LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Super lca]

FC-1 is the final form of Mig-21... Presently 120+ in service. And Chinese are not Pakis, they're constantly updating it with new tech.
Tejas Mark1/A as a platform is only marginally better.

Techwise, Blk3 is already out while Mark1A is 2 years behind it. Untill Mark2 arrives, it's pretty evenly matched.
You know how the price was formed & reduced right?

Well tejas mk1a is far superior to the jf blck 3

 

[BangaliBabu]

Coz hal was also charging profit in the imported items plus it has cut it's own profit as well after very tough negotiations and rafael costs $120 million according to the current deal so no comparison with lca

$25 mil. in addendums per piece will always be there, I believe. So, I might just wait and keep quiet about it for now.......

 

[Bleh]

Well tejas mk1a is far superior to the jf blck 3

In reality assuming Chinese tech quality, probably yes. Especially considering its reliability, maintainability, turnaround time, engine efficiency, tech superiority of Israeli/french origin etc.

On paper, not really no. Blk3 got everything Mark1A gets.

$25 mil. in addendums per piece will always be there, I believe. So, I might just wait and keep quiet about it for now.......

Well it doesn't matter anymore... No Mark1 versions will be ordered again by India. For any export infra will be included, so price will be between $30-40mil a piece depending on bells & whistles required by buyer.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I have done that assessment on other threads previously. Problem is that people like you don't read anything and just come barging with half ass info?

Okay answer me how many of those jets can be put for operation in tibet?

What is there availability rate compared to Indian jets?

How many jets China's other enemy have which china also has to account for ?

Answer these first before throwing number in the air.

First China doesn't even give out the number of active Ac they have in service. The list out there is based on various intelligence captures which are more or less accurate.
In this case without all these data or the rate of availability IAF has to assume atleast 75% rate availability of Chinese aircraft at all times. Considering they make most of the spare themselves.

Are you too naive to think Chinese other neighbors will jump into war to side with India? I said this to a Pakistani member who said China will jump in support of Pakistan in case of war. I told him if all wishes were horses. Saying the same to you.

India can have even just 25-30 squadrons. If all are 5th gen. Seeing how you argue here I can pretty sure see how your threat assessment will be.

If you want to defend the current govt that hasn't done so much it promised for Indian defence then be my guest. I also would know how your comment would have been if UPA had been ruling now. The base line is both UPA and NDA has kept air force dry

 

[Chinmoy]

Just meant all indigenous project including the Tejas mk1A is stalled for want of funds. What do you mean IAF needs to order? Where do they have money to order? The govt has promised the defence forces that they will provide funds as when the needs arise than the allocated funds. That's how the govt has has been paying in last 3 years through supplementary budgetary payments. IAF don't have money to even pay for committed agreements in the original budget.

In addition to that IAF already has due of 13k crores to HAL, of which atleast more than half will need to be paid to private MSME's through HAL.

The only thing this govt has done is ensuring 100% spending and ordering basic jackets and gears for forces in forward areas. And new basic weapons. Even this process is ongoing.

After attacking the UPA for being inefficient which they are, still after 6 years IAF squadron strength has only gone down. No sight to achieve 42 squadron. This is for basic defence. If we are to achieve offensive superiority over 2 neighbors IAF needs around 65 squadrons. We are nowhere close nor even starting to invest to close that gap. Govt has to realise defence can be a major employment and revenue generator. But for that govt has to order first. Or else you will see pleas like Tonbo imaging crying.

One reply for your essay.
Do you know that fund for LCA was already released? I hope you don't know that.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

One reply for your essay.
Do you know that fund for LCA was already released? I hope you don't know that.

I know initial funding was released for mk2.
What LCA funds are you talking about?

 

[Chinmoy]

I know initial funding was released for mk2.
What LCA funds are you talking about?

Not Mk2, Mk1A. Fund for the proposed 83 Mk1A has been released. But IAF has yet to sign the deal for that. Now I'd personally not blame IAF for that.

Anyway if I m not wrong, the deal ud be signed in between June & July if everything goes as per plan.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Not Mk2, Mk1A. Fund for the proposed 83 Mk1A has been released. But IAF has yet to sign the deal for that. Now I'd personally not blame IAF for that.

Anyway if I m not wrong, the deal ud be signed in between June & July if everything goes as per plan.

As far as I know IAF didn't have any money in the budget to sign any new deals or even pay for existing deals. Govt told they will provide through supplementary budgetary support whenever possible. So I do not know any money allocated by govt to IAF solely for mk1A.
I also know MOD bureaucrats twice renegotiated the agreement to come at 39k figures and there were reports with MoD's idiots trying to renegotiate even that figure before getting it shot down by IAF and hal complaint. Remember this deal was supposed to sign at DefExpo and there were lots of reports of getting signed that time. Guess who prevented it? I do not know of any news where govt has given that money to IAF. You can show me.

All this debate started when I pointed out that this govt which when in opposition cried about sad state of Indian armed forces and how it's about nearly the same even after 6 years. Some members here are more dedicated to defend one party than constructive criticize a party which hasn't kept its promises with respect to our armed forces.

 

[Chinmoy]

As far as I know IAF didn't have any money in the budget to sign any new deals or even pay for existing deals. Govt told they will provide through supplementary budgetary support whenever possible. So I do not know any money allocated by govt to IAF solely for mk1A.
I also know MOD bureaucrats twice renegotiated the agreement to come at 39k figures and there were reports with MoD's idiots trying to renegotiate even that figure before getting it shot down by IAF and hal complaint. Remember this deal was supposed to sign at DefExpo and there were lots of reports of getting signed that time. Guess who prevented it? I do not know of any news where govt has given that money to IAF. You can show me.

All this debate started when I pointed out that this govt which when in opposition cried about sad state of Indian armed forces and how it's about nearly the same even after 6 years. Some members here are more dedicated to defend one party than constructive criticize a party which hasn't kept its promises with respect to our armed forces.

Whatever you have listened or read anywhere are factually incorrect.
It's IAF who have questioned the initial price tag of 560crore. It was IAF who returned the proposal back to MoD with certain remarks on it concerning particular areas.
Even after the price slash, it was again returned back to MoD with a few remarks on crucial absence of particulars. But eventually it has been agreed upon with the new price tag.

 

[aerokan]

Whatever you have listened or read anywhere are factually incorrect.
It's IAF who have questioned the initial price tag of 560crore. It was IAF who returned the proposal back to MoD with certain remarks on it concerning particular areas.
Even after the price slash, it was again returned back to MoD with a few remarks on crucial absence of particulars. But eventually it has been agreed upon with the new price tag.

Care to provide a source that the money got released?? The bigger question then is where did the money get released to?

Govt and IAF can play ping pong as much as they want with the little money they have and even little money they spend on indigenous products. If you can provide a source or any article which shows that the money got released to HAL, we would be more than happy to hear it. If there are no articles then i will take your word for it if you say you have an inside 'factual' source from which you heard. If the money is already paid to HAL without a contract signing.. then this would be a marvel in accounting practices world over and govt/IAF's own history of not paying even after a lot of time.

So you mean to say IAF sent back multiple times on 'particulars' for Tejas and delayed it for several years but it immediately accepted Rafale and signed within less than 18 months of Modi making deal with France? Can we infer that IAF is the reason for the delays and it has not mended it's ways from your statements?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

So you mean to say IAF sent back multiple times on 'particulars' for Tejas and delayed it for several

In past i IAF didn't wanted tejas at all they did many things to stop procurement of tejas they would have successfully done that if there was no manohar parikar.
IAF was running a procurement plan to buy single engine aircraft from foreign vendor's along side of mmrca but NSA and Mod rejected that program and told them to buy tejas only.
You can Google this up. So bias against tejas in past is nothing new.

 

[aerokan]

In past i IAF didn't wanted tejas at all they did many things to stop procurement of tejas they would have successfully done that if there was no manohar parikar.
IAF was running a procurement plan to buy single engine aircraft from foreign vendor's along side of mmrca but NSA and Mod rejected that program and told them to buy tejas only.
You can Google this up. So bias against tejas in past is nothing new.

Yup.. i am well aware of it. Since he said he is not willing to blame IAF for it, i was asking him if he acknowledges the role IAF played in delaying Tejas compared to Rafale.

India lost a gem with Parrikar's death. If not for him, IAF would have crucified Tejas. We used to get articles every other day from sold out Air Vice Marshall's on why Tejas is not good for IAF for the good part of the last decade. In this forum, the discussions used to be much heated between the Tejas supporters and those who wanted foreign maal. Now it's all just sissy fights and towing the govt line. All those articles died down instantly after Tejas went to Bahrain air show and I particularly enjoyed a long silence from the media mafia.

 

[Bleh]

 

[fire starter]

In reality assuming Chinese tech quality, probably yes. Especially considering its reliability, maintainability, turnaround time, engine efficiency, tech superiority of Israeli/french origin etc.

On paper, not really no. Blk3 got everything Mark1A gets.
Well it doesn't matter anymore... No Mark1 versions will be ordered again by India. For any export infra will be included, so price will be between $30-40mil a piece depending on bells & whistles required by buyer.

blk 3 is still a 3rd gen aerodynamically stable design with 4th gen avionics mk1a is having better ew suite and net centric capability.

 

[Bleh]

blk 3 is still a 3rd gen aerodynamically stable design with 4th gen avionics mk1a is having better ew suite and net centric capability.

Yes, I pointed out how Tejas platform is slightly better... But in videos of FC-1 performing in airshows, it is pretty impressive & with high energy maneuvers being better than Tejas for the 3/4th loop. Then it loses energy rapidly like an F-18, while Tejas maintains turn rate for multiple rounds.

Anyways, as of now BVR aspect is pretty evenly matched, Chinese Pl-15 being a copy of Derby. Quality aside, atleast on paper, Chinese Blk3 matches Mark1A feature to feature.

 

[varun9509]

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[ashdoc]

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Missile is R 73 AAM ?

 

[WolfPack86]

Will order for 83 Tejas soon, HAL to deliver 70 aircraft by 2026: IAF chief Bhadauria
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is likely to place an order for 83 Light Combat Aircraft (LAC) Tejas MK IA soon and expects deliveries to commence in three years, Air Chief Marshal R.K.S Bhadauria told ThePrint in an email interview.

Bhadauria further said the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is expected to complete the delivery of 70 Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40) by 2026.

The IAF is also sure HAL will complete the full development of the Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) this year and is already progressing on the procurement of an initial batch of the choppers.

The Air Chief’s statement comes amid a renewed push for the indigenous defence industry by the Narendra Modi government under its ‘Atmanirbhar initiative’ given the economic downturn in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Earlier this month, Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman announced a slew of measures such as a negative list for the import of defence equipment which could be built in India, a separate capital budget for indigenous weapons procurement, and corporatisation of the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), among others.


On indigenous Tejas, trainers

The Air Chief said that the order for 83 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) MK IA is likely to be placed soon and the deliveries will commence in three years.

On Wednesday, Bhadauria flew a Tejas, which is part of the IAF’s 45 Squadron, at the Sulur air force station.

He was in Sulur to operationalise the IAF’s 18 Squadron, called the Flying Bullets.

“In the long run, the IAF will have 40+83 Tejas Mk I/IA and around six squadrons of Tejas Mk II. Eventually, we aim to boost our capabilities with the fifth generation plus AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft),” he said.

“The IAF’s current induction plan, coupled with capability enhancements underway through upgrades of many aircraft and weapons, will take care sufficiently of our current threat scenario in the short term,” he added.

Currently, the IAF has 30 active fighter squadrons.

Bhaudauria said depletion will be offset by deliveries of Rafale and the LCA MK IA, while a follow-up acquisition plan will start to recover the overall squadron strength.

Asked about the projected timelines for India’s indigenous trainer program and the plans to fill up the gaps in the pilots’ trainer programme, Bhadauria said the IAF is assisting HAL with concurrent user assisted trials on HTT-40 to cut down on development timelines.

“We expect to start receiving the trainer in 2022 and complete deliveries of 70 aircraft in four years. The HTT-40 will augment the already inducted trainer aircraft in a three-stage training programme,” he said.

He added that the exact cost details of the HTT-40 are being worked out by HAL.

The state-owned firm’s programme to develop a basic HTT-40 trainer is nearly six years behind schedule.

The IAF is currently running low on trainers with plans to procure more aircraft hitting a dead end. The crisis reportedly had affected the training of pilots due to a lack of aircraft.

In an earlier interview to ANI, Bhadauria had said that the IAF shelved its plans to buy 38 Pilatus basic trainer aircraft from Switzerland and 20 additional Hawk planes from Britain.

Currently, Pilatus PC 7 turbo trainers are used for the first stage of training of Air Force pilots. For the intermediate training, Kiran Mk 2 are being used, which are being phased out, while the Hawk jet trainers are being used for advanced training.

As many as 75 of the aircraft were bought under an emergency purchase in 2012, however a plan to get an additional 38 aircraft was cancelled following allegations of corruption in the deal.

Another indigenous programme to develop an intermediate jet trainer was delayed by nearly 15 years over quality concerns.

Asked about the status of the current LUH programme, Bhadauria said it had proven productive but still needs to demonstrate some operational requirements at high altitude and fix some flying qualities issues.

“We are confident that HAL will complete the full development this year and the IAF is already progressing a case for procurement of an initial batch of Limited Series production of LUH,” he said.

Apart from improvements to equipment and infrastructure, Bhadauria said that the IAF will continue inducting women into fighter streams in the future as a regular mode of entry.

“The numbers will depend on volunteers and those who clear the selection and training process,” he said.

Presently, the IAF has a total of 111 women pilots, of which nine are on fighters and the rest are on transport and helicopter fleets.


DRDO challenges lies developing in niche tech

Air Chief Marshal Bhadauria said that the Defence Research and Development Organisation’s technology and quality issues have improved significantly over the years in many areas such as ground radars, air-to-air missiles, missile defence systems, networking, etc., even as some challenges lie in niche technologies.

The LCA programme has also undergone major improvements, he said, adding, “Current challenges lie in niche technologies such as sensors, guided weapons and advanced technologies. To counter rapidly evolving threats, timely deliveries are essential to sustain the capability and technological edge.”

He emphasised that “timely deliveries” are essential to sustain the capability and technological edge to counter “rapidly evolving threats.”

Talking about making HAL more accountable for quality, timely delivery and lifetime support, he said there are plans underway to instil greater user participation at various levels by deputing more IAF officers to HAL.

“I am sure HAL will evolve its structures and processes to become competitive,” he said.


Jaguars to operate well beyond 2035

Bhadauria addressed the issue of how likely budget cuts on the planned induction of weapon systems could impact the IAF, saying there is always a constant endeavour to balance security needs with budget constraints.

“The IAF is already prioritising its capital and revenue expenditure plans for the year to adapt to the evolving budget realities. Our focus would be to economise and reprioritise without affecting our immediate combat capability requirements,” he said.

The Air Chief had earlier told ANI that the upgradation of 80 Jaguar fighter planes with engines from Honeywell Corporation America has been shelved.

However, he told ThePrint that the IAF have initiated other measures to sustain the engines and maintenance aspects of the fleet.

“Jaguar fleet is expected to operate well beyond 2035 with its upgraded avionics, sensors and EW (electronic warfare),” he said.

Bhadauria said while there are logistical and operational challenges of systems from different countries, especially of Russian and western origin, these are overcome by proper procedures, management and technology.

“There is no effect on interoperability as the IAF has trained for several decades with these systems,” he said.

“However, we are focused on reducing the number of types of aircraft in the future to optimise the logistical and maintenance issues,” he added.

Defencenews.in

 

[Bleh]

Missile is R 73 AAM ?

 

[Super lca]

When will astra get integrated to tejas