LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Flying Dagger]

Derby ER is tested ? From which platform ? Derby ER is not yet integrated as per my information. Is it even operational in Israel air force ?

It is operational with Israel. Also they are integrating it with SPYDER. Derby ER is essentially the same missile but improved with dual pulse rocket to increase range . It is a mature product with verified systems functioning pretty well in I-Derby (that's what I meant with tested )

In IAF there were reports of Sukhoi getting it but nothing happened so far.. Tejas has already test-fired I Derby and mk1a will have Elta 2052 so Derby ER is a given as IAF will be getting it.

Really? Didnot know that Derby-ER has a range of 160km ? Source ? How does Derby-ER and Astra costwise compare?

The official range mentioned will be 100+ km. You can check the official website of Rafael.

It's a dual pulse rocket motor , 160 km range means that's max depending on the altitude / platform it is fired from . It doesn't mean it will take down any target at that range..

Costwise.. Astra is around 7-8 crore /1 million ( not confirmed)
I Derby was cheaper but Derby ER must be similar or more .

Missiles are pretty expensive a meteor cost 2.4-3 million dollar depending on various sources.

 

[Flying Dagger]

No. Only Derby is integrated with Tejas (not Derby-ER)

You are right Derby ER will be integrated with mk1a onwards. May be due to the MMR radar . Integration will not be any issue though whenever we decide to procure them.

@Saichand K Jane is reliable yes but Derby ER isn't integrated with mk1.

 

[WARREN SS]

How did you came to conclusion that J 10 RCS will be 8 m2 ? Is their any data you can show ?

Loaded F-16 Viper is 5m2 I am sure Chinese Substandard RAM coating Can't match them

Elta radar on Tejas is adjusted to be fit on small nose size of Tejas it's trm are almost halved at 800 around. The GaN version isn't available now.. and mk2 will have uttam aesa in that case.. tracking range will be lower.

Even If 100 Km it doesn't matter did MKI Earlier Detection mattered its Superiority on 27 feb What Matters is BVRAAM's NEZ And Firing solution and EW & DRFM capacity

Anyway rest as I have said we definitely have an advantage with Derby ER and ASRAAM .

Since we don't know if their long range weapons are actually as effective as they claim them to be.

I am Just going by Track record Of Quality Of Western weapons vs Chinese Reverse engineer shit

 

[WARREN SS]

J 10 c employs new AeSA radar with 170+ range for 3m2 with 1200 + Trm

They Can Claim Jack shit they are CCP Bloody Propaganda Machine
there Soldiers Are pathetically poor robots

 

[Bleh]

SP-21 now SP-17
So this is possibly SP-22 aka SP-18?

 

[FGFAPilot1]

Has the canon been properly tested in flight in any of the Tejas variants?

 

[samsaptaka]

But why do you have problem with Derby are you another Pro Pak dove ?

Far from it bruh, far from it ....
I am an indigenous weapon supporter that's all.
But getting back OT, till now I don't thin Astra has been test fired from Tejas whereas Derby has ? Why ?

 

[Anathema]

Far from it bruh, far from it ....
I am an indigenous weapon supporter that's all.
But getting back OT, till now I don't thin Astra has been test fired from Tejas whereas Derby has ? Why ?

Coz - weapons integration takes time. Every weapon especially BVR and PGM has to be slaved to radar/guidance systems. It requires mapping between radar and missile. It requires thorough envelope testing to make sure firing solution is available in all situations. Lot of these testing is done in simulator - some in real world. Astra is a 2 way data link missile - it increases integration and testing time since you have a lot of scenarios that you can support. Additionally you have other scenarios that you need to test, how does missile plume affect engine of thefighter ! Does it disturb CG in any way ? etc ,etc. Typically it takes at least 1 yr to 1.5 yrs to completely operationalize a new store.

 

[samsaptaka]

Coz - weapons integration takes time. Every weapon especially BVR and PGM has to be slaved to radar/guidance systems. It requires mapping between radar and missile. It requires thorough envelope testing to make sure firing solution is available in all situations. Lot of these testing is done in simulator - some in real world. Astra is a 2 way data link missile - it increases integration and testing time since you have a lot of scenarios that you can support. Additionally you have other scenarios that you need to test, how does missile plume affect engine of thefighter ! Does it disturb CG in any way ? etc ,etc. Typically it takes at least 1 yr to 1.5 yrs to completely operationalize a new store.

Thanks for the information.
So any idea what is the progress so far in integrating Astra on Tejas ?

 

[Lancer]

ORCA imo is waste of time more than anything else. Focus on Tejas SPORT, MK-1A and MK-2 and AMCA. The next twin engine fighter should a 5th gen one. Eitherway 36-54 Rafale are virtually a done deal just a matter of time when there funds are made available.

What do you think the final tally of Rafales will be in IAF? Chances for selection as Naval MMRCA?

 

[Lancer]

Their KungFu also developed by an Indian An old Buddhist monk who is a Kalaripayattu and yoga master , these Chinkies are worshipping him even today .

Yes, his name was Bodhidharma - he's well recognized and respected in East Asia.

 

[Lancer]

Derby ER is the longest spear we have.. and a tested one. (160km) As meteor isn't available for Tejas this is the best we can get.

Astra is on Tejas too as medium range (80km-110km)

Derby is definitely in another league right now in terms of electronics radar anti-jamming etc.

Astra will be the standard weapon of IAF throughout its inventory and evolve with mk2 version.

But why do you have problem with Derby are you another Pro Pak dove ?

160 KM... Wow. If only we had that during the post-Balakot skirmish. Is it planned to be integrated on all our planes going forward?

 

[Steven Rogers]

Elta 2052 on Tejaa has 800 around Trm the range is less too 150 km for 3 m2 .

Uttam radar tracking range will be around 130 km

GaN based AeSA isn't available to us right now it can increase the range by 50%

GaN Aesa will be doing away with the complex cooling system rather than beefing up the range....

 

[Steven Rogers]

J 10 c employs new AeSA radar with 170+ range for 3m2 with 1200 + Trm

How did you came to conclusion that J 10 RCS will be 8 m2 ? Is their any data you can show ?

When loaded Tejas will be 3m2 around . We don't have any data except one old statement which said the clean configuration RCS will be one third due to size.

Elta radar on Tejas is adjusted to be fit on small nose size of Tejas it's trm are almost halved at 800 around. The GaN version isn't available now.. and mk2 will have uttam aesa in that case.. tracking range will be lower.

Anyway rest as I have said we definitely have an advantage with Derby ER and ASRAAM .

Since we don't know if their long range weapons are actually as effective as they claim them to be.

That's what Chinese say..............will love to know which Aesa type they use on j10C...

 

[WARREN SS]

That's what Chinese say..............will love to know which Aesa type they use on j10C...

unlike Russians Equipment Who open to Western criticisms Chinese always guarded Its Radar

Chinese Who are still Struggling With Engine tech And depend on Russians For Air defense

It’s not just about range. There are a lot of other variables. Electrical power (how much can a small underpowered single engine fighter jet generate?), resistance to jamming, resistance to spoofing etc, computing power (ie agility, number of targets it can track and process reliably), cooling cycle, different modes and how reliable is it from a systems perspective? How good is the interface? How easy is it to use/fight?

These are things the Chinese and PAF do not want in the public domain. There will be baseline figures that will give some sort of benchmark but nobody knows how realistic they are. Given the radar is Chinese made and they are desperate to sell more of them, probably not very realistic. The marketing numbers are not much more than guided speculation.

 

[Flying Dagger]

160 KM... Wow. If only we had that during the post-Balakot skirmish. Is it planned to be integrated on all our planes going forward?

Tejas and may be Sukhoi.. if Russians do not create any problem or we get a better offer from them.

 

[Immanuel]

What do you think the final tally of Rafales will be in IAF? Chances for selection as Naval MMRCA?

IAF 72-126 depends on how much money in available at later dates. IN chances are lower since the SH Block 3 is better suited for our needs.

 

[Lancer]

IAF 72-126 depends on how much money in available at later dates. IN chances are lower since the SH Block 3 is better suited for our needs.

Interesting, what about the F-18 is better for us specifically?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Loaded F-16 Viper is 5m2 I am sure Chinese Substandard RAM coating Can't match them


Even If 100 Km it doesn't matter did MKI Earlier Detection mattered its Superiority on 27 feb What Matters is BVRAAM's NEZ And Firing solution and EW & DRFM capacity

I am Just going by Track record Of Quality Of Western weapons vs Chinese Reverse engineer shit

Yes the Sukhoi radar's range matter for sure.. as you can track enemy aircrafts awacs from far off and plan your position accordingly.

It is effective in other mission profile too where smaller stealthy aircraft with radar off can be passed on info by Sukhoi with radar on. And that plane can engage the enemy.

Inshort What Sukhoi didn't had was longer range BVR.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Interesting, what about the F-18 is better for us specifically?

For our aircraft carrier type , cost wise , politically and make in India offer. In naval role it is a great platform.