LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[WarriorIndian]

Tejas MK1 combat radius is around 500 km. This will increase with MK1A and MK2 versions. Now a Brahmos-NG, with even a 300 km range (will be greater than that), will allow Tejas to strike targets at a minimum of 800 km. That covers entire Pakistan and Ttibet region if Tejas takes off from forward bases. A low RCS small and nimble aircraft like Tejas, will be a nightmare for enemy forward ADS.

Ok, so Brahmos is gonna be an ad hoc on Tejas and would not be a standard. We have better aircrafts to take care of the strike, as we have seen with Balakot, IAF did not shy away from taking in the big boys with supposedly large RCS but if you look closely, where we failed was in point area defense as Mig-21 was all what we had up in the air. Had there been Tejas, the situation would have been well very different.

I am not sure if IAF wants Tejas to be a true multirole aircraft with capabilities beyond point area defense. Its going to be a beasty little aircraft then.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Ok, so Brahmos is gonna be an ad hoc on Tejas and would not be a standard. We have better aircrafts to take care of the strike, as we have seen with Balakot, IAF did not shy away from taking in the big boys with supposedly large RCS but if you look closely, where we failed was in point area defense as Mig-21 was all what we had up in the air. Had there been Tejas, the situation would have been well very different.

I am not sure if IAF wants Tejas to be a true multirole aircraft with capabilities beyond point area defense. Its going to be a beasty little aircraft then.

Weapon load depends on mission configuration. All Mk2 will get Brahmos NG and will be able to carry out strike on their own .

Remember they'll be replacing entire fleet of Migs and Mirages eventually until AMCA arrives.

 

[no smoking]

You probably did not understand the direction of the debate. There was speculation that the IAF wanted changes frequently which means that the configuration was not kept frozen. Some tug of war is taking place. If suddenly for example the Air Force wants all aircraft to have retractable refuelling probes then redesigning will have to be done. The production process will slow down. I believe the Mk1 design should be and is frozen.

That is the issue, can you please provide the source that IAF is insisting adding in new requirement in Tejas MK1 even after FOC was given.

As far as manufacturing is concerned allowance is made for acceptable deviation in the process and tolerances are set. So within the accepted limits very small deviations are OK. This is common knowledge. Here we are talking of large deviations where in two Tejas Mk1 aircraft cannot interchange their parts which is unacceptable.

Not that simple, not just because there is an allowance was given, every supplier can produce their own part within their acceptable deviation range immediately. It requires time and effort, they need adjust their machine, modes, processing procedure and even new skill training or purchasing new machine. In the middle of this process, the products rolled out may have different size, deviation, quality, etc.

Also, the allowance can't be given, it is concluded among different components, capability of suppliers. the supplier of component A may be unable to reach the original deviation allowance at acceptable cost, then it may require supplier B to narrow their deviation range as they have the capability to make further reduction. And also, you have to sort out the weight, strength, cost, etc, etc.

That is why it generally takes years for manufacturer to turn a prototype version into a mass production version.

It is very natural that the same parts from 2 Tejas can't replace each other if the manufacturer hasn't finished the mass production version.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Interesting screengrab...
View attachment 72636

Derby..

 

[Bleh]

Derby..

No. Python-5

 

[Arihant Roy]

This is simply amazing . What a great shot .

 

[Tridev123]

That is the issue, can you please provide the source that IAF is insisting adding in new requirement in Tejas MK1 even after FOC was given.



Not that simple, not just because there is an allowance was given, every supplier can produce their own part within their acceptable deviation range immediately. It requires time and effort, they need adjust their machine, modes, processing procedure and even new skill training or purchasing new machine. In the middle of this process, the products rolled out may have different size, deviation, quality, etc.

Also, the allowance can't be given, it is concluded among different components, capability of suppliers. the supplier of component A may be unable to reach the original deviation allowance at acceptable cost, then it may require supplier B to narrow their deviation range as they have the capability to make further reduction. And also, you have to sort out the weight, strength, cost, etc, etc.

That is why it generally takes years for manufacturer to turn a prototype version into a mass production version.

It is very natural that the same parts from 2 Tejas can't replace each other if the manufacturer hasn't finished the mass production version.

Why are you making the issue more complicated.
HAL would have done background checks on vendors. It is not that the vendors have just taken birth and are still crawling on all fours on the ground. They would have already had some manufacturing experience in the relevant areas.

The discussion taking place in the forum is an honest attempt to exchange ideas, spot shortcomings and suggest improvements. This should not be misunderstood and exploited by Chinese members to try to make us look bad.

We are an active democracy unlike the one party dictatorship of China. I gather this type of criticism of the system is alien to China. The CCP version is the only allowed story there. There would be defects in many Chinese weapons but the public there is kept ignorant of the realities.

Some of the more glaring failures are the carrier jet J15 which is too underpowered and big to carry any useful load and Chinese drones which cannot operate effectively in very high altitudes because deicing capability is absent.

And we have seen reports that the PLA is all set to junk the present bull pup assault rifle because optical sights cannot be easily mounted. A new rifle adopted just a decade ago is going to be junked for a non bull pup alternative.

There are many more such stories of Chinese blunders. Only thing is that the Chinese public are kept deaf and dumb and not allowed to discuss shortcomings in their weapon systems.

 

[no smoking]

Why are you making the issue more complicated.
HAL would have done background checks on vendors. It is not that the vendors have just taken birth and are still crawling on all fours on the ground. They would have already had some manufacturing experience in the relevant areas.

......

There are many more such stories of Chinese blunders. Only thing is that the Chinese public are kept deaf and dumb and not allowed to discuss shortcomings in their weapon systems.

Ok, ok, you are right. HAL and India are the most advanced players on this planet, you guys just don't need to go through the whole transformation stage from prototype version to mass production version, which is a must stage for every country in development of every plane.

 

[WolfPack86]

CCS TO SOON INK DEAL FOR 83 TEJAS MK-1A FIGHTER JETS WORTH OVER RS 37,000 CRORE
NEW DELHI: India is gearing up for a long-pending military aircraft deal. The contract for 83 indigenous TEJAS fighters is set to be inked within the next few months.


The over Rs 37,000 crore order for 83 TEJAS MK-1A jets from defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd will be the biggest-ever deal in the indigenous military aviation sector. These 83 fighters, the deliveries of which will begin three years after the contract is inked, will have 43 “improvements” over the 40 TEJAS MK-1 (totalling 123 jets) already ordered by the IAF.

The project have been sent to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for the final approval. “The TEJAS contract is likely to be inked in early-February.” said an official on Tuesday.

The overall cost of acquiring the 83 single-engine TEJAS fighters and their support package has been cut down from the earlier around Rs 56,500 crore being demanded by HAL after protracted negotiations, as was reported by IDN last year.

The IAF’s two TEJAS squadrons, the “Flying Daggers” and “Flying Bullets” at Sulur, have till now inducted only around 20of the original 40 TEJAS MK-1 fighters, which were all slated for delivery by December 2016 under two contracts worth Rs 8,802 crore inked earlier.

The 83 TEJAS MK-1A fighters will have 43 “improvements” to improve maintainability, AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar to replace existing mechanically-steered radar, air-to-air refuelling, long-range BVR (Beyond Visual Range) missiles and advanced electronic warfare to jam enemy radars and missiles.

After these 123 fighters, IAF is also looking to induct 170 TEJAS MK-2 or the MWF (Medium Weight Fighter) jets with more powerful engines and advanced avionics. But IAF is banking upon the first 123 TEJAS to add to its fighter squadrons, which is down to just 30 (each has 18 jets) when at least 42 are required for the requisite deterrence against Pakistan and China.

“It is great news that the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has completed 20 years of flying since its first flight. I am happy to share that the project is progressing at HAL very well as we now have augmented production capacity of 10 to 12 LCAs per year, with exclusive production facilities in Bangalore. We have also developed partners for the supply of major structural assemblies.

A new facility, spread across 35 acres, with a built-up area of over 34,000 square metres (sq. m.), is being made ready for production of structural assemblies of the advanced variant of Tejas - LCA Mk1A. This facility will be in full-fledged operation from FY 2021-22 onwards. The HAL will be able to produce 16 aircraft per year from 2022-23 onwards to match with deliveries against the 83 LCA order,” said R Madhavan , HAL Chairman and Managing Director R Madhavan.

CCS To Soon Ink Deal For 83 TEJAS MK-1A Fighter Jets Worth Over Rs 37,000 Crore

NEW DELHI: India is gearing up for a long-pending military aircraft deal. The contract for 83 indigenous TEJAS fighters is set to be inked ...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Bleh]

Landing gears... more to follow.

 

[Cruise missile]

Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas.
The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version.

Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas

The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version Ajay BanerjeeTribune News ServiceNew Delhi, January 9

www.google.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

That is the issue, can you please provide the source that IAF is insisting adding in new requirement in Tejas MK1 even after FOC was given.



Not that simple, not just because there is an allowance was given, every supplier can produce their own part within their acceptable deviation range immediately. It requires time and effort, they need adjust their machine, modes, processing procedure and even new skill training or purchasing new machine. In the middle of this process, the products rolled out may have different size, deviation, quality, etc.

Also, the allowance can't be given, it is concluded among different components, capability of suppliers. the supplier of component A may be unable to reach the original deviation allowance at acceptable cost, then it may require supplier B to narrow their deviation range as they have the capability to make further reduction. And also, you have to sort out the weight, strength, cost, etc, etc.

That is why it generally takes years for manufacturer to turn a prototype version into a mass production version.

It is very natural that the same parts from 2 Tejas can't replace each other if the manufacturer hasn't finished the mass production version.

Wrong. These days prototype-to-production manufacturing time has come down considerably with the advent of 3D printers, super computer powered CAD/CAM simulation models, advanced CNC machines, integrated supply chains with agile collaborative work. You must remember that India is an A grade manufacturing power with access to vast ecosystems of high quality component manufacturers, many of whom use the techniques I quoted above. Your assumption that it takes historical prototype-to-production times does not hold good for a relatively advanced manufacturing country like India.

 

[dumdumdum]

Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas.
The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version.

Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas

The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version Ajay BanerjeeTribune News ServiceNew Delhi, January 9

www.google.com

These articles have become tiresome now as none of them has any answer to most important question "When?".

 

[jik60]

These articles have become tiresome now as none of them has any answer to most important question "When?".

It says coming this week.

 

[Killbot]

It says coming this week.

He isn't talking about the bureaucratic or political BS. He's talking about the aircraft itself.

 

[WolfPack86]

CABINET PANEL TO TAKE CALL ON UPGRADED TEJAS
The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version


Ending the long wait on ordering an improved version of the Light Combat Aircraft TEJAS, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is expected to take a formal call on the Rs 38,800 crore ($5.1 billion) project for making 83 such jets over the next six-seven years.

The move comes almost 10 months after the Defence Acquisition Council in March 2020 announced “the procurement of 83 more advanced Mark-1A version of the aircraft (TEJAS)”. The decision of the DAC will need to be ratified by the CCS, which is headed by PM Narendra Modi. The CCS is expected to take up the matter next week, sources said.

The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version and two of limited series production jets are conducting trials. Among the other improvements, the major improvements are to enhance operational capability.

These include easier maintenance, active electronically scanned array radar, electronic warfare suite and beyond-visual range missile capabilities, that will include the Indian made air-to-air missile Astra MK-1. It will also have the ability to carry missiles for long range.

The move, once okayed, will take the number of TEJAS jets on order to 123 jets —in three variants, all powered by a general electric engine. So far 20 have been made in what is called the initial operational clearance version. Another 20 are being made in what is called the final operational clearance version. The remaining 83 will be called the TEJAS MK-1A.

The Aeronautical Development Agency under the DRDO has designed the plane while Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is the manufacturer.

Cabinet Panel To Take Call On Upgraded Tejas

The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version Ending the long wait on ordering an improved version of the Light Combat Air...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Cruise missile]

 

[Tridev123]

These articles have become tiresome now as none of them has any answer to most important question "When?".

I sense a lot of frustration about the elusive order for the 83 Tejas mk1a.
Datelines have been missed repeatedly. Tareek par Tareek.

Though not openly stated I guess India is reluctant to have hundreds of jets flying on US origin engines. There is still insufficient trust on the US to have front line combat aircraft using American engines.

Considering the situation two alternative engines can be considered
1.French M88 - 3 engine(planned thrust about 93kn)
2.Russian RD93MA engine (planned thrust about 92 kn)
Both engines designed for Single Engine Fighters.

How ready these engines are is a question mark.

Meanwhile we should continue our attempt to develop the Kaveri or its successor.

 

[patriots]

Python 5 will be again fired from Tejas
Then gun trial
Then astra mk1 trial from Tejas..... planned after aero India 2021
43 improvement s .. coming with mk1a...
And it's take time..
2 lsps are being modified
And radar and other subsystems are being tested in rig..... before the finally fit on test bed ......as mk1a prototype........

 

[Cruise missile]

Python 5 will be again fired from Tejas
Then gun trial
Then astra mk1 trial from Tejas..... planned after aero India 2021
43 improvement s .. coming with mk1a...
And it's take time..
2 lsps are being modified
And radar and other subsystems are being tested in rig..... before the finally fit on test bed ......as mk1a prototype........

Are you sure it will enter production in 2023.