LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[IndianHawk]

It's tested and confirmed.


There are already pics of lca on BRF carrying more than 4 ton payload.

View attachment 48497

This is 4.05 ton payload . Since it is an lsp and carried flight instrumentation of 300kg. The foc lca payload can be 4.35 ton.

Removing Some Media Fallacies About The Capabilities of The LCA Tejas Fighter | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

Read the article.

From the same article.

Image 4 below shows the Tejas being prepared for flight during hot weather trials at Leh Airfield, which is at an altitude of 10,682 feet above mean sea level, with a payload of about 3.2 t. Once again, bear in mind that this is a test aircraft with 300 kg of extra instrumentation onboard. Forget the two fighter aircraft it is being compared to, taking off with 3.5 t of payload during summer at Leh is near the what twin-engined medium-weight fighter can accomplish, while operating in similar conditions. This is not surprising because the wing area of the Tejas is comparable to that of medium weight fighters.

It means that foc lca can fly with 3.5 ton payload at leh laddakh!! Which is where even much bigger f16 struggles and failed mmrca testing.

That's what we gained with our own design choices. Now just think what mwf would achieve and why there is so much butthurt in Dalal lobbies.

Lol

 

[IndianHawk]

This is an old pots by indranil which I posted here before . But no one bothers to read. So here it is again.

Some heavy configs flown:
2*1200 ltr tanks + 2 LGB + LDP +2*CCM = 2*1200*0.8*1.1+ 2*500+200+2*100 = 3.5 tons
4 bombs in tandem carriage + 2*800 ltr tanks + LDP +2*CCM= 4*450+2*800*0.8*1.1+200+2*100 = 3.6 tons
1*725 centerline tank + 6*450 kg bombs + LDP + 2*CCM = 3.74 tons
2*1200 ltr tanks + 1*725 centerline tank + 2*450 kg bomb + LDP + 2*CCM = 2*1200*0.8*1.1+725*0.8*1.1+2*450+200+2*100 =4.05 tons

Planned:
1*725 centerline tank + 2*1200 ltr tanks + 2 LGB + LDP +2*CCM = 1.1+725*0.8*1.1+2*1200*0.8*1.1+ 2*500+200+2*100 = 4.15 tons
1*725 centerline tank + 4 bombs in tandem carriage + 2*800 ltr tanks + LDP +2*CCM= 1.1+725*0.8*1.1+4*450+2*800*0.8*1.1+200+2*100 = 4.25 tons
There are plans for Brahmos NG as well, but I can’t judge that as too many unknown variables at the moment.

( Add 300 kg more for flight instrumentation as all test are done on lsp with flight instrumentation).

 

[IndianHawk]

2*1200 ltr tanks + 2 LGB + LDP +2*CCM = 2*1200*0.8*1.1+ 2*500+200+2*100 = 3.5 tons

4 bombs in tandem carriage + 2*800 ltr tanks + LDP +2*CCM= 4*450+2*800*0.8*1.1+200+2*100 = 3.6 tons

 

[Defcon 1]

Backed up by indranil and delhi defense review of sourav jha.

Read the latest article by DDR on removing the myth against lca for foreign lobbies.

Data will keep changing as full potential of airframe is realized.

Indranil doesn't quote any source.

Sourav jha hasn't mentioned engine thrust in his article. My question is limited to engine thrust only, not other specs. Is there any source that lca mk1's engine thrust is 89 kn?

 

[IndianHawk]

2*1200 ltr tanks + 1*725 centerline tank + 2*450 kg bomb + LDP + 2*CCM = 2*1200*0.8*1.1+725*0.8*1.1+2*450+200+2*100 =4.05 tons

 

[IndianHawk]

Indranil doesn't quote any source.

Sourav jha hasn't mentioned engine thrust in his article. My question is limited to engine thrust only, not other specs. Is there any source that lca mk1's engine thrust is 89 kn?

ADA itself mentions 89 kN as engine thrust. Indranil and sourav jha only report what Hal and ADA tell them.

See Tejas gov website.

 

[IndianHawk]

2*1200 litre tank + ldp + 2*450kg bomb+ 2 ccm at laddakh == 3.2 ton + 300 ton instrumentation =3.5 ton !!

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Just out of my curiosity which bvr on Tejas will have 100km range.?

Astra Mk1 and Darby ER.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

From the same article.

Image 4 below shows the Tejas being prepared for flight during hot weather trials at Leh Airfield, which is at an altitude of 10,682 feet above mean sea level, with a payload of about 3.2 t. Once again, bear in mind that this is a test aircraft with 300 kg of extra instrumentation onboard. Forget the two fighter aircraft it is being compared to, taking off with 3.5 t of payload during summer at Leh is near the what twin-engined medium-weight fighter can accomplish, while operating in similar conditions. This is not surprising because the wing area of the Tejas is comparable to that of medium weight fighters.

View attachment 48498

It means that foc lca can fly with 3.5 ton payload at leh laddakh!! Which is where even much bigger f16 struggles and failed mmrca testing.

That's what we gained with our own design choices. Now just think what mwf would achieve and why there is so much butthurt in Dalal lobbies.

Lol

I remember a quote of a scientist who said that Tejas was tested with 2.5 ton weight in laddakh. It took off so easily that it has given more confidence to put higher weight. We make our planes and choppers Himalaya specific. This will give us more advantage in possible future wars.

In many discussions on wars in Himalaya, particularly against China, I have repeatedly said that which country has the topography specific weapon will win. For example, we need a steep dive missile to hit other side of mountain. Brahmos Block III will play a very important role so as Our pralay. Light tanks of 45 ton weight specifically configured for Himalayan region may play very important role. We have put T 72 there.
Like we have developed cold start and we acquire weapons to support cold start offensives, we must have a mountain warfare doctrine and weapons should be procured or developed to support that offensive. Tejas, LCH and Dhruv are going to be our trump card in Himalayan warfare.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[BangaliBabu]

clean aircraft......just clean. Something in there tells me it's a watered-down f35

 

[vishnugupt]

Any idiot would know Rafale is a better platform than Tejas MK1A. The only advantage of the Tejas is that it is cheaper and more numerous.

yeh. any Idiot except you who is replying something nobody is asking for.

HAL like all PSUs jack up the price and then give slow delivery and cost overruns. A smart approach would have been to rapidly indigenize equipment being imported by HAL and to use the cost savings to develop private sector.

"Rapidly indigenize equipment," Now you shifting goal post like IAF. Are you living on Mars? HAL/DRDO has repeatedly told that until Armed forces give big orders, production cant be increased. See the Akash and Pinaka order numbers and please let us know is there any cost overrun or slow delivery??

However your union culture @ HAL needs to justify it's membership fees and thus you have astonishing overhead costs. When an imported fighter is cheaper than a less capable made in India one, blame rests with PSU and not foreign OEM.

Please let us know where we can buy Tejas mk1a equivalent jet in 310 crores ( 43millions ). Negotiation done price reduced but still you feel this is an astonishing price. ( price reduced largely due to IAF dropped unnecessary requirement; refer my previous post)

Simulators, bases, spare parts, depots can all be repurposed from the LCA MK1 project. So buying two sets of the same equipment is useless redundancy. This is the same project afterall.

You should have told this to IAF before sending RFP in 2016

 

[vampyrbladez]

yeh. any Idiot except you who is replying something nobody is asking for.

Refer to your previous post where you complain of differentials in priorities. Stick to your points or concede.

"Rapidly indigenize equipment," Now you shifting goal post like IAF. Are you living on Mars? HAL/DRDO has repeatedly told that until Armed forces give big orders, production cant be increased. See the Akash and Pinaka order numbers and please let us know is there any cost overrun or slow delivery??

DRDO/OFB have go adequate numbers for production. Problem is slow delivery and cost overruns. Funny how this doesn't happen in Private sector except the most exceptional cases.

Please let us know where we can buy Tejas mk1a equivalent jet in 310 crores ( 43millions ). Negotiation done price reduced but still you feel this is an astonishing price. ( price reduced largely due to IAF dropped unnecessary requirement; refer my previous post)

The extra support gear and spares were redundant. HAL tried to fleece IAF but was unsuccessful. Your post didn't mention this.

SD
You should have told this to IAF before sending RFP in 2016

There is a certain degree of cost savings if you buy from subsequent production runs. HAL imports a lot of the Tejas's gear. This shows a failure to properly indigenize equipment. Again private sector has been far better at this - TONBO, SSS, MKU, L&T, etc.

 

[vishnugupt]

Actually every source on the internet gives payload of over 6 tonnes. Since you lack knowledge, here are the official specs from Dassault

Military customer support: Mirage 2000

Entered into service in the Air Force in 1984, the Mirage 2000 is appreciated by all users.

www.dassault-aviation.com

Another one from global security, put armament weight at 6200 kg for Mirage 2000D and 5900 for Mirage 2000C.

Mirage-2000 and Gripen seem to be very mysterious and unique fighter jets in the world because they don't count pilot weight, support gears, oil, gun weight, pylon weight.
Mirage:- Maximum take of weight 16500 - (7600 empty weight + 3100 kg internal fuel) = 5,800 kg Payload
Gripen:- Maximum take of weight 17400 - ( 8000 empty weight + 3400kg internal fuel ) = 6000 kg payload

Surprisingly, the same Mathematics don't apply on Tejas because it is a sin.
Tejas:- Maximum take of weight 14100 - ( 6560 empty weight + 2400kg internal fuel ) = 5140kg ??? NO, NO, No. its 3500kg.
that's why I asked you to give us breakaway values of so we can calculate. Neither, I have come across with any Picture of Mirage where it was carrying 6-ton of payload

 

[ObiWanKenobi]

View attachment 48502

2*1200 ltr tanks + 1*725 centerline tank + 2*450 kg bomb + LDP + 2*CCM = 2*1200*0.8*1.1+725*0.8*1.1+2*450+200+2*100 =4.05 tons

Thanks! Not seen that one before. I'm having a hard time concluding if those side EFTs are the larger 1200kg ones and not the same 800kg one on the central line. The rest of your pics, with 3.5 and 3.6ton loads are definitely confirmed loads which we know of.

Also, just to remember, in all this we are assuming it took off with 100% internal fuel.

 

[Bleh]

Also, just to remember, in all this we are assuming it took off with 100% internal fuel.

No point carrying external fuel sacrificing internal fuel.


The matter of fact is we don't **redacted** know. Tejas flight envelope, load capability are all being tested & determined right now. I don't know if you know or not, but if you see Tejas got a last minute software update that pushed it from November 2019 to January 2020... And we don't have a clue about its effects.
Every data or spec, anybody knows about Tejas, is either from IOC standard or under testing in LSPs. As of now MTOW is reportedly expanded to 14ton+ and service life is being tested by 45th Squadron. HVT indicated latest possibility is upto 9000hrs.

 

[ObiWanKenobi]

Mirage-2000 and Gripen seem to be very mysterious and unique fighter jets in the world because they don't count pilot weight, support gears, oil, gun weight, pylon weight.
Mirage:- Maximum take of weight 16500 - (7600 empty weight + 3100 kg internal fuel) = 5,800 kg Payload
Gripen:- Maximum take of weight 17400 - ( 8000 empty weight + 3400kg internal fuel ) = 6000 kg payload

Surprisingly, the same Mathematics don't apply on Tejas because it is a sin.
Tejas:- Maximum take of weight 14100 - ( 6560 empty weight + 2400kg internal fuel ) = 5140kg ??? NO, NO, No. its 3500kg.
that's why I asked you to give us breakaway values of so we can calculate. Neither, I have come across with any Picture of Mirage where it was carrying 6-ton of payload

Indeed, clear double standards on Tejas. Mostly fuelled by older retired IAF folk who never grasped nor warmed-up to the idea of what it means to be a Primary User.

IAF have always been a buyers air force like Egypt, SA and Pak - a.k.a Secondary Users.

They realised way too late in the Tejas program that the Primary User IS ALSO the developer! They have a critical role to draw up manuals, test, feedback, propose changes and participate in incremental development very closely with ADA/HAL right from TD-1 onwards. I think they only understood this towards the end of the LSP program.

However, I'm hopeful they have learnt this and now will be involved in MWF, AMCA right from the get go.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Indeed, clear double standards on Tejas. Mostly fuelled by older retired IAF folk who never grasped nor warmed-up to the idea of what it means to be a Primary User.

IAF have always been a buyers air force like Egypt, SA and Pak - a.k.a Secondary Users.

They realised way too late in the Tejas program that the Primary User IS ALSO the developer! They have a critical role to draw up manuals, test, feedback, propose changes and participate in incremental development very closely with ADA/HAL right from TD-1 onwards. I think they only understood this towards the end of the LSP program.

However, I'm hopeful they have learnt this and now will be involved in MWF, AMCA right from the get go.

Yup main issue was trust and support issues from IAF side they should have been the part of development from day one.
Just like how navy keeps up with the development of boats.

Anyway in future programs IAF is totally involved.

 

[vishnugupt]

Also, just to remember, in all this we are assuming it took off with 100% internal fuel.

This doesn't apply for Mirage, Gripen or any other Shinny toy where you can fill half of the internal fuel and increase payload by 2tons.

 

[samsaptaka]

IAF have always been a buyers air force like Egypt, SA and Pak - a.k.a Secondary Users.

They realised way too late in the Tejas program that the Primary User IS ALSO the developer! They have a critical role to draw up manuals, test, feedback, propose changes and participate in incremental development very closely with ADA/HAL right from TD-1 onwards. I think they only understood this towards the end of the LSP program.

However, I'm hopeful they have learnt this and now will be involved in MWF, AMCA right from the get go.

Spot on ! And we have to thank Parrikar for preserving and persevering with IAF to persist with the Tejas!