LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[IndianHawk]

Thanks! Not seen that one before. I'm having a hard time concluding if those side EFTs are the larger 1200kg ones and not the same 800kg one on the central line. The rest of your pics, with 3.5 and 3.6ton loads are definitely confirmed loads which we know of.

Also, just to remember, in all this we are assuming it took off with 100% internal fuel.

Inboard pylon carry 1200 litre tanks. 800 litre are carried on mid board pylon so that inboard pylon could carry two tandem bombs as it is rated for most weight.

Of course they have full internal fuel ! They won't carry external tank when internal tank is empty!!

 

[IndianHawk]

No point carrying external fuel sacrificing internal fuel.


The matter of fact is we don't **redacted** know. Tejas flight envelope, load capability are all being tested & determined right now. I don't know if you know or not, but if you see Tejas got a last minute software update that pushed it from November 2019 to January 2020... And we don't have a clue about its effects.
Every data or spec, anybody knows about Tejas, is either from IOC standard or under testing in LSPs. As of now MTOW is reportedly expanded to 14ton+ and service life is being tested by 45th Squadron. HVT indicated latest possibility is upto 9000hrs.

It's our first jet so we have been very conservative with published data. Now we are expanding the envelope pushing it to maximum performance slowly.
That it can take 3.5 ton payload at laddakh just blew me !

It's ferry range is now touching 3000km for such a small bird. F404 is really fuel efficient. And it's combat radius has surpassed Jaguar ! Which is a deep strike platform.

Service life could beat Russian jets in IAF and match western jets.

All that painful development of composite , quadrplix fly by wire is now paying dividend.

We have a winner at hand.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

LCA Production underway. Aerostructure production for defence programs remain robust during the pandemic as government spending provides a safety net.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Indranil Post seems to indicate 4.25 tons payload + 300kg of instrumentation. Hence Payload is 4.55 tons

My guess about LCA MTOW:-

Empty Weight 6600kg
Fuel 2400kg
Gen Misc 1000kg
Payload 4600kg

Gives 14.6 tons MTOW, which I personally believe/guess, feel will climb to 15000kg as flight envelope opens up.

which is well in line with Mirage 2000, with 95kn engine.

Now LCA requires 20%-30% less fuel than Mirage 2000. So if we hang the same weapon payload ~2500kg on LCA & Mirage then Range of LCA, even now, may be equal to or even longer than Mirage 2000, F-16

 

[Bleh]

Indranil Post seems to indicate 4.25 tons payload + 300kg of instrumentation. Hence Payload is 4.55 tons

My guess about LCA MTOW:-

Empty Weight 6600kg
Fuel 2400kg
Gen Misc 1000kg
Payload 4600kg

Gives 14.6 tons MTOW, which I personally believe/guess, feel will climb to 15000kg as flight envelope opens up.

which is well in line with Mirage 2000, with 95kn engine.

Now LCA requires 20%-30% less fuel than Mirage 2000. So if we hang the same weapon payload ~2500kg on LCA & Mirage then Range of LCA, even now, may be equal to or even longer than Mirage 2000, F-16

This is an overestimation I think... Best way is to not get too eager. Just stick to the testing news updates & confirmed specs from reliable sources.

 

[Defcon 1]

ADA itself mentions 89 kN as engine thrust. Indranil and sourav jha only report what Hal and ADA tell them.

See Tejas gov website.

What ADA has mentioned is uninstalled thrust. According to GE's own website, they quote that GE404-IN20 has uninstalled thrust of >85 KN but give around 81 KN thrust when you remove the word uninstalled. Uninstalled thrust is not useful thrust and shouldn't be taken as a point of comparison

 

[Illusive]

 

[ObiWanKenobi]

It's our first jet so we have been very conservative with published data. Now we are expanding the envelope pushing it to maximum performance slowly.
That it can take 3.5 ton payload at laddakh just blew me !

It's ferry range is now touching 3000km for such a small bird. F404 is really fuel efficient. And it's combat radius has surpassed Jaguar ! Which is a deep strike platform.

Service life could beat Russian jets in IAF and match western jets.

All that painful development of composite , quadrplix fly by wire is now paying dividend.

We have a winner at hand.

Definitely we have a winner.

I really think it's a lost opportunity to not order more of the existing Tejas so we can step up production to >40 a/c a year - perhaps one of the lines in the private sector. I'm expecting MWF won't be ready for prod before 2027 and we could build at least 250 Tejas Mk1A/B/C... till then.

IAF keeps wailing about squadron strength, well here is an option sitting in front of you! When MWF comes of age, the same production lines can transition to MWF and then eventually AMCA.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

If 89kn is uninstalled thrust, then what about thrust mentioned for other fighters? That are also uninstalled thrust. Additionally GE engines have war time setting, which increases thrust by 5% or so.

 

[IndianHawk]

Definitely we have a winner.

I really think it's a lost opportunity to not order more of the existing Tejas so we can step up production to >40 a/c a year - perhaps one of the lines in the private sector. I'm expecting MWF won't be ready for prod before 2027 and we could build at least 250 Tejas Mk1A/B/C... till then.

IAF keeps wailing about squadron strength, well here is an option sitting in front of you! When MWF comes of age, the same production lines can transition to MWF and then eventually AMCA.

They are waiting for mwf which will overcome all shortcomings of mk1/mk1a with huge range , more payload and internal systems for ew and irst .

That is what will be build in continuous huge numbers.

Mmrca is dead. Now they will buy 36 more rafale sometimes after 2022 and rest numbers will be made up with mwf or orca if tedbf is developed.

 

[IndianHawk]

What ADA has mentioned is uninstalled thrust. According to GE's own website, they quote that GE404-IN20 has uninstalled thrust of >85 KN but give around 81 KN thrust when you remove the word uninstalled. Uninstalled thrust is not useful thrust and shouldn't be taken as a point of comparison

If that is true then kaveri reached that figure of 81 kN thrust. And yet kaveri has been deemed to have not sufficient power for lca.

So practical useful thrust should be much higher than 81 KN.

GE won't disclose actual thrust of Indian version as that could be classified in contract.

 

[fire starter]

Big Day for Indian Air Force- On Wednesday, 27 May 2020, the Second Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Squadron- No. 18 Squadron, Flying Bullets will be inducted into the Indian Air Force.
The Squadron was earlier resurrected in April 2020, at Sulur, Tamil Nadu.

 

[Defcon 1]

If that is true then kaveri reached that figure of 81 kN thrust. And yet kaveri has been deemed to have not sufficient power for lca.

So practical useful thrust should be much higher than 81 KN.

GE won't disclose actual thrust of Indian version as that could be classified in contract.

Kaveri is yet to reach 81 kn as per multiple sources including sourav jha. Not to mention that kaveri is overweight too.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Official Ressurection* and forming of Second Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Squadron into the Indian Air Force 27 May 2020.
No.18 Squadron (Flying Bullets) played a stellar role during 1971 #IndoPakWar, and Flying Officer Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon was awarded the PVC, posthumously.

 

[Holy Triad]

All 16 tejas's of flying daggers listed here in this twitter thread with its respective tail numbers,

Tejas fans here is a small thread for you All 16 aircraft of Flying daggers


LA-5001



LA-5002



LA-5003



LA-5004





LA-5005




LA-5006





LA-5007





LA-5008



LA-5009




LA-5010





LA-5011






LA-5012





LA-5013




LA-5014





LA-5015





LA-5016

 

[WolfPack86]

Second LCA-Tejas Squadron-No. 18 to be resurrected soon

Second Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Squadron in Final Operational Configuration (FOC) will be resurrected by the No. 18 Squadron, Flying Bullets to be inducted into the Indian Air Force on 27 May 2020 as per information provided by the ” Delhi Defence Review “. The squadron last flew the Indian license-built Mikoyan MiG-27ML until the aircraft was withdrawn from Indian service in April 2016. No.18 Squadron (Flying Bullets) will be initially be based in Sulur Air force Station in TamilNadu and might later move to Kalaikunda Air Force Station which was the previous base for the Squadron, No.18 Squadron also has operated from Air Force Station Hindan in the past. First FOC Certified LCA-Tejas Mk1 SP-17 (formerly known as SP-21) might be lone aircraft that might be handed over by the HAL to the Squadron due to lack of further aircraft being ready at the moment. SP-18 is planned to be tested flighted soon so that aircraft could be handed over to the second squadron soon but due to the extended lockdown delivery schedule of the further aircraft down the line might be affected for the next two months.

Second LCA-Tejas Squadron-No. 18 to be resurrected soon – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[BangaliBabu]

A Tejas squadron will have 16 aircrafts? or 18 like the Su-30 or the Rafale ones??

On a separate note, the updated MWF page on Wikipedia is absolutely stunning!! Well done, guys! (Just put a lill' smaller Specifications picture )

 

[IndianHawk]

Kaveri is yet to reach 81 kn as per multiple sources including sourav jha. Not to mention that kaveri is overweight too.

This is latest info on kaveri

As you can see it has reached 81 Kn recently. Also look at TWR at 7.8 it's no longer overweight .
But it still has issue sustaining performance for long time.

And 81 Kn is no longer deemed suitable by IAF for lca can only mean that f404 IN 20 trust should be much higher.

 

[IndianHawk]

All 16 tejas's of flying daggers listed here in this twitter thread with its respective tail numbers,

Tejas fans here is a small thread for you All 16 aircraft of Flying daggers


LA-5001



LA-5002



LA-5003



LA-5004





LA-5005




LA-5006





LA-5007





LA-5008



LA-5009




LA-5010





LA-5011






LA-5012





LA-5013




LA-5014





LA-5015





LA-5016

I posted this before maybe. But let me repeat these 40 lca are much more capable then mig21 they replace .

Each lca has twice the combat radius of mig21 ( foc also have air to air refuel ) .
Each lca can carry more air to air missile than mig21 and each of these missile have more range then mig21 missiles.
Lca radar is leagues ahead of mig21 .

Each lca can thus guard twice the area in comparison to mig21 with much more potency.

So 1 lca = 2 mig21.

On top of that lca is multirole it can carry as much payload as a jaguar or mig27. And can strike more accurately with precision weapon and it's combat radius exceeds that of jaguars .

So 1 lca = 1 mig27.

So effectively 1 lca = 2.5 jets ( mig21+ mig27).

Thus 40 lca mk1 are adding as much capability as 100 ( mig21 + mig27 ) would provide.

 

[Defcon 1]

This is latest info on kaveri

As you can see it has reached 81 Kn recently. Also look at TWR at 7.8 it's no longer overweight .
But it still has issue sustaining performance for long time.

And 81 Kn is no longer deemed suitable by IAF for lca can only mean that f404 IN 20 trust should be much higher.

These are very old target specs. There is no confirmation whether they have been achieved or not. Also, there is a critical point that many claiming that these specs have been met forget. Kaveri is not being flight tested actively. So how does one know that how much thrust it can achieve in flight to make any claim.