Know Your 'Rafale'

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

This is what I am talking about:

It looks like the IAF will be robbed in broad daylight by promises of turning Rafale into a LO, which cannot be delivered.

Even F35 is not stealth with drop tanks and external payload. Drop tanks can always be dropped midway when stealth is needed. So, that is never considered in the first place. Next, we have weapons load. Here stealth is needed for SEAD/DEAD and air superiority. Here the low observability comes to relevance. Nevertheless, Rafale does not claim t be 5th generation equivalent. It is just low observation amongst the 4.5 gen planes

 

[vampyrbladez]

This is what I am talking about:

It looks like the IAF will be robbed in broad daylight by promises of turning Rafale into a LO, which cannot be delivered.

||STUPID POSTS LIKE OP FORCE ME TO RESPOND IN KIND||

Rafale has VLO features inherent in it's design and with time F4 upgrade will reach fruition. Even in OP's pictures it is evident that stealth design has been applied to the conformal fuel tanks (CFT) and inlet design to minimize RCS return from engine face. Global Security notes it as 1 RCS (m2).

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Here is an interesting take on approximate RCS of Rafale and Typhoon and respective BVR engagement envelopes.

When it comes to radar signature, whichever jet uses radar is going to be detected well beyond its own radar range and become a target. SPECTRA will give Rafale firing solution with 1* precision at 200 km, while Typhoon’s DASS achieves same precision at “more than” 100 km, and can be used to cue radar or IRST. Rafale will have RCS of 0,75-1,10 m2 with 6 missiles. Captor-M has range of 185 km vs 3 m2 target, while CAPTOR E has range of 216 km vs 3 m2 target. Thus Typhoon will detect Rafale at 131-144 km with CAPTOR-M or 153-168 km with CAPTOR-E. Engagement range will be 105-115 km with CAPTOR-M or 122-135 km with CAPTOR-E. However, since SPECTRA can reduce RCS by factor of 1,5 to 3, Rafale’s RCS is 0,25-0,75 m2. Consequently, Typhoon will detect Rafale at 99-131 km with CAPTOR-M or 116-153 km with CAPTOR-E; engagement range is 79-105 km with CAPTOR-M and 92-122 km with CAPTOR-E. Typhoon will have RCS of 0,9-1,2 m2 with 6 missiles. RBE-2 has range of 139 km vs 5 m2 target. RBE-2AA has range of 208 km vs 5 m2 target, or 278 km when coupled with SPECTRA. Consequently, Rafale will detect Typhoon at 90-97 km with RBE-2, or 135-195 km with RBE-2AA. Engagement ranges will be 72-78 km with RBE-2 or 108-156 km with RBE-2AA. Rafale’s OSF has range of 80 km vs subsonic head-on target at 20.000 ft. At 30.000 ft, range may be 80-90 km, which means that Rafale will be able to attack Typhoon from 60-70 km. Typhoon’s PIRATE has 90 km range vs subsonic head-on target at unknown altitude, giving it 60-70 km engagement range. That being said, ability of both to attack the opponent will be limited by missile effective range (15-100 km for Meteor, 9-36 km for AIM-120D, 4-16 km for MICA).

https://defenseissues.net/2015/11/01/dassault-rafale-vs-eurofighter-typhoon/

However Rafale like most 4.5 generation aircraft has no internal weapon bays and has to use external pylons greatly increasing RCS footprint. Thus to mitigate this, the concept of hunter killer units arises. A 'spotter' with only IR A2A missiles designates targets and sends them to the 'shooter' who acts like a bomb truck. The bomb truck releases payload as called and the spotter designates updated target data to the weapon.

In areas with S 300 / S 400, VLO is critical for designating AA/AD units and targeting them appropriately. Thus having stealthy aircraft is very necessary. One Rafale can be the spotter and conduct EW warfare and mark out targets while another one can move with the Su 30MKIs and run Air Superiority once coast is clear or launch ordinance based on data sent from within the 'zone' by the spotter.

Here is an old article from 2002 when USAF was considering a bomber variant of F 22A for bomb truck duties sans the TVC nozzles called F/B 22. However F 22A can mostly perform this role with F 35A/B/C or even B 1B, B 2 and B 52 bombers and multirole 4.5 generation fighters already in service.

https://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-06/smarter-bomber

Here is another proposed arsenal plane aka bomb truck the B1R variant of the B1B bomber.

USAF is revisiting the concept.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/02/pentagon-wants-arsenal-planes-to-beat-chinas-air-defenses/

 

[asianobserve]

||STUPID POSTS LIKE OP FORCE ME TO RESPOND IN KIND||

Rafale has VLO features inherent in it's design and with time F4 upgrade will reach fruition. Even in OP's pictures it is evident that stealth design has been applied to the conformal fuel tanks (CFT) and inlet design to minimize RCS return from engine face. Global Security notes it as 1 RCS (m2).

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Here is an interesting take on approximate RCS of Rafale and Typhoon and respective BVR engagement envelopes.



https://defenseissues.net/2015/11/01/dassault-rafale-vs-eurofighter-typhoon/

However Rafale like most 4.5 generation aircraft has no internal weapon bays and has to use external pylons greatly increasing RCS footprint. Thus to mitigate this, the concept of hunter killer units arises. A 'spotter' with only IR A2A missiles designates targets and sends them to the 'shooter' who acts like a bomb truck. The bomb truck releases payload as called and the spotter designates updated target data to the weapon.

In areas with S 300 / S 400, VLO is critical for designating AA/AD units and targeting them appropriately. Thus having stealthy aircraft is very necessary. One Rafale can be the spotter and conduct EW warfare and mark out targets while another one can move with the Su 30MKIs and run Air Superiority once coast is clear or launch ordinance based on data sent from within the 'zone' by the spotter.

Here is an old article from 2002 when USAF was considering a bomber variant of F 22A for bomb truck duties sans the TVC nozzles called F/B 22. However F 22A can mostly perform this role with F 35A/B/C or even B 1B, B 2 and B 52 bombers and multirole 4.5 generation fighters already in service.

https://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-06/smarter-bomber

Here is another proposed arsenal plane aka bomb truck the B1R variant of the B1B bomber.

USAF is revisiting the concept.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/02/pentagon-wants-arsenal-planes-to-beat-chinas-air-defenses/

The Rafale RCS figure is calculated using clean configuration. You add external stores like EFTs, missiles and bombs then the RCS rises also. That's the problem with 4th gen fighters.

That's why Boeing proposed these modifications to its SH and F-15 fighters with internal weapons bays using pods and reconfigured CTFs.

1. Advanced SH

2. Silent Eagle

As to spotter concept for Rafale, well you still have to contend with the short legs of Rafale if it relies on internal fuel alone. Note that on the minimum Rafale carries 2 EFTs for combat missions. Thus, with 2 EFTs and 2 MICAs Rafale will still light up on the radar screen like any other 4th gen fighter.

Again for Boeing, they added a CFT on the SH to do away with EFTs:

This cannot be implemented however with the Silent Eagle concept since the CFT there is adopted for internal weapons carriage.

So, without addressing the issues of external weapons and fuel tanks on Rafale, I don't think its practical for the IAf to spend money modifying Rafale's present setup like:

1. changing the current single tail into twin canted tails;
2. adding retractable fuel probe;
3. Installing internally A2G targetting pods; or
4. modifying engine noozles.

What the IAf should be doing is integrating non-french weapons into Rafale specially new stealthy stand-off weapons that can let Rafale hit targets from great distances.

For spotter concept, stealthy UAVs would be better at this job for the IAF, and cheaper. And the it should be focusing more on UAV swarms.

 

[smestarz]

Its wonderful to see Artwork now being peddled as "development" nice

||STUPID POSTS LIKE OP FORCE ME TO RESPOND IN KIND||

Rafale has VLO features inherent in it's design and with time F4 upgrade will reach fruition. Even in OP's pictures it is evident that stealth design has been applied to the conformal fuel tanks (CFT) and inlet design to minimize RCS return from engine face. Global Security notes it as 1 RCS (m2).

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Here is an interesting take on approximate RCS of Rafale and Typhoon and respective BVR engagement envelopes.



https://defenseissues.net/2015/11/01/dassault-rafale-vs-eurofighter-typhoon/

However Rafale like most 4.5 generation aircraft has no internal weapon bays and has to use external pylons greatly increasing RCS footprint. Thus to mitigate this, the concept of hunter killer units arises. A 'spotter' with only IR A2A missiles designates targets and sends them to the 'shooter' who acts like a bomb truck. The bomb truck releases payload as called and the spotter designates updated target data to the weapon.

In areas with S 300 / S 400, VLO is critical for designating AA/AD units and targeting them appropriately. Thus having stealthy aircraft is very necessary. One Rafale can be the spotter and conduct EW warfare and mark out targets while another one can move with the Su 30MKIs and run Air Superiority once coast is clear or launch ordinance based on data sent from within the 'zone' by the spotter.

Here is an old article from 2002 when USAF was considering a bomber variant of F 22A for bomb truck duties sans the TVC nozzles called F/B 22. However F 22A can mostly perform this role with F 35A/B/C or even B 1B, B 2 and B 52 bombers and multirole 4.5 generation fighters already in service.

https://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-06/smarter-bomber

Here is another proposed arsenal plane aka bomb truck the B1R variant of the B1B bomber.

USAF is revisiting the concept.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/02/pentagon-wants-arsenal-planes-to-beat-chinas-air-defenses/

 

[smestarz]

BTW Rafale RCS as peddled mostly is from frontal and not all aspect.. So you expect the enemy radars to always try and look from one angle only?

Further more, you talk of F4??? you are naive... F4 is still a concept,.
F3R is being implemented Indian Rafales are supposed to be of F3R standards.

So, F4 standard when ever it may be, would be time with 6th Gen will be flying, and you are talking how wonderful 4.5th Gen tech will be? Wonderful..

||STUPID POSTS LIKE OP FORCE ME TO RESPOND IN KIND||

Rafale has VLO features inherent in it's design and with time F4 upgrade will reach fruition. Even in OP's pictures it is evident that stealth design has been applied to the conformal fuel tanks (CFT) and inlet design to minimize RCS return from engine face. Global Security notes it as 1 RCS (m2).

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Here is an interesting take on approximate RCS of Rafale and Typhoon and respective BVR engagement envelopes.



https://defenseissues.net/2015/11/01/dassault-rafale-vs-eurofighter-typhoon/

However Rafale like most 4.5 generation aircraft has no internal weapon bays and has to use external pylons greatly increasing RCS footprint. Thus to mitigate this, the concept of hunter killer units arises. A 'spotter' with only IR A2A missiles designates targets and sends them to the 'shooter' who acts like a bomb truck. The bomb truck releases payload as called and the spotter designates updated target data to the weapon.

In areas with S 300 / S 400, VLO is critical for designating AA/AD units and targeting them appropriately. Thus having stealthy aircraft is very necessary. One Rafale can be the spotter and conduct EW warfare and mark out targets while another one can move with the Su 30MKIs and run Air Superiority once coast is clear or launch ordinance based on data sent from within the 'zone' by the spotter.

Here is an old article from 2002 when USAF was considering a bomber variant of F 22A for bomb truck duties sans the TVC nozzles called F/B 22. However F 22A can mostly perform this role with F 35A/B/C or even B 1B, B 2 and B 52 bombers and multirole 4.5 generation fighters already in service.

https://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-06/smarter-bomber

Here is another proposed arsenal plane aka bomb truck the B1R variant of the B1B bomber.

USAF is revisiting the concept.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/02/pentagon-wants-arsenal-planes-to-beat-chinas-air-defenses/

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

BTW Rafale RCS as peddled mostly is from frontal and not all aspect.. So you expect the enemy radars to always try and look from one angle only?

Even F35 is low observable from the front only The intent is to ensure that the plane is not visible when it is coming to strike but can be visible when it is going back or too near to be visible in other angles by when it will be too late

 

[asianobserve]

Even F35 is low observable from the front only The intent is to ensure that the plane is not visible when it is coming to strike but can be visible when it is going back or too near to be visible in other angles by when it will be too late

The RCS of the F-35 is more or less its combat RCS since its weapons are stowed internally and it does not have EFTs. Obviously, this is not the case of Rafale since it cannot go to combat clean, it has to hang its weapons either under its wings or fuselage and since it has not enough internal fuel load, it also has to hang EFTs under its wings and fuselage.

Besides, fighter planes do not only contend with A2A radar. In the case of India it has to contend more with ground based radars from China and Pakistan. Thus, against ground based radars with their beams looking up, Rafale will light up like a Christmas tree with weapons and EFTs hanging down from its wings and fuselage.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

The RCS of the F-35 is more or less its combat RCS since its weapons are stowed internally and it does not have EFTs. Obviously, this is not the case of Rafale since it cannot go to combat clean, it has to hang its weapons either under its wings or fuselage and since it has not enough internal fuel load, it also has to hang EFTs under its wings and fuselage.

Besides, fighter planes do not only contend with A2A radar. In the case of India it has to contend more with ground based radars from China and Pakistan. Thus, against ground based radars with their beams looking up, Rafale will light up like a Christmas tree with weapons and EFTs hanging down from its wings and fuselage.

You have not learnt of angle of elevation and trigonometry lessons in your school? A plane flying at height of 12km at a distance of 200km will appear at an angle of 3.5 degrees which is almost frontal angle itself'

Also, F35 can carry only 2JDAM and 2 AIM9 missiles which is too little to be called operational payload. SO, for any menaingful payload, F35 will be non-stealthy

 

[smestarz]

OK, F-35 is VLO, with an RCS of 0.005 m squared. and with RCS of 1 m squared you would call Rafale a stealth?
And this is about Clean config.
Now during fight, F-35 has the liberty to put its war load in internal bays thus keeping its RCS same, but Rafale has to put its load externally..guess what does it make? DIWALI !!!!

F-35 is a purpose built VLO plane developed and built ground up, Where as when Rafale was built and developed there was no concept of Stealth. That time not being able to be detected on Radar was to fly low. Or be able to outrun enemy missiles. So adding few fittings of sawtooth designs on wings and intake wont make it stealth. Else most countries would have put put sawtooth designs all over the plane including the pylons to make them stealthy wouldnt they? Oh maybe they did not try it..

A 4th Gen can try to imitate a 5th gen plane but it wont be.. its like the saying
Kaowa hans ki chaal chala langda kar thoda thoda

Even F35 is low observable from the front only The intent is to ensure that the plane is not visible when it is coming to strike but can be visible when it is going back or too near to be visible in other angles by when it will be too late

 

[smestarz]

So long as F-35 is able to get to its target undetected (which basically as you said) it can, isnt that enough for it to destroy a few targets?

Your calculations.. nice, So let us say that Indian Rafale is flying towards Islamabad from delhi, you mean to say that PAF will only have radars of Islamabad trying scanning it? The other radars will be all pointing in one direction only like spotlights? There wont be any airborne AEW plane that can detect at more than 300 kms? You know Pakistan itself has a few.

Or you mean to say that all of them will line up giving guard of honour?
I do wait for your logic

When you give that example I believe you are talking of one plane and one radar. Air defence is now network of Radards which have over lapping fields so as to detect multiple threats and having better picture to have better image of the whole battle field as a whole.

You have not learnt of angle of elevation and trigonometry lessons in your school? A plane flying at height of 12km at a distance of 200km will appear at an angle of 3.5 degrees which is almost frontal angle itself'

Also, F35 can carry only 2JDAM and 2 AIM9 missiles which is too little to be called operational payload. SO, for any menaingful payload, F35 will be non-stealthy

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

So long as F-35 is able to get to its target undetected (which basically as you said) it can, isnt that enough for it to destroy a few targets?

Your calculations.. nice, So let us say that Indian Rafale is flying towards Islamabad from delhi, you mean to say that PAF will only have radars of Islamabad trying scanning it? The other radars will be all pointing in one direction only like spotlights? There wont be any airborne AEW plane that can detect at more than 300 kms? You know Pakistan itself has a few.

Or you mean to say that all of them will line up giving guard of honour?
I do wait for your logic

When you give that example I believe you are talking of one plane and one radar. Air defence is now network of Radards which have over lapping fields so as to detect multiple threats and having better picture to have better image of the whole battle field as a whole.

By distance, I meant distance from border, not from target. Once you enter the border, then the radar at the edge of the border can see the plane from behind and that will be a dead give away for any plane. The huge jet flames and engine will never be covered even in F22/F35 or any plane ever built. So, it is important to consider distance only from the boundary.

About AEWACS, as I said, an AEWACS will be flying at 10km altitude. The incoming plane will be at 10-12km altitude. So, it will be looking at it at a straight line from the front, almost 0 degree angle when seeing it at 150km. Even the ground level radar will have an angle of arcsine (10/150) to arcsine(12/150) = 3.5 to 4.5 degree which is also almost straight.

Let us look at how VLO works:

In the region marked as "1", VLO is very difficult even for F35 type plane as Pakistan can have radars on 3 angles and the plane has to pass at the centre of the three radars to enter Pakistan.

In region "2", the plane can be VLO as Pakistani radar only in one direction. So, here the LO/VLO character of the plane comes to display.

In region "3", Pakistan can keep radar in 2 directions but the distance of curvature is minimal and hence the LO/VLO works here but at a lesser efficiency than in region "2".

If you want to go inside Pakistan then no VLO/LO will work without first carrying out a SEAD/DEAD against the frontline radars and air defence of Pakistan. Without taking out the radars in a sequential manner, it is not possible to strike interior without being detected even for F35.

 

[asianobserve]

You have not learnt of angle of elevation and trigonometry lessons in your school? A plane flying at height of 12km at a distance of 200km will appear at an angle of 3.5 degrees which is almost frontal angle itself'

Also, F35 can carry only 2JDAM and 2 AIM9 missiles which is too little to be called operational payload. SO, for any menaingful payload, F35 will be non-stealthy

Well that's a rather simplistic analysis. In any strike against either Chinese or Pakistani targets IAF planes will encounter multiple radars from different angles. Rafale with its external weapons and EFTs will be detected from greater distances than VLO optimized aircraft like the F-35.

On day 1 the targets are specific, mainly enemies radars and command and control posts. F-35s in that scenario will be armed internally in stealth mode in accordance with their particular roles in the strike. There is no need for a multitude of weapons. Then after the enemies AD is sufficiently degraded then an F-35 can resort to Beast Mode. Rafales on the other hand will have a harder time penetrating any modern integrated air defense network on day 1.

In other words, Rafale will never be comparable to F-35 in penetrating capabilities. It will have a hard time surviving day 1 ops much less being effective therein, especially against modern Chinese AD assets.

 

[asianobserve]

As Rafale is not much different than other Western 4th gen fighters then why spend a lot of money on it when the IAF can buy more similarly capable fighters for less the price? There is SH, F-16V or Gripen E. What would be more important if the IAF will settle for a 4th gen fighter is the quantity it can induct, number of weapons that are integrated, the price of both aircraft and weapons and cost of maintaining both.

Rafale is not only non-stealthy in real world combat configuration it is also too expensive for its capabilities.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Well that's a rather simplistic analysis. In any strike against either Chinese or Pakistani targets IAF planes will encounter multiple radars from different angles. Rafale with its external weapons and EFTs will be detected from greater distances than VLO optimized aircraft like the F-35.

On day 1 the targets are specific, mainly enemies radars and command and control posts. F-35s in that scenario will be armed internally in stealth mode in accordance with their particular roles in the strike. There is no need for a multitude of weapons. Then after the enemies AD is sufficiently degraded then an F-35 can resort to Beast Mode. Rafales on the other hand will have a harder time penetrating any modern integrated air defense network on day 1.

In other words, Rafale will never be comparable to F-35 in penetrating capabilities. It will habe a hard time surviving day 1 ops much less being effective therein, especially against modern Chinese AD assets.

Firstly, VLO/LO is not absolute Today's radars are extremely effective and can detect artillery shell launched over 100km away. Both India and China have advanced SAM capability which will prevent even F35 like planes from flying inside. SEAD/DEAD is also very difficult as India and China have indigenous manufacturing which can keep churning out more SAMs and missiles. Such fights are way more complex and will require large number of missile strikes over months to soften the enemy for any aerial roles. Fighting against giant powers like India and China will be too big and can't simply be stated to be about the VLO/LO planes.

I agree with you that Rafale does not have VLO like F35. Also, I never contended that Rafale is better than F35. I am only making 2 points:

• The VLO/LO scenario is not whole body but only in the front for every plane.
• F35 has too limited internal payload because of which its VLO is not really effective

As Rafale is not much different than other Western 4th gen fighters then why spend a lot of money on it when the IAF can buy more similarly capable fighters for less the price. There is SH, F-16V or Gripen E. What would be more important if the IAF will settle for a 4th gen fighter is the number of weapons that are integrated, the price of both aircraft and weapons and cost of maintsining both.

Rafale is not only non-stealthy in real world combat configuration it is also too expensive for its capabilities.

This question is answered by strategic consideration. Defence minister Parrikar had said in 2015 that Su30 is enough and there was no need for rafales. France may have agreed to provide some technology as offsets which could then help India enhance the speed at which it develops its Tejas MK2. Rafale deal is more about technology acquisition rather than the purchase of the planes itself. Otherwise if it was only about a bunch of rafales, it was better to stick with Su30

 

[asianobserve]

Firstly, VLO/LO is not absolute Today's radars are extremely effective and can detect artillery shell launched over 100km away. Both India and China have advanced SAM capability which will prevent even F35 like planes from flying inside. SEAD/DEAD is also very difficult as India and China have indigenous manufacturing which can keep churning out more SAMs and missiles. Such fights are way more complex and will require large number of missile strikes over months to soften the enemy for any aerial roles. Fighting against giant powers like India and China will be too big and can't simply be stated to be about the VLO/LO planes.

I agree with you that Rafale does not have VLO like F35. Also, I never contended that Rafale is better than F35. I am only making 2 points:

• The VLO/LO scenario is not whole body but only in the front for every plane.
• F35 has too limited internal payload because of which its VLO is not really effective

This question is answered by strategic consideration. Defence minister Parrikar had said in 2015 that Su30 is enough and there was no need for rafales. France may have agreed to provide some technology as offsets which could then help India enhance the speed at which it develops its Tejas MK2. Rafale deal is more about technology acquisition rather than the purchase of the planes itself. Otherwise if it was only about a bunch of rafales, it was better to stick with Su30

If it's strategic then why not buy France's latest Barracuda class sub or Mistral as these French products are very good against competition.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Even F35 is low observable from the front only

That is absolutely wrong
When looking at radar scattering graph of aircraft, one common mistake is to assume that aircraft will be detected by radar at a significantly longer distance from the side aspects or tail aspects, because radar scattering charts often show much higher radar cross section values for beam aspect and tail aspect compared to the frontal aspect of aircraft.

That misconception raised from the fact that most enthusiasts treat radar return as equally valuable regardless of aspect angle. That is not the case, however, and here is why:

.Most radar energy is transmitted and received via a main lobe aligned with the antenna’s boresight, but smaller amounts enter through sidelobes that point in almost all directions.

Radar performance degrades at viewing angles where a target must be distinguished from background clutter. Clutter can enter the receiver via the sidelobes, and the processor has no way of knowing the return did not come from the main lobe. Such returns can mask that of the target. Modern radars mitigate this phenomenon with Doppler processing. A pulse-Doppler radar records the time of arrival of a return and also compares its phase with that of the transmitted wave. The difference between the two reveals the target’s radial velocity. The computer creates a 2D range/velocity matrix of all returns, which puts approaching targets in cells with no stationary ground clutter. This is why airborne radars exhibit their best detection ranges against approaching targets. But if the target is being chased, its radial velocity will match some of the ground clutter, and it will be harder to detect.

For example, the Sukhoi Su-35’s Irbis-E radar in high-power, narrow-beam search can detect a 3-m2 (32-ft.2) target at 400 km (250 mi.) from the front but only 150 km from behind, and these ranges drop by half in normal search mode. The hardest airborne targets to see are those moving perpendicular to the radar, because their Doppler profile matches the ground directly below the aircraft. For ground-based radars, the same principles apply, but the antenna is stationary. Fleeing targets stand out as much as approaching aircraft. But ground-based radars are especially challenged in detecting targets moving perpendicularly, because their Doppler profile matches the stationary clutter all around. A tactic used by fighter pilots against ground radars, called “notching,” is to turn perpendicular to the radar, placing the aircraft in the “Doppler notch” in which the radar suffers significantly reduced range

Also, F35 can carry only 2JDAM and 2 AIM9 missiles which is too little to be called operational payload. SO, for any menaingful payload, F35 will be non-stealthy

This is also absolutely wrong
F-35 has different payload other than just 2 JDAM other possible payload such as 8 SDB II or 8 SPEAR + 2 Meteor. Or alternatively you can carry 12 CUDA or SACM-T, another possible choice is AARGM-ER

 

[BON PLAN]

This is what I am talking about:

It looks like the IAF will be robbed in broad daylight by promises of turning Rafale into a LO, which cannot be delivered.

It's where Spectra plays.

F35 has such huge bays that we can found this pic :

 

[StealthFlanker]

he huge jet flames and engine will never be covered even in F22/F35 or any plane ever built

Unless we talk about full AB, generally stealth aircraft hide and cool their nozzle pretty well, and the fact that F-135 is a high bypass engine also means the plume is shorter for the same thrust rating.

 

[asianobserve]

It's where Spectra plays.

So why do France and Germany need to spend Billions of dollars developing a new stealth fighter for their air forces if Spectra magically turns Rafale into a stealth aircraft?

Again, unlike you I'm not an aerospace engineer. I only have my common sense to lean on.

F35 has such huge bays that we can found this pic :
View attachment 29655
View attachment 29656

That's called Beast Mode configuration. Look it up.

 

[BON PLAN]

BTW Rafale RCS as peddled mostly is from frontal and not all aspect.. So you expect the enemy radars to always try and look from one angle only?

Further more, you talk of F4??? you are naive... F4 is still a concept,.
F3R is being implemented Indian Rafales are supposed to be of F3R standards.

So, F4 standard when ever it may be, would be time with 6th Gen will be flying, and you are talking how wonderful 4.5th Gen tech will be? Wonderful..

BTW Rafale RCS as peddled mostly is from frontal and not all aspect.. So you expect the enemy radars to always try and look from one angle only? => So is F35 my dear

Further more, you talk of F4??? you are naive... F4 is still a concept,. F4 to be lauched in 2019. Not in 10 years... And Rafale team always deliver on time, on spec, on budget.

So, F4 standard when ever it may be, would be time with 6th Gen will be flying, and you are talking how wonderful 4.5th Gen tech will be? Wonderful. => A 6th gen to be FOC in 2025 ? where? US just to be fortunate if F35 is fully FOC at those time.