Know Your 'Rafale'

Neptune

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
552
Likes
1,922
Country flag

Lol even America Chinooks penetrated deep into Pakistan airspace while F-16s were flying around unable to find the Chinooks. Meanwhile Navy Seals were killing Bin Laden and many other terrorists and blowing up shit right next to a Pakistani military base.

Any Indian aircraft can penetrate deep into Pakistani airspace and probably make it back as long as Indians use the element of surprise by choosing a time where no Pakistan aircraft are airborne, or a combination of some or all of the follows. Choosing a time when Pakistani air controllers/pilots are rotating shifts, or when India knows when Pakistani aircraft are at the lowest operational rates due to maintenance or overseas exercises, for example. The terrain will always be favorable for avoiding radar anyways.

Even jammers can confuse Pakistan by presenting endless false targets and sending Pakistan on wild goose chases. Probably what the US did and why Pakistani F-16s we’re flying around unable to locate US helicopters.
 
Last edited:

BON PLAN

-*-
Contributor
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
4,947
Likes
2,898
Country flag
PAF Air Marshal (chancellor of PAFs Air university) is worried that IAF Rafales will strike multiple targets inside Pakistan in the near future and will penetrate deep into Pak airspace

 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,271
Likes
11,447
Country flag
IAF team in France to make preparations to induct more Rafale jets

As it prepares to induct a second batch of Rafale jets, the Indian Air Force has sent a team of officials to France to oversee the logistical issues and review the training of a hand-picked group of pilots at the Saint-Dizier air base there, officials said on Thursday. The second batch of four Rafale jets is expected to arrive in India in the next four weeks. The first batch of five Rafale jets arrived in India on July 29, nearly four years after India signed an inter-governmental agreement with France to procure 36 of these aircraft at a cost of Rs 59,000 crore. Several teams from the IAF have visited France since January to oversee the progress of the Rafale project including integration of India-specific enhancements and weapons systems, the officials said. The IAF’s Rafale project management team has an office in Paris headed by a Group Captain-rank officer. The team is tasked with overseeing the production timelines as well as coordinating training of the crew. A team of experts headed by assistant chief of air staff (projects) reached France earlier this week to coordinate logistical issues as well as training of pilots and technicians, said the officials. The first batch of Rafale jets was finally inducted into the IAF on September 10. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria on October 5 said the induction of all 36 Rafale jets will be completed by 2023. Ten Rafale jets have been delivered to India so far and five of them stayed back in France for imparting training to IAF pilots. Known for their air-superiority and precision strikes, the Rafale jets are India’s first major acquisition of fighter planes in 23 year after the Sukhoi jets were imported from Russia. The newly inducted fleet has been carrying out sorties in eastern Ladakh where Indian and Chinese troops are engaged in a bitter border row for over five months. A group of IAF pilots is currently undergoing training on Rafale jets at the Saint-Dizier airbase in eastern France.
 

Haldilal

लड़ते लड़ते जीना है, लड़ते लड़ते मरना है
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
3,765
Likes
11,820
Country flag
Ya'll Nibbiars 4 Rafale fighter jets to join Indian Air Force in November first week.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,271
Likes
11,447
Country flag
Indian Defence Updates : HAL-Mahindra 134 Rafale,6 Next-Gen Corvettes,Nirbhay SCM Snag,SANT By 2021
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,271
Likes
11,447
Country flag
India begins manufacturing parts for Rafale fighter jets in Nagpur
New Delhi: In a first, India has started manufacturing parts for Rafale, some of which could even be used on the 36 French fighter jets ordered by the Narendra Modi government in 2016.


The first set of doors that cover the twin engines of the fighter jets has come out of the Nagpur facility, which is a joint venture of Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence and French firm Dassault Aviation.


“We are seeing India has one of the drivers of the Dassault Aviation products. Be it the Falcon business jet or now the Rafale, every product in the future will have an Indian connection,” an official of the French defence major told ThePrint.


Defence sources said the idea is to scale up production of Rafale parts in the coming months.


Asked if the doors will be fitted on board the Indian Rafale fighter jets, another company official said, “It is a may or may not be. It all depends on the rate of production and the quantity of parts available back in France. But the parts manufactured in Nagpur will go up on the Rafale for sure.”

First 4 Rafale jets expected to arrive in May

The first four Rafale jets are expected to arrive in India in May. While one squadron of the Rafale fighter jets will be based in Ambala, the other would be in Hasimara, West Bengal.


Industry sources said that what works for foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers is that production in India helps them to meet offset obligations and also to procure materials and products at a much lower rate since the labour cost is less in the country.


The Nagpur facility of Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) was initially making only cockpits for the French manufacturer’s Falcon business jets, besides other parts.


The facility was only meant to manufacture components for Falcon jets and not for the Rafale jets.


But in June 2019, ThePrint had reported that Dassault Aviation is likely to start manufacturing components of the Rafale fighter jets at its India facility, with the wares destined for global customers.


Dassault and Reliance announced their joint venture and the creation of DRAL on 3 October 2016, barely two weeks after India signed a 7.878 billion euro deal for 36 Rafale jets in a flyaway condition.


The DRAL facility was inaugurated in October 2017, in the presence of Dassault CEO Eric Trappier and Anil Ambani.
 

BON PLAN

-*-
Contributor
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
4,947
Likes
2,898
Country flag
India begins manufacturing parts for Rafale fighter jets in Nagpur
New Delhi: In a first, India has started manufacturing parts for Rafale, some of which could even be used on the 36 French fighter jets ordered by the Narendra Modi government in 2016.


The first set of doors that cover the twin engines of the fighter jets has come out of the Nagpur facility, which is a joint venture of Anil Ambani’s Reliance Defence and French firm Dassault Aviation.


“We are seeing India has one of the drivers of the Dassault Aviation products. Be it the Falcon business jet or now the Rafale, every product in the future will have an Indian connection,” an official of the French defence major told ThePrint.


Defence sources said the idea is to scale up production of Rafale parts in the coming months.


Asked if the doors will be fitted on board the Indian Rafale fighter jets, another company official said, “It is a may or may not be. It all depends on the rate of production and the quantity of parts available back in France. But the parts manufactured in Nagpur will go up on the Rafale for sure.”

First 4 Rafale jets expected to arrive in May

The first four Rafale jets are expected to arrive in India in May. While one squadron of the Rafale fighter jets will be based in Ambala, the other would be in Hasimara, West Bengal.


Industry sources said that what works for foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers is that production in India helps them to meet offset obligations and also to procure materials and products at a much lower rate since the labour cost is less in the country.


The Nagpur facility of Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) was initially making only cockpits for the French manufacturer’s Falcon business jets, besides other parts.


The facility was only meant to manufacture components for Falcon jets and not for the Rafale jets.


But in June 2019, ThePrint had reported that Dassault Aviation is likely to start manufacturing components of the Rafale fighter jets at its India facility, with the wares destined for global customers.


Dassault and Reliance announced their joint venture and the creation of DRAL on 3 October 2016, barely two weeks after India signed a 7.878 billion euro deal for 36 Rafale jets in a flyaway condition.


The DRAL facility was inaugurated in October 2017, in the presence of Dassault CEO Eric Trappier and Anil Ambani.
old news. february....
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,271
Likes
11,447
Country flag
ToT or CKD for Made in India ” Dassault Rafale ?

8 Years after Talks broke down in 2012, over differences in localisation and pricing of Made in India Dassault Rafale for the Indian Air Force (IAF). Chorus for Direct Government to Government (G2G) deal for the purchase of 114 units of Dassault Rafale as being growing within IAF after France delivered 5 Rafale fighter jets to India and 4 more will be added by end of this month. idrw.org has been told that a hectic Diplomatic push has been seen to convert open tender for 114 units into a G2G deal for the purchase of Dassault Rafale, that will be manufactured in India locally by State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which has been in talks with the French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault for possible local manufacturing of this jets in near future. The contract price for 36 Dassault Rafale with India specific enhancement and with 75% Fleet availability clause (Spares supplies ) and with mandatory 50% of the USD9.27 billion contract price to be procured from the Indian aerospace and defense sectors as part of the offsets clause meant that the deal was criticized by Opposition parties in India for to being too expensive and Indian National Congress (INC) even called the G2G Deal for 36 jets a scam which was later dismissed by the Supreme court of India. Chief of Defence Staff Gen Bipin Rawat had hinted recently that 36 more fighter jets could be ordered bringing the fleet total to 72, while in the bargain, IAF cancels MMRCA tender for 114 jets and instead orders locally made Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 jets which have not gone down well with Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria and his Deputy Chief of Air Force Air Marshal Sandeep Singh who are pushing for 114 units of Dassault Rafale over 36 which have already been procured. In the new DAP 2020, which came into effect on October 1, the Government has removed the requirement for the offset clause in Inter-Governmental Agreements (IGA) aka Government to Government (G2G) that hints at the possibility of a G2G deal with Dassault Rafale sometime in 2022-23 before the Government goes into election mode in 2024. idrw.org has been informed that while IAF wants 114 more Dassault Rafale fighter jet, GOI and MOD are practically looking at a smaller order number or the contract price might exceed $25 billion due to higher flyaway cost per aircraft since it will be manufactured by State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) compared with the original the french manufacturer. Rawat has advocated for staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to ensure that allocated funds can cover the price. Dassault has claimed that with one time India specific enhancement investment is done, the second lot of jets will be cheaper and with offset clause removed it be cheaper for the company to manufacture them and offer more discounts. Rawat had suggested that 36 more Dassault Rafale can be ordered in a G2G deal but instead of India pushing for complete Transfer of Technology (ToT) and Complete license-building them from raw material stages it can be done in CKD (Complete Knock Down) so that HAL can be restricted only for final assembly rather than complete built which can see 30-40% additional Owing to the low volume of production of the and due to economies of scale come into play. Once the Second lot of 36 Dassault Rafale are delivered by 2027-28, IAF can then place further orders for more 36 jets while HAL facilities will be used for the next round of localization when these jets are assembled locally. A 114-jet contract is estimated to be valued at $15 billion but, India paid 9.27 billion for 36 jets, and even if the 30% discount is given that still be $18 billion if ordered in CKD and could cost more if it comes with Complete ToT.
 

FalconSlayers

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
839
Likes
2,104
Country flag
ToT or CKD for Made in India ” Dassault Rafale ?

8 Years after Talks broke down in 2012, over differences in localisation and pricing of Made in India Dassault Rafale for the Indian Air Force (IAF). Chorus for Direct Government to Government (G2G) deal for the purchase of 114 units of Dassault Rafale as being growing within IAF after France delivered 5 Rafale fighter jets to India and 4 more will be added by end of this month. idrw.org has been told that a hectic Diplomatic push has been seen to convert open tender for 114 units into a G2G deal for the purchase of Dassault Rafale, that will be manufactured in India locally by State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which has been in talks with the French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault for possible local manufacturing of this jets in near future. The contract price for 36 Dassault Rafale with India specific enhancement and with 75% Fleet availability clause (Spares supplies ) and with mandatory 50% of the USD9.27 billion contract price to be procured from the Indian aerospace and defense sectors as part of the offsets clause meant that the deal was criticized by Opposition parties in India for to being too expensive and Indian National Congress (INC) even called the G2G Deal for 36 jets a scam which was later dismissed by the Supreme court of India. Chief of Defence Staff Gen Bipin Rawat had hinted recently that 36 more fighter jets could be ordered bringing the fleet total to 72, while in the bargain, IAF cancels MMRCA tender for 114 jets and instead orders locally made Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 jets which have not gone down well with Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria and his Deputy Chief of Air Force Air Marshal Sandeep Singh who are pushing for 114 units of Dassault Rafale over 36 which have already been procured. In the new DAP 2020, which came into effect on October 1, the Government has removed the requirement for the offset clause in Inter-Governmental Agreements (IGA) aka Government to Government (G2G) that hints at the possibility of a G2G deal with Dassault Rafale sometime in 2022-23 before the Government goes into election mode in 2024. idrw.org has been informed that while IAF wants 114 more Dassault Rafale fighter jet, GOI and MOD are practically looking at a smaller order number or the contract price might exceed $25 billion due to higher flyaway cost per aircraft since it will be manufactured by State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) compared with the original the french manufacturer. Rawat has advocated for staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to ensure that allocated funds can cover the price. Dassault has claimed that with one time India specific enhancement investment is done, the second lot of jets will be cheaper and with offset clause removed it be cheaper for the company to manufacture them and offer more discounts. Rawat had suggested that 36 more Dassault Rafale can be ordered in a G2G deal but instead of India pushing for complete Transfer of Technology (ToT) and Complete license-building them from raw material stages it can be done in CKD (Complete Knock Down) so that HAL can be restricted only for final assembly rather than complete built which can see 30-40% additional Owing to the low volume of production of the and due to economies of scale come into play. Once the Second lot of 36 Dassault Rafale are delivered by 2027-28, IAF can then place further orders for more 36 jets while HAL facilities will be used for the next round of localization when these jets are assembled locally. A 114-jet contract is estimated to be valued at $15 billion but, India paid 9.27 billion for 36 jets, and even if the 30% discount is given that still be $18 billion if ordered in CKD and could cost more if it comes with Complete ToT.
Thats why I call make in India a joke, unless Dassault Opens its manufacturing unit in India there is no need to ask them to open it here for rafales, this serious mental problem of making foreign goods in India under a deal is plaguing our forces.

Buying F-16 Block 72 Would have been more practical coz Lockheed Martin wanted to set up a factory with their own wish and not because they are obliged to do so under a deal so per unit cost of an F-16 would’ve been low and we would have got the aircraft On time.

we asked the Russians for license for MKIs and now a single Su-30 MKI made in India costs 400 crore Rupees which when imported would have costed 276 cores each. We could have directly imported them and asked for other necessary things like ToT separately. Like we should import Rafales from France instead of making here and let the rest of RFI be same, import rafales, get the ToT, offset and other things. This is so lame making foreign aircraft in India at higher cost, long delays and cost overruns.

And the offset clause is a joke, our MoD under Modi is no better, from Su-30MKI to P8i Poseidon, to the Apache and Chinook to the Rafale deal, no OEM completed its offset promise and our MoD is sleeping, thats why our indigenous projects delay.

Yes Make in India must be promoted but our government is only promoting Make foreign items in India not just in defence but overall.

Make in India should be design, develop and make and manufacture in India from scratch.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top