LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Super lca]

Lca numbers also got me thinking why UK is so keen to find a way to get meteor to India.

123 lca + 100mwf ( for now estimate) = 223 jets.

That's bigger then most airforces in the world.
Even France ( a p5) has only 200 fighter jets currently!!

It's too huge a fleet to not sell weaponry.

Every missile maker will salivate at the chance to arm this fleet. Israel already offering derby ER , USA won't hesitate to sell aim120D once aim260 starts coming.

Russia would offer anything it could offer . If mbda doesn't sell meteor it's a huge loss for UK as UK funded 40% of meteor program.

I'm pretty sure once mk1 starts flying mbda will find a loophole to export meteor for lca otherwise USA and Israeli will jump on it like there is no tommorow.

And Astra mk2 starts flying it's game over for missile import.

We will require more than 200+ mwf in future

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Let me tell you as a pilot
Measure of performance of an aeroplane is my yardstick
We have annual weapon delivery competition in the #IAF
In the first ever competition that #Tejas participated in, it bagged trophy in most of the disciplines
I rest my case

 

[Bleh]

Let me tell you as a pilot
Measure of performance of an aeroplane is my yardstick
We have annual weapon delivery competition in the #IAF
In the first ever competition that #Tejas participated in, it bagged trophy in most of the disciplines
I rest my case

This was no secret though... We've known for almost 2 years now, as it outperformed Jaguar at A2G weapon delivery during Gagan Shakti 2018. (LINK) Mirage-2000 part was new though.

Edit: My bad... Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar confirmed back then only that Tejas had best range scores, outperforming both Mirage-2000 & Su-30MKI. I forgot. (LINK)

.

 

[IndianHawk]

We will require more than 200+ mwf in future

Yup and then we will have more lca variant than entire paki airforce. Also more than entire UK airforce. Lol.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I-Derby ER integration trials likely in 2021 on LCA-Tejas:



Rafael Published June 2, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK Rafael Advanced Defense System developed ER Derby-I BVR (Beyond Visual Range Missile ) will be ready for integration trials on leading fighter jet particularly, Mirage-2000, Sukhoi-30MKI and LCA-Tejas if Indian Air Force (IAF) desires so said company official as IAF plans to replace Russian made R-77 BVRAAMs on frontline fighters like Sukhoi-30. A previous version of I-Derby BVRAAM with a range of 50 km already has been integrated with the LCA-Tejas Mk1 fighter jets but this missile stock came from existing inventory procured for Navy’s Sea Harrier jets which now have been long retired and some I-Derby BVRAAM came from Spyder-SR Air Defense system inventory. I-Derby ER on offer to IAF is an extended range version of the Derby that increases range to 100 km which uses a dual-pulse solid rocket motor which doubles its range to over 100km twice over than the previous version. Rafael claims I-Derby ER can offer 80% operational capability of the framed European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km at fraction of the cost. IAF plans to use Indigenous Astra and I-Derby ER as frontline BVRAAM in Mirage-2000, Sukhoi-30MKI, and LCA-Tejas fleet till Astra Mk2 is available. Sources close to idrw.org informs us that the I-Derby ER order might be in limited numbers to meet interim operational requirements till Astra Production is gradually raised in the next few years.

 

[airtel]

Lca numbers also got me thinking why UK is so keen to find a way to get meteor to India.

123 lca + 100mwf ( for now estimate) = 223 jets.

That's bigger then most airforces in the world.
Even France ( a p5) has only 200 fighter jets currently!!

It's too huge a fleet to not sell weaponry.

Every missile maker will salivate at the chance to arm this fleet. Israel already offering derby ER , USA won't hesitate to sell aim120D once aim260 starts coming.

Russia would offer anything it could offer . If mbda doesn't sell meteor it's a huge loss for UK as UK funded 40% of meteor program.

I'm pretty sure once mk1 starts flying mbda will find a loophole to export meteor for lca otherwise USA and Israeli will jump on it like there is no tommorow.

And Astra mk2 starts flying it's game over for missile import.

In my opinion There is nothing wrong in integration of meteor missile with Tejas , if Tejas can fire meteor , I Derby , Astra , Aim 120d then it would be very difficult for China to develop countermeasures for all these missiles also it would help in export of Tejas .
But we should not buy foreign missiles in large no. And Astra should be our main BWR missile

 

[silicon3]

long time lurker here..have a few question on the tejas mk1a

1) does the mk1a foc now have maws system ?.. if not how does the aircraft know missile is been fired at it, is it via ground control?

2) I'm curious to know the logic/methodology of why sulur, tamil Nadu was selected as the base for the iaf no 18 sqdn.. if its a final foc fighter why not base it along the international border?.. is it based at sulur to be kept away from neighbouring country detection while aircraft tactics n stuff r refined n finalised?

 

[IndianHawk]

In my opinion There is nothing wrong in integration of meteor missile with Tejas , if Tejas can fire meteor , I Derby , Astra , Aim 120d then it would be very difficult for China to develop countermeasures for all these missiles also it would help in export of Tejas .
But we should not buy foreign missiles in large no. And Astra should be our main BWR missile

Astra will be mainstay. Derby ER or meteor will provide critical edge till Astra mk2 and sfdr are ready.

Most important thing is we built more lca even if with foreign missiles as it's still lot cheaper than buying foreign aircraft .

Gripen E cots some 150million total but it gets meteor.

Brazil just bought 100 meteor for 200 million . So 2 million each.

Still cheaper then what rafale cost us.

Mk1a with meteor or derby ER will be as lethal in air to air as gripen E . And will cost just 43 millions per plane + cost of meteor and integration == few hundred million.

Anyway derby ER is already integrated with elta 2052.so that's definitely coming.

 

[IndianHawk]

long time lurker here..have a few question on the tejas mk1a

1) does the mk1a foc now have maws system ?.. if not how does the aircraft know missile is been fired at it, is it via ground control?

2) I'm curious to know the logic/methodology of why sulur, tamil Nadu was selected as the base for the iaf no 18 sqdn.. if its a final foc fighter why not base it along the international border?.. is it based at sulur to be kept away from neighbouring country detection while aircraft tactics n stuff r refined n finalised?

Welcome.
1. Mk1a will have Israeli elisar ew suite which should have all that.
And we are currently pylon based dual color maws for su30 too .which can also go into lca .

Lca has radar warning receiver which more useful than maws for fighter jets to detect enemy radar lock. Ground control can also tell jets whatever awacs and others are seeing.

2.sulur is near Banglore. This is to find and solve all operational issue faster . Eventually they will move out for farword deployment.

 

[itsme]

Anyone know if I-Derby ER is better than AMRAAMS in terms of range? 100KM doesn't seem to be anything ground breaking. Dont the new R77s have 120KM range?

 

[silicon3]

Welcome.
1. Mk1a will have Israeli elisar ew suite which should have all that.
And we are currently pylon based dual color maws for su30 too .which can also go into lca .

Lca has radar warning receiver which more useful than maws for fighter jets to detect enemy radar lock. Ground control can also tell jets whatever awacs and others are seeing.

2.sulur is near Banglore. This is to find and solve all operational issue faster . Eventually they will move out for farword deployment.

radar warning reciever more useful compared to maws..could u elaborate why so?... is it cause maws is have only one defined function while RWR is multi functional..if thats the case they why do fighter have dedicted maws , y not just go with radar warning reciever only as standard?

 

[IndianHawk]

Anyone know if I-Derby ER is better than AMRAAMS in terms of range? 100KM doesn't seem to be anything ground breaking. Dont the new R77s have 120KM range?

100km is minimum declassified range.
Our Astra to is 110 km already (de-classified).

No one gives exact and real range of their missile publicly.

But derby ER had dual pulse motor. While astra has just single pulse. Which means derby ER could actually have 60% more range then Astra !

That's why derby ER is far ahead of aim 120. Even aim 120d can't match derby ER. Only meteor is superior.

Astra mk2 will get dual pulse and meet derby ER.

 

[IndianHawk]

radar warning reciever more useful compared to maws..could u elaborate why so?... is it cause maws is have only one defined function while RWR is multi functional..if thats the case they why do fighter have dedicted maws , y not just go with radar warning reciever only as standard?

It's only recently that fighter jets are going for maws. Usually they only had rwr. Helicopter have maws rather to detect Sam's.
Current gen maws are not very accurate in detection of missiles at high altitude where fighter jets fly.

That's why we are developing next gen dual color maws which will be suitable for fighter jets .

 

[silicon3]

It's only recently that fighter jets are going for maws. Usually they only had rwr. Helicopter have maws rather to detect Sam's.
Current gen maws are not very accurate in detection of missiles at high altitude where fighter jets fly.

That's why we are developing next gen dual color maws which will be suitable for fighter jets .

thanks... much clearer now

 

[Steven Rogers]

Anyone know if I-Derby ER is better than AMRAAMS in terms of range? 100KM doesn't seem to be anything ground breaking. Dont the new R77s have 120KM range?

I-DERBY-ER has dual pulse,they have options to fire the pulse given the situation is....I Derby ER seems to have more burn out time than the AMRAAMs(AIM120C7),thus it has larger no escape zone compared to the AMRAAM,range is just a token number,fits for brochure but doesn't shows the actual picture...

 

[IndianHawk]

I-DERBY-ER has dual pulse,they have options to fire the pulse given the situation is....I Derby ER seems to have more burn out time than the AMRAAMs(AIM120C7),thus it has larger no escape zone compared to the AMRAAM,range is just a token number,fits for brochure but doesn't shows the actual picture...

What I have learned it's even better than aim120d.
But I need more data to confirm that.

 

[Chinmoy]

That's not money released. That's approval only. Nowhere it is mentioned that the money got released.. As long as the money doesn't reach HAL.. the work won't start which you noted correctly and it is considered a delay however way it is phrased. My only gripe is why it is taking so many years to sign the deal when it could be done in less than 18 months like Rafale.

On Rafale deal, with regards to the original deal, IAF is not involved in money matters? So IAF just evaluated the wish list and govt would have bought it for IAF without IAF spending the money from IAF budget? HAL and Dassault can do all the negotiations they want and Trump can broker the negotiations as well but end of the day in a regular deal, the money would have to come out of IAF budget. We are all aware that the deal didn't materialize.

If you consider the modified reduced order, then govt bought the planes for IAF under G2G route but IAF didn't send any real objections that would cause the deal to slow down (done and dusted in 18 months including price negotiations). What stopped our AatmaNirbhar govt from doing a govt purchase of Tejas from HAL directly for IAF just like Rafale and what stopped IAF from finalizing the price within 18 months instead of resending MOD negotiated price back twice?

If govt and IAF can find a middle way to speed up Rafale contract signing, they can do the same for Tejas if they are really honest (not just sound bites). Yes, I am aware that the deal will be signed shortly (how shortly is anybody's guess) but this should have been signed in 2018 itself.


PS : i don't have subscription to Aviation Week article you linked.

DAC is not just about MoD. Ministry of Finance and Commerce along with Ministry of Law is involved in it. Approval of DAC means the finance gets released and every legal aspect of the deal is taken care of. You would not find anywhere mentioned as first installment has been released. So understand it first.

Coming to Rafale deal, IAF prepared the ASQR and after due permission from MoD where again DAC has been involved, RFI got published and subsequently RFP got released. Now how many numbers would be proccured in fly away condition, how many would be made under ToT is not a concern of IAF to start with. IAF was only concerned about what the deal is how much they have to pay & for what. Problem started in between HAL & Dassault which took its own sweet time. In that case it was the fault of MOD & DAC. It was their responsibility to mediate in between the two parties like what they did in case of Tejas. It was not a job of IAF to mediate in between Dassault & HAL.

Now coming to your concern on Tejas, you simply can't compare it with Rafale or the upcoming MRCA 2.0. When MMRCA RFI was created, it was created with certain requirement in mind. IAF was clear about what kind of platform they want & for what purpose. This is not the case with Tejas. It is still a evolving platform. You don't go around & buy a jet because you like it's look. You have to first make a strategy around it. How you are going to use it. What would be its role in your arsenal. What capabilities you want in it. These are few things which you have to decide first before ordering Tejas enmass.

On other hand while ordering a jet you don't just order the platform. You are ordering a whole infra along with it. Do you think the 50k crore which has been sanctioned for 83 jets is just for the platform? Even at the old price of 560crore per jet the total expenditure would have been around 46k crore. So why you think IAF objected to it?

Yes, there is a way to expedite the deal sign off of 83 Tejas. For that ADA & HAL has to complete all the weapon trial tests ASAP.

 

[IndianHawk]

China’s Barely Begun Economic Recovery Shows Signs of Stalling

More and more Chinese factories have reopened for work in the past three months as authorities have eased their once-aggressive coronavirus measures. But now they are facing the dire reality of falling orders from overseas customers.

www.wsj.com

Chinese economic recover is bogus. There economy is in deep shitter. Xi is utterly incompetent.

 

[Steven Rogers]

What I have learned it's even better than aim120d.
But I need more data to confirm that.

AIM120D has heavier motor compared to I Derby ER ...

 

[IndianHawk]

AIM120D has heavier motor compared to I Derby ER ...

That's why I need to confirm it. May take some time.