LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Flying Dagger]

Noob Question: Why MK1 integration with Python prioritized?

Shouldn't the priority be Derby-ER (Simpler I guess), ASTRA, Gun possibly.

Best of the line IR missile for CCM plus cost benefit over expensive ASRAAM.

Other than that having advantage during war in case we runout of missile we can look at friendly nation to provide us from their stock.

 

[Flying Dagger]

If Derby-ER is used then using Python-5 over ASRAAM is preferable (R-73 has failed to even hit flares in exercises)... But with Astra Mk1, ASRAAM would be the better partner.

I think this is how these missiles are going to be used.

Python : under 30 km

ASRAAM under 40/50 km Derby under 50 km Astra mk1

Derby ER under 100 km

 

[Bleh]

I think this is how these missiles are going to be used.

Python : under 30 km

ASRAAM under 40/50 km Derby under 50 km Astra mk1

Derby ER under 100 km

There's rarely that much (unnecessary) variety.

Astra outranges regular Derby... Could probably be used upto 100km. And ASRAAM would make Python-5 redundant at IR guided launches under 50km. If ASRAAM is to be standardised over IAF fleet, then Derby won't enjoy much cost advantage either.
Plus it will only be used if ASRAAM is not & Derby-ER is (for logistics reasons).

That makes me think Derby/Python combo just a stopgap option until Astra Mk2/IR & ASRAAM are available in numbers.

 

[WARREN SS]

There's rarely that much (unnecessary) variety.

Astra outranges regular Derby... Could probably be used upto 100km. And ASRAAM would make Python-5 redundant at IR guided launches under 50km. If ASRAAM is to be standardised over IAF fleet, then Derby won't enjoy much cost advantage either.
Plus it will only be used if ASRAAM is not & Derby-ER is (for logistics reasons).

That makes me think Derby/Python combo just a stopgap option until Astra Mk2/IR & ASRAAM are available in numbers.

Point is technically Derby is 1 stage ahead as it uses dual pulse motor that gives you edge in NEZ


So we have to wait for Astra mk2.

Brochure range of missile is count less
What matter is NEZ of missile.

Astra mk1 is par with AIM-120C5
In nez though its has better Seeker and ECCM capabilities.

MICA RF is also good contender with 360 degree lock on ability dur TVC
And good NEZ
Its EM version is will be out with Rafale F4


ASRAAM and MICA will be good combo
Compared to Derby/Asraam.

As both are MBDA products.

We need to build a Air supriorty Formation based
On technology.
I find LCA will integrate better with Rafale than MKI.

Because both are Delta's and use western technologies.

 

[Abhay Rajput 02]

what is the radar range of tejas mk1a . el/m2052 ?

 

[Flying Dagger]

There's rarely that much (unnecessary) variety.

Astra outranges regular Derby... Could probably be used upto 100km. And ASRAAM would make Python-5 redundant at IR guided launches under 50km. If ASRAAM is to be standardised over IAF fleet, then Derby won't enjoy much cost advantage either.
Plus it will only be used if ASRAAM is not & Derby-ER is (for logistics reasons).

That makes me think Derby/Python combo just a stopgap option until Astra Mk2/IR & ASRAAM are available in numbers.

Astra mk1 max range is 110 km so I doubt it will be use for 100 km range

Even Derby ER range is similar to AIM 120 D But 100km is the quoted range because that's where the missile will be useful. Similarly Derby range is more than 50 km but use under 50 km.

Since there is no use firing a missile at its max range.

 

[WARREN SS]

what is the radar range of tejas mk1a . el/m2052 ?

Something btw 150 -180 km for 1m2 rcs
Depends on peak power and TRM modules configuration.

 

[Cruise missile]

Can any one tell me why some A2A missile have TVC while some don't.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Can any one tell me why some A2A missile have TVC while some don't.

Generally short range CCM needs it to compensate for poorly launched angle. Many missile like Mica which are bvr use them too since MICA IR is both CCM and bvr with range upto 60 km.

Under 30 km : CCM

Increase in cost is another factor.

Python use controlling surfaces instead of TVC .

Let me give you an e.g. of two missiles coming out of European stable.

ASRAAM is a BVR where UK believe range is more important due to their experience in Falklands war. Australia has also deployed it as for them too range was more important. Range under 50 km

But another missile IRIS T with TVC from Germany and co emphasized on CCM so they wanted a more agile missile. With range under 30 km


Out of these MICA IR is a better missile which compensated for both by having a 60 km range missile with TVC but it's cost is pretty high to operate in large numbers.

Remember war is a game of economics too.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Something btw 150 -180 km for 1m2 rcs
Depends on peak power and TRM modules configuration.

What's the source ?

 

[WARREN SS]

What's the source ?

Go back to LCA previous pages you will see it.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Go back to LCA previous pages you will see it.

I have been to every page no such thing here.

 

[WARREN SS]

I have been to every page no such thing here.

You can easily find it on other forum like BRF
And SF
Here is the link

Try harder next time

HAL to test ELM-2052 AESA on LCA-Tejas, while Deal hangs on for 83 Jets - Defence News India

Defense PSU Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) will be integrating an ELTA’s ELM-2052 Airborne AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) procured originally for the Jaguar Display Attack Ranging Inertial Navigation (DARIN III) upgrade program in its preparation for the manufacturing upgraded 83 Tejas Mk1A

www.defenceaviationpost.com

[/URL]

 

[WARREN SS]

I have been to every page no such thing here.

Here is a past discussion

LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

This is why I want to cancel MK1A , the base version MK1 is very sluggish , the Air Intake limits it's performance . We should go for ORCA and MWF instead. If we using mk1 only point defence then its acceptable Eh ! Any jet will be sluggish with that many bombs on pylon. Mk1a will be beast in...

defenceforumindia.com

One more

How Tejas aircraft with Meteor, EL/M 2052 and High Band Jammer will be a game changer for IAF?

Tejas aircraft will soon be integrated with Meteor EL/M 2052 AESA radar and high band jammer. Earlier Tejas aircraft was not able to exploit the full capability of Meteor missile as it was armed wi…

www.google.com

 

[Flying Dagger]

You can easily find it on other forum like BRF
And SF
Here is the link

Try harder next time

HAL to test ELM-2052 AESA on LCA-Tejas, while Deal hangs on for 83 Jets - Defence News India

Defense PSU Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) will be integrating an ELTA’s ELM-2052 Airborne AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) procured originally for the Jaguar Display Attack Ranging Inertial Navigation (DARIN III) upgrade program in its preparation for the manufacturing upgraded 83 Tejas Mk1A

www.defenceaviationpost.com

[/URL]

This link redirect to another one...

Here is a past discussion

LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

This is why I want to cancel MK1A , the base version MK1 is very sluggish , the Air Intake limits it's performance . We should go for ORCA and MWF instead. If we using mk1 only point defence then its acceptable Eh ! Any jet will be sluggish with that many bombs on pylon. Mk1a will be beast in...

defenceforumindia.com

One more

How Tejas aircraft with Meteor, EL/M 2052 and High Band Jammer will be a game changer for IAF?

Tejas aircraft will soon be integrated with Meteor EL/M 2052 AESA radar and high band jammer. Earlier Tejas aircraft was not able to exploit the full capability of Meteor missile as it was armed wi…

www.google.com

The DFI link you posted don't give any link or source for 1m2 for 180 km claim. Infact post by Karthi only provide official estimate and debunk your own claim.

The other one is just a reproduced article even they mention it is just a rumor.


Tejas TRM will be around 800-850 max not 1500 . Jags have 700-750 around which was confirmed by HVT on twitter.

Even Rafale with slightly bigger nose don't have 1500 but 854 with max capability of 1000 TRM which it might have now.

Elta is a GaS based AESA though it might be possible by the time Mk1a come into play they will introduce GaN version. Then we may be able to add 50-70% on the range .

But 180 km for 1 m2 ?

 

[WARREN SS]

This link redirect to another one...




The DFI link you posted don't give any link or source for 1m2 for 180 km claim. Infact post by Karthi only provide official estimate and debunk your own claim.

The other one is just a reproduced article even they mention it is just a rumor.


Tejas TRM will be around 800-850 max not 1500 . Jags have 700-750 around which was confirmed by HVT on twitter.

Even Rafale with slightly bigger nose don't have 1500 but 854 with max capability of 1000 TRM which it might have now.

Elta is a GaS based AESA though it might be possible by the time Mk1a come into play they will introduce GaN version. Then we may be able to add 50-70% on the range .

But 180 km for 1 m2 ?

I quoted 150-180km for 1m2
Read again

Its assumed figure just like 150-200 km 1m2

So far its not confirmed by any source that what will the TRM configuration
For m1A

All are assumptions based discussions by various defense enthusiasts and defense experts



Isn't your are the poster
Who claimed elta range is 150 for 3 m2
Then deleted your own post later

When its clear that all western experts
Calculate there radars detections on universal 1m2 RCS figure.

LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Derby ER is tested ? From which platform ? Derby ER is not yet integrated as per my information. Is it even operational in Israel air force ? It is operational with Israel. Also they are integrating it with SPYDER. Derby ER is essentially the same missile but improved with dual pulse rocket to...

defenceforumindia.com

PS:Its GAas not GAs ment for Gallium arsenide (GaAs) which is semiconductor material

 

[WARREN SS]

This link redirect to another one...




The DFI link you posted don't give any link or source for 1m2 for 180 km claim. Infact post by Karthi only provide official estimate and debunk your own claim.

The other one is just a reproduced article even they mention it is just a rumor.


Tejas TRM will be around 800-850 max not 1500 . Jags have 700-750 around which was confirmed by HVT on twitter.

Even Rafale with slightly bigger nose don't have 1500 but 854 with max capability of 1000 TRM which it might have now.

Elta is a GaS based AESA though it might be possible by the time Mk1a come into play they will introduce GaN version. Then we may be able to add 50-70% on the range .

But 180 km for 1 m2 ?

I already answered your question last time
Now I remembered you
Discussed in from page 155 to 160
On noose cone

It Doesn't Matter Even With 100 Km Tracking Is Enough For fighter Like LCA Due to its Low RCS
And T/R modules Will 1000 T/R Similar to Vixen

Nose cone Of LCA Is Similar To Gripen- E

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

i dont know if theres a JF-17 thread here but this is crazy.

Ye documents kaise mil jate hai lol

 

[Flying Dagger]

I quoted 150-180km for 1m2
Read again

Its assumed figure just like 150-200 km 1m2

So far its not confirmed by any source that what will the TRM configuration
For m1A

All are assumptions based discussions by various defense enthusiasts and defense experts



Isn't your are the poster
Who claimed elta range is 150 for 3 m2
Then deleted your own post later

When its clear that all western experts
Calculate there radars detections on universal RCS figure.

LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Derby ER is tested ? From which platform ? Derby ER is not yet integrated as per my information. Is it even operational in Israel air force ? It is operational with Israel. Also they are integrating it with SPYDER. Derby ER is essentially the same missile but improved with dual pulse rocket to...

defenceforumindia.com

PS:Its GAas not GAs ment for Gallium arsenide (GaAs) which is semiconductor material

Not assumed by any source what will be the TRM ?



Between before you pour more of your knowledge visit Twitter feed of HVT who is test pilot of HAL .

+ Slight correction on jag TR modules of Elta 2052 AESA arent 750 but lesser.


One can guesstimate by the size of Tejas Nose in comparison to Jags or Rafale how many TR they may have since both Elta and European radars are of comparable gen when it comes to packing of tr module.


So 750-850 TR modules is what Tejas may have.

Even Rafale doesn't have 1500 .


Isn't you are the poster ?

What does that fcukin mean ??

I don't recall but if I have deleted something that means I have deleted it.

Regarding 150 km for 3 M2 target thats a realistic range considering 2 or 3 M2 is considered to be fighter size target

And my post is right there there even there I have confirm the TR modules are around 800.

With UTTAM AESA We may have slightly higher TR since it will be designed from the beginning to fit on the nose cone of Tejas.

And why I am saying 180 km ?

Well just went through the old post there you mentioned 180-250 km range for 1m2 . Just wondering how did this 70 km reduction in range happens?

 

[WARREN SS]

Not assumed by any source what will be the TRM ?



Between before you pour more of your knowledge visit Twitter feed of HVT who is test pilot of HAL .

+ Slight correction on jag TR modules of Elta 2052 AESA arent 750 but lesser.


One can guesstimate by the size of Tejas Nose in comparison to Jags or Rafale how many TR they may have since both Elta and European radars are of comparable gen when it comes to packing of tr module.


So 750-850 TR modules is what Tejas may have.

Even Rafale doesn't have 1500 .


Isn't you are the poster ?

What does that fcukin mean ??

I don't recall but if I have deleted something that means I have deleted it.

Regarding 150 km for 3 M2 target thats a realistic range considering 2 or 3 M2 is considered to be fighter size target

And my post is right there there even there I have confirm the TR modules are around 800.

With UTTAM AESA We may have slightly higher TR since it will be designed from the beginning to fit on the nose cone of Tejas.

Realistic range
Or assumed

First learn
1m2 is official recognized
Figure for all radar calculations For western radars



Whether its APG 80 or Captor or RBE2 of Thales

Gripen has 1000 TRM modules for same nose cone
For Vixen

Like I said all are source based assumptions
It's still not confirmed what will be TRM configuration of LCA mk1A

Like I explained you. all claims are conjecture & source based information by defense experts

Military or OEM will never do de classification of trade and military secrets like Radar range
Or detections or rcs figures

Point is, you are just pointing out me
When all defense experts do rumor based reporting and discussions
Based on sources

"Vo kare toh chamatkaar hum kare to Balaatkar"