LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Bleh]

GE isn't going to be willing to transfer technology of their crown jewel. They won't even give ToT for GE404, let alone 414.

Says who?.. Several countries are already manufacturing versions of 404 & 414, namely Sweden & S.Korea...

 

[Tridev123]

I think by transfer of technology he meant that even the hot section of the engine. There should be no need to import anything from the OEM including the specialised alloys which are used in the core.

If this is the case please give a source. I seriously doubt whether Washington will have transferred 100% of the technology including the materials sciences part.

 

[warriorextreme]

What the fuck is this shit about reverse engineering.
We already have a Engine that delivers 80% to 85% of the required thrust on the very first try.
All that is left is fine tuning the engine that will require some more effort and time.
If GTRE license and Trains the pvt sector than may be they will be able to master low thrust engine.
It's a gradual process America has an ecosystem for all engine related tech developed over 100 years.
Same ecosystem should be created here.

And that ecosystem can't be limited to one organisation GTRE and DRDO or else it will be failure like the Soviet model.

I hope at least Ghatak gets powered by Dry Kaveri engine, we must not let Kaveri program hit the wall.

 

[WarriorIndian]

Even if you do with the design and software good luck reversing the metallurgy.

Well you are right, but for a country like India with a decent scientific advancement, it would not be all that difficult. If you can get the services of a good testing laboratory, they can perform a structure property correlation and advise suitably on selection of materials, processes and inspection. You can identify the type of material, but to analyze its grade, you need some good thinking, minds for which India has.

 

[shade]

Says who?.. Several countries are already manufacturing versions of 404 & 414, namely Sweden & S.Korea...

Waise toh even the HAL facility in Koraput, Orissa "manufactures" the engines for the Su30, but it's clear ruskies have us on the leash for importing some special alloy used in the engine from them, or importing the turbine blades, etc.

imo these sort of technologies will never be "licensed" to third parties, considering only ~4 countries in the world have companies that produce fighter jet grade engine types.

If you want this tech I guess you need to have a big budget, acquire big brain materials engineering scientists from India and abroad, have an industrial espionage program, reverse engineer existing engines etc like how the Choynees do

 

[Bleh]

Waise toh even the HAL facility in Koraput, Orissa "manufactures" the engines for the Su30, but it's clear ruskies have us on the leash for importing some special alloy used in the engine from them, or importing the turbine blades, etc.

imo these sort of technologies will never be "licensed" to third parties, considering only ~4 countries in the world have companies that produce fighter jet grade engine types.

If you want this tech I guess you need to have a big budget, acquire big brain materials engineering scientists from India and abroad, have an industrial espionage program, reverse engineer existing engines etc like how the Choynees do

India actually has the basics to make jet engine... obviously hit some technological roadblocks along the way, but we should be in a position to absorb or emulate their tech

 

[Salyut]

I am Vietnamese, when I look at the Indian defense industry, I see a lot of panic, corruption, underdevelopment. Most people I know think that way!
Nearly all of India's weapons are expensive technology acquisition or cooperation. India seems like a goldmine for military contractors!
I think India lags> 30 years behind China in military technology. These are honest shares!

 

[shade]

India actually has the basics to make jet engine... obviously hit some technological roadblocks along the way, but we should be in a position to absorb or emulate their tech

We don't have one basic that is a big budget, without $$$ nothing happens.
You want a globally competitive jet engine, you have to spend globally competitive sums also.
GoI's historically have been very stingy with this type of R&D or manufacturing expenses, and Kaveri engine/GTRE is obviously not on the top of the priority list so..

 

[patriots]

I am Vietnamese, when I look at the Indian defense industry, I see a lot of panic, corruption, underdevelopment. Most people I know think that way!
Nearly all of India's weapons are expensive technology acquisition or cooperation. India seems like a goldmine for military contractors!
I think India lags> 30 years behind China in military technology. These are honest shares!

Ok Indian weapons are costly .... because of quality....
Quality comes with cost....

Show me an example where India is 30 years behind from China......we are behind them no doubt.......

 

[Salyut]

Ok Indian weapons are costly .... because of quality....
Quality comes with cost....

Show me an example where India is 30 years behind from China......we are behind them no doubt.......

Indian weapons are expensive because you buy them, and are blackmailed by world military contractors. No doubt, because you desperately need weapons against Pakistan and China. You have no choice but to buy expensive weapons or lose.
Take the Su30 example. China and India seem to be getting the Su30s and assembling them domestically at the same time, and very quickly China moves in on replicas, from consumables to electronics, airframe, engines, and Finally, the complete plane. That's the way India must go, if you do it well, you can get a copy of the Su30 now or in the near future!
I doubt India can copy the Su30!
Sorry for the bad English!

 

[patriots]

Indian weapons are expensive because you buy them, and are blackmailed by world military contractors. No doubt, because you desperately need weapons against Pakistan and China. You have no choice but to buy expensive weapons or lose.
Take the Su30 example. China and India seem to be getting the Su30s and assembling them domestically at the same time, and very quickly China moves in on replicas, from consumables to electronics, airframe, engines, and Finally, the complete plane. That's the way India must go, if you do it well, you can get a copy of the Su30 now or in the near future!
I doubt India can afford the Su30!

Oh...India don't believe in copying....and we respect the OEM s terms and conditions....
And most of the electronic s are from isareli origin in our su30 mki.....
And our su30 mki are not 30 years behind the Chineese su30
We are 10 years behind them ...but not 30 years behind......
Again chineese weapons are not the same what they are in brochure...
Ok you say we are 30 years behind to them
We bought s400....now why china also bought them .....why

China is building j20....then why they bought su35

Chinese weapons are cheap... because no r&d cost......
India don't believe in copying .......

 

[M.J.K]

Indian weapons are expensive because you buy them, and are blackmailed by world military contractors. No doubt, because you desperately need weapons against Pakistan and China. You have no choice but to buy expensive weapons or lose.

No Argument there!

Regarding Su30 we need not copy it because we already make them from scratch including hot section of engine.

We were even able to modify su30 MKI with out russian help for carrying Brahmos which even the Russians dint do it.

You hear all bad things about us because we have free media whichchina doesnt have.

 

[Salyut]

Oh...India don't believe in copying....and we respect the OEM s terms and conditions....
And most of the electronic s are from isareli origin in our su30 mki.....
And our su30 mki are not 30 years behind the Chineese su30
We are 10 years behind them ...but not 30 years behind......
Again chineese weapons are not the same what they are in brochure...
Ok you say we are 30 years behind to them
We bought s400....now why china also bought them .....why

China is building j20....then why they bought su35

Chinese weapons are cheap... because no r&d cost......
India don't believe in copying .......

You have to copy, the world works like that. India has a lot of money, has ambitions, and, importantly, very strong enemies. And arms autonomy is the only way, I think studying China is the best way for India. For about 30 years, I am talking about Indian and Chinese weapons that do, not buy!

 

[HawkisRight]

India actually has the basics to make jet engine... obviously hit some technological roadblocks along the way, but we should be in a position to absorb or emulate their tech

I m srry if i sound naive but why don't we develop d engine for Lca thrust requirements then after tests,trials, refinement we do engine upgrade to MK2 engine and then gradually move towards Amca engine instead of our current approach of 5th gen Amca engine..it always puzzles me

 

[NAMICA]

No Argument there!

Regarding Su30 we need not copy it because we already make them from scratch including hot section of engine.

We were even able to modify su30 MKI with out russian help for carrying Brahmos which even the Russians dint do it.

You hear all bad things about us because we have free media whichchina doesnt have.

And international media which only covers our bad news .

 

[Salyut]

No Argument there!

Regarding Su30 we need not copy it because we already make them from scratch including hot section of engine.

We were even able to modify su30 MKI with out russian help for carrying Brahmos which even the Russians dint do it.

You hear all bad things about us because we have free media whichchina doesnt have.

The hot part is one of the most important secrets of a country, they won't share it with anyone. What do you think about "production". Russia will completely transfer the engine drawings and the most sophisticated materials technology in the world to India. A big question mark?
Su30 MKI is a product financed by money from India, technology by Russia like the BrahMos missile. They then take the finished results to produce Su30SM2!
Regarding the media, Vietnam has complete feelings for India and if there is any country that hates China the most, it is Vietnam!

 

[vishnugupt]

Indian weapons are expensive because you buy them, and are blackmailed by world military contractors. No doubt, because you desperately need weapons against Pakistan and China. You have no choice but to buy expensive weapons or lose.
Take the Su30 example. China and India seem to be getting the Su30s and assembling them domestically at the same time, and very quickly China moves in on replicas, from consumables to electronics, airframe, engines, and Finally, the complete plane. That's the way India must go, if you do it well, you can get a copy of the Su30 now or in the near future!
I doubt India can copy the Su30!
Sorry for the bad English!

Your question is a bitter pill to swallow by us. It is not like we don't want to copy but actually, we failed ourselves at many levels on the negotiations table. Our previous deals failed to explain what were we wanted to achieve by them except importing a particular weapon. There was no synergy between the politician-Armed force and PSUs they just wanted their share of the money.
In the past, Russia actually offered more sweet deals to India than China. China has built on these deals while India kept licking these contracts without doing anything.
It's like When Indian go to Russia for negotiation We sign blindly on papers after sleeping with blond girls while the Chinese do just opposite

 

[Rambo101]

Chinese hardly copy. It's tech transfer either from west or Russia or European countries.
indian military tech to has foreign origin from France to Russia to America to Europe.
If you have money you can get know how from countries specially in eastern Europe.

 

[FalconZero]

Chinese hardly copy. It's tech transfer either from west or Russia or European countries.
indian military tech to has foreign origin from France to Russia to America to Europe.
If you have money you can get know how from countries specially in eastern Europe.

>Chinese hardly copy

Holy f**king shiet, please stfu with your BS. Only thing that china does is copy and reverse engineer....despite that most of the their system are sub par, take their engine which is a shitty copy of russina engine, their whole aircraft program is based on reverse engineering soviet/russian aircraft or stealing designs from Americans like they did for j20.

 

[FalconZero]

The hot part is one of the most important secrets of a country, they won't share it with anyone. What do you think about "production". Russia will completely transfer the engine drawings and the most sophisticated materials technology in the world to India. A big question mark?
Su30 MKI is a product financed by money from India, technology by Russia like the BrahMos missile. They then take the finished results to produce Su30SM2!
Regarding the media, Vietnam has complete feelings for India and if there is any country that hates China the most, it is Vietnam!

Whoever you are, BrahMos is an incorrect example if you wanted to shiet out so badly, su57 earlier was the decent example if you wanted, BrahMos is tested and manufactured in India, most of the components are being replaced by Indian components, almost 60 to 67% component is Indian made, which will reach around 87% or more already...

Su30 MKI we never claimed that we made it but yes we now manufacture most of its stuff, even engines bar few imports. Your general idea is correct that russians used us as a cash cow to fund their projects, like in case of 5th gen aircraft.