Know Your 'Rafale'

BON PLAN

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FBW will not magically erase the problem of drag. Pointing to a few exercises also mean little since the scenarios/restrictions and rules of engagement as well as pilot skills are not known. A Rafale is also probably not going to out turning a Hornet at lower speeds. That 180° turn you mentioned is a 1 circle turn, a two circle turn is were the Rafale would begin to suffer due to its drag.


Mirages got hammered by Harriers in the Folkland war and they got hammered by F-14s and F-4s during the Iran Iraq war. Friendly exercises mean nothing.

A delta wing does not want to get into a two circle fight:

View attachment 68873
Stop speaking of Mirage III or F1 (the one hammered in Falkland (at their extreme range when Harrier was near the carrier so more endurance. LOL) in Iran-Irak, too easy to compare single light against medium and heavy twin, with more modern weapon system...). Or compare it to F104.

The Mirage 2000 is onother beast. And yes the FBW helps to reduce the drag, because the plane is instable and go in turn easily , using the instability.

Rafale smashed the F14 and FA18 in dog fight. And it only need 2 turns to be in the tail of the latest. I don't know if it was 2 turns left, or right or right then left and it's not important.

Rafale beat all in dog fight, including EF2000. It is nearly on par with F22. AND THAT WITH ONLY 2 x 5T DRY and 7.5 T FULL PC ENGINE. It was the question of the beginning.
 

Neptune

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.

Rafale smashed the F14 and FA18 in dog fight. And it only need 2 turns to be in the tail of the latest. I don't know if it was 2 turns left, or right or right then left and it's not important.



Yes, it is important, it make all the difference in the world, so does the condition such as wether it was a head-on merge, or ‘butterfly’ merge or whatever, it makes the difference between winning and losing. Delta wings do very well in a 1 circle fight but begin to bleed tremendous energy in a 2 circle turn. Deltas also usually do very well at high speeds but not so much at lower speeds. This is why I said altitude, airspeed, fuel load and any additional add-on such as external fuel tanks or weapons completely effect aircraft performance. Any aircraft can be beaten, even T-38s have HUD kills of F-22s and F-22s are in another league.


Now the T-38 is the king of all aircraft. If those T-38 pilots did this to F-22s then Rafales would do even worse.

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Rafale beat all in dog fight, including EF2000. It is nearly on par with F22. AND THAT WITH ONLY 2 x 5T DRY and 7.5 T FULL PC ENGINE. It was the question of the beginning.

I hate to crash your party but one German F-4 shot down 5 Rafales in 2008. So those exercises mean little especially when important details are left out. How many other times have Rafales been killed? NATO allies do not brag about those kills to journalists for marketing like the French do.


The French are not so excited and enthusiastic to share how they lost to F-4s, they only like to brag when they win.


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You mentioned the Rafale being almost on par to F-22, well on that infamous Rafale HUD with the F-22, the Rafale could not actually out turn the F-22. In 90% of the video the F-22 is not even in the HUD shot, there was only a few times the F-22 appeared in the Rafale HUD and that was because the F-22 pilot made errors and ‘reversed’. The Rafale could not even crank its nose anywhere near the F-22. There is a video of the two retired US pilots breaking down the HUD footage. 1 pilot used to fly the F-18 and his squadron fought Rafales, he now flies F-18s for Malaysia and has faced Malaysian SU-30s, the other pilot flew F-16s and F-18s. They shed a lot of light on that video and dispelled a lot of propaganda. They also confirmed what I said, the Rafale dumps tremendous energy on turns.


 

Lancer

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Ya'll Nibbiars Taking cue from India and Fed up by China's aggression, Indonesia Okays deal to buy 36 Rafales from France.
Doesn't this mean that deliveries for any Indian follow-on order will be further delayed?
 

BON PLAN

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I hate to crash your party but one German F-4 shot down 5 Rafales in 2008.
And how many F4 were shooted down during the same exercise ?
What was the Rafale role (bomber?) and the F4 role (air defense?)

Better to compare full air to air training. The case of the first encounter between Rafale and F14 + FA18.
 

Neptune

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And how many F4 were shooted down during the same exercise ?
What was the Rafale role (bomber?) and the F4 role (air defense?)

Better to compare full air to air training. The case of the first encounter between Rafale and F14 + FA18.

Suddenly you care about all the details and you theorize (with zero evidence) the Rafale could have been a bombers once defeated by F-4s in mock combat? You often boast about Rafales winning in mock combat, which is fine and interesting to talk about and I have done it in the past too; however, you completely disregard important factors that are not revealed to the public and draw conclusions that Rafale can out turn everything every time under any scenario.



LOL.
Is it a EF eater or a Rafale eater ? The drawing is a Eurofighter !

There was no Eurofighters at Frisian Flag 2008. Obviously the text on the F-4 states Rafales were shot down. Obviously the pictures canards are drawn wrong.


Here read uphttps://www.aviamagazine.com/reports/exercise/2008/frisianflag/index.aspx
 

BON PLAN

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Suddenly you care about all the details and you theorize (with zero evidence) the Rafale could have been a bombers once defeated by F-4s in mock combat? You often boast about Rafales winning in mock combat, which is fine and interesting to talk about and I have done it in the past too; however, you completely disregard important factors that are not revealed to the public and draw conclusions that Rafale can out turn everything every time under any scenario.
Rafale versus F14 and FA18 was in air to air WVR engagement.
Rafale versus F4 : we don't know. If you have a source give it.
This is mine : https://omnirole-rafale.com/performances/

Capture.PNG
 

BON PLAN

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Interesting development, this could very well signal a big bulk order for F-18's with Rafale numbers remaining limited.

The IAF sustainability is already a nightmare due to the diversity of jets.
Once Rafale is entered service, I've a big doubt they will purchase another one, not more efficient. So no way for IAF. And IN will follow because their bulk order is becoming smaller.
My opinion is that SH18 is only a dog used by indian top brass to bargain with Dassault.
 

BON PLAN

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Indonesia To Buy 48 Rafale
Negotiations between France and Indonesia for the purchase of 48 French Rafale fighter jets are advancing at a fast pace and a deal could be inked soon, French website La Tribune.fr
The french def minister now say it's for 36 birds. But it remains a good news.

And Greece is to inked the contract for 18 (12 2nd hand and 6 new) before the end of this year. Maybe in the 19-20 december.
 

FalconSlayers

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And how many F4 were shooted down during the same exercise ?
What was the Rafale role (bomber?) and the F4 role (air defense?)

Better to compare full air to air training. The case of the first encounter between Rafale and F14 + FA18.
Never mind bro even our MiG-21s have shot down American F-16s and F-15s in Exercises.
 

FalconSlayers

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The IAF sustainability is already a nightmare due to the diversity of jets.
Once Rafale is entered service, I've a big doubt they will purchase another one, not more efficient. So no way for IAF. And IN will follow because their bulk order is becoming smaller.
My opinion is that SH18 is only a dog used by indian top brass to bargain with Dassault.
You can’t trust the Americans when it comes to spares and availability. Just look at Pakistani F-16s, no upgrades over geo political reasons.
 

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