the challenges are being faced by Tejas for exports to Argentina and the article shared gives two mentions or three about Tejas and other aircraft and rest is more about the policy of Argentina than anything.

Nowhere it says anything negative about any aircraft other than that they are looking to gather all the details for now.

I like Tejas and would support it to the death, no reason not to honestly but not based on such hyperbolic lies of media.
 

FalconZero

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It's not reported by Indian media source is of their own country have a look at this post.


Edit: Translation of particular question.

View attachment 114997
I have read it multiple times, where does it mention that JF17 or mig 29 lack in performance? Anyway leave it. Thank you for posting translation for everyone to see.
 

ajay7322

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Okay we are moving to OT and this will be the last comment on this news, but it's not the competition to be the most retarded news agency though both sides excel in that. Pakis did that doesn't mean we should do it. That's it.

I hate the hyperbolic and recycled lies because it never helps. People have already discussed to the death why and what are the challenges are being faced by Tejas for exports to Argentina and the article shared gives two mentions or three about Tejas and other aircraft and rest is more about the policy of Argentina than anything.

Nowhere it says anything negative about any aircraft other than that they are looking to gather all the details for now.

I like Tejas and would support it to the death, no reason not to honestly but not based on such hyperbolic lies of media.
Care to share the reports from Indian media first which you are referring to?
 

ajay7322

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I have read it multiple times, where does it mention that JF17 or mig 29 lack in performance? Anyway leave it. Thank you for posting translation for everyone to see.
The translation you saw in the post I shared the link of which was from Wolfpack.

Not from Indian media again, he specifically mentions the source in comments.

 

FalconZero

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Care to share the reports from Indian media first which you are referring to?
The translation you saw in the post I shared the link of which was from Wolfpack.

Not from Indian media again, he specifically mentions the source in comments.

Yeah i was referring to this and @lcafanboy 's comment. I even quoted @lcafanboy 's comment where i said that no such things was done and probably it was spun by Indian Media. Did you post it in Pakistan thread too? Cuz iirc i saw it there so assumed that indian media was recycling the old news like that.
 

ajay7322

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Yeah i was referring to this and @lcafanboy 's comment. I even quoted @lcafanboy 's comment where i said that no such things was done and probably it was spun by Indian Media. Did you post it in Pakistan thread too? Cuz iirc i saw it there so assumed that indian media was recycling the old news like that.
No I didn't I am just asking to you to point from where did you bring Indian media from? The all news here shared was from this article shared here only and that is not Indian media and for your question of from where did the Wolfpack came to conclusion of Logistics and other issue read from "Some offers...." In the translation I shared.

Edit- Wolfpack just misinterpreted his comments that's it nothing else
 

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