Know Your 'Rafale'

[sukhish]

Credit : Pankaj.

After reading this article, I feel more relaxed. Even though I was a strong supporter of EF typhoon, but cold strategic calculations always play an important role. The mood swings of the US and EU nations is the primary factor which went against them. All these EU nations come under heavy US pressure. France Russia are still quite independent, also they are vary of china too. A good well balanced article. These things will come out slowly slowly. India will buy from US the back bone equipments, but not the core strategic elements.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Armand2REP]

Looks like Libya wants to buy them...

the Rafale should be equipped with air-air missile Meteor long range but it will not have the engine 9 tons, two requirements of the UAE. However, France appears to have undertaken to include the 63 Mirage 2000-9. The new Libyan army could acquire all or part of the fleet.

Abu Dhabi proche d'une d�cision pour le Rafale

 

[maomao]

I hope this shuts the inhouse Obi Wan Kenobi junior.



F-16, F-18 unbeatable, no F-35 offer for India: US - India News - IBNLive

Good one Hhahahahahahahahaha

 

[KS]

Looks like we have Jay's twin brother writing editorials at livemint.com. If Jay says its F-35, this genius says it should have been the F-22. Buhahaha

.......Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the country's national security leadership could have held a sustained dialogue and asked the Americans for the F-22 Raptor—a fifth-generation fighter. Whether the Americans gave us those planes or not, an effort should have been made to get them and the ball thrown in the US' court. ........


A simple matter of buying a fighter jet - Views - livemint.com
.

Awesome Editor indeed !

 

[Koovie]

it will take 10 years or so until the Rafale will be operationally inducted????!!!!!!!!!

 

[Armand2REP]

36 months, in ten years the contract will be over.

 

[arundo]

Looks like Libya wants to buy them...

superbe!

I am glad they have found a solution for the 63 mirage 2000, this was a huge issue. The MMRCA victory could have a "snowball effect" as the competitiveness of Rafale gets a boost and I believe that it this victory is quite helpful in this case. It seems that Qatar and Kuwait are just waiting what the UAE are doing before placing their order.
That could generate more or less 100 additional units for Dassault.

 

[arya]

well that good at last IAF will get something . but govt should not delay that thing .

 

[p2prada]

IAF has air superiority covered right from today to 2050. They even said the MKI is going to be upgraded to counter the J-20 which indicates the MKI will continue performing the air superiority role, so the IAF's main interest lies in strike capability.

We also know that the MRCA fighter is meant to replace strike fighters in IAF's inventory. So, we know the aircraft that IAF really wants is the Rafale. Maybe the F-16 and SH fit the role along with the F-35. But technical evaluations rejected the first two and the F-35 was not offered in the MRCA deal. So, the only remaining choice is the Rafale.

EF, Gripen and Mig-35 are primarily air superiority fighters. The choice is obvious.

Now we can say let's go for the F-35. But without a F-35 RFP there is no F-35 in the MRCA contention. So we can say let's just scuttle the MRCA deal and go for the F-35 through FMS. That will bring in other problems in the deal. Namely more delays and the complexity of ToT and offset negotiations. But these are the least of the problems. The biggest problem would be India's "face." Companies will lose faith on the IAF and MoD if the MRCA deal is scuttled so late in it's progress and after so much money has been spent by the competitors. The cost of bringing the aircraft to India and being part of the competition was made clear right at the beginning, everything is paid for by the companies and must be willing to face the losses if their fighter was rejected.

However it would be different if the MRCA deal is scuttled by the MoF on price issues. This would put everything back to square one and may force the IAF to negotiate with Dassault on a govt to govt basis and nobody here wants that to happen. The F-35 won't happen no matter how you look at it because the MRCA has already progressed by such a large extent.

France is reliable as long as a carrot is dangled in front of them. The biggest reasons on why they never sanctioned India was because of political decisions on part of France's relations with the US at the time and the possibility of bagging a massive deal with India for the sale of Mirage-2000s that was initiated by IAF just before the nuclear tests. IAF wanted something that complemented the MKIs and the LCA was not progressing much on that front.

The Rafale deal will happen. There is no longer any place in the IAF for the F-16, SH, Gripen, MiG-35 or the EF Typhoon. The bell has been rung.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rafale: engineering firms mobilized

The huge Dassault Aviation contract with India for should also involve the engineering firms which worked on the project. Assystem and Alten agreed to explain how.

It is not only Dassault Aviation, who rubs his hands. If implemented, the sale of 126 Rafale to India could also engage its engineering project partners. The French Assystem, for example, is a first place supplier for a long time at Dassault Aviation. A hundred engineers are constantly working in its design offices, on both fighters like the Rafale jets or civilians jets like the Falcon. With the French manufacturer, [Assystem] has participated in the development of the fighter-bomber aerostructures, with Safran on parts of the engine (air intakes for example) and with Sagem and Thales on on-board electronics systems. But Alain Besnier, Global Service Director of Assystem for the international and aerospace, no excitement. "There should be new developments on this aircraft unless India requests substantial changes" as it was the case with the UAE. "And that would delay the industrialization, while the buyer seems eager to equip itself."


Technology transfer

The majority of engineering work will therefore focus on technology transfer, even if we do not yet know precisely what proportion will be assembled and manufactured locally. Essential parts such as engines could not be built locally, as they are very complex to manufacture. [probably wrong]

The local partner will be HAL Group, the "indian EADS". Assystem should be given much of the management of the transfer of manufacturing processes, equipment, tooling, test systems and measurement and quality control. In its mission to support, says Alain Besnier, "the group will also select, qualify and monitor local suppliers." The group has about 3200 employees working in the aeronautic industry, a thousand in France, 400 in Britain and Germany. But it could also rely on its large Indian office, 180 people based in Bangalore.

Finally, "the last mission that could be given to engineering, not least, says Alain Besnier. This is the problem of offset." These systems of trade compensations, essential in contracts with countries like India, Brazil and the United Arab Emirates require the opening of temporary consulting firms working for several years.


Alten also speaks Hindi
French engineering firms anticipates an increase of their workload with the manufacturer if the huge Indian contract happen. In the Rafale program, Alten worked on weapons systems (firing algorithms for ammunition), on optronics equipment, on the man-machine interfaces in the cockpit, on the flow of wiring and structure calculations. The group took up a hundred engineers on the project and a dozen employees are still working in Dassault Aviation research departments.

"The structural components, like engines, should not change much, said Julien Gavaldon, Director of Air-defense, a service with 500 employees in Paris. For cons, weapons systems could be different of those equipping the French army. "Alten anticipates a good potential for development in ammunition, an area where the engineering firm works with the European missile maker MBDA, as well as radar and jamming systems, an area where they are working with the French Thales Airborne Systems.

The group relies on its strong presence in India, 700 engineers working on embedded electronics and on the formation of a portion of its workforce currently working in the car industry, hit by lower charges among French manufacturers. "If the contract comes to an end, it should boost our business in this sector for several years, "concludes Julien Gavaldon.

Google translated from:
http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article...ilises.N167957

 

[sathya]

The Rafale deal will happen. There is no longer any place in the IAF for the F-16, SH, Gripen, MiG-35 or the EF Typhoon. The bell has been rung.

why the drama, for next 80 aircrafts.. ?
i strongly believe next 80 will be rafale.. unless signed otherwise.
in rare chance can EFT be selected ? new logistics, maintenance will make it more expensive..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tu me rends fou, India, says world over Rafale deal

"We've been waiting for this day for 30 years," President Nicolas Sarkozy told journalists before breaking the "excellent news" from New Delhi to his waiting ministers. He is now widely expected to launch his re-election campaign on the back of New Delhi's decision to select the makers of France's Rafale jet for exclusive talks on a multi-billion-dollar arms deal.
The reaction in the French media has been more muted. "There is an element of quiet satisfaction – no one has gone to town, and no one's thumping their chests," Ambassador Rakesh Sood tells me. In Britain it fell upon none other than PM David Cameron to try and calm down hysterical MPs. They are angry beca*use, somehow, they have long assumed that New Delhi will select the Eurofighter Typhoon, in whose manufacture Britain has a major role.

"It's an awful kick in the teeth for the Indians to give this work to the French," Conservative MP Patrick Mercer said.

Pre*dictably, the French award has revived demands to cut the £280 million-a-year British aid to India. If India can afford to buy expensive aircraft, the argument runs, why doesn't it spend on poor? And if they have to have British aid, shouldn't they at least give us more business?

In Germany — another country involved in the making of the Eurofighter — the hope is that this isn't a done deal yet and that the talks with Rafale will fail. "Who's ever even heard of the Rafale jet fighter," asked an article in the online edition of Der Spiegel, a leading newsmaga*zine. And hadn't Chan*cellor Angela Merkel told PM Manmo*han Singh recently that India would become the Eurofighter's "fifth partner country" after Germany, Britain, Spain and Italy?

These reactions offer interest early case-studies for the emerging relationships between the new and old economic powerhouses in the 21st century.

It is just possible that India went for Rafale because it is cheaper — and there's something in the view held in Ame*rica that India settled for a plane rather than a relationship. But where tens of billions of dollars are at stake in a part of the world that could really do with some, relationships are bound to follow.

From:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-...e1-805942.aspx

 

[Kunal Biswas]

why the drama, for next 80 aircrafts.. ?
i strongly believe next 80 will be rafale.. unless signed otherwise.
in rare chance can EFT be selected ? new logistics, maintenance will make it more expensive..

There are good possibilities its INMRCA..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sore losers

Are international relations all about give and take?First, the US reminded India that it was expecting something in return for backing the civilian nuclear deal. It dearly wanted to clinch the IAF contract for the purchase of 126 combat jets and was bitter after losing to the Europeans.After the US, the defence ministry was abuzz with strong reactions from British MPs on India's preference for the French Rafale over the British Eurofighter.'They behaved like typical losers,' remarked a senior defence ministry official, clearly irritated by the development.

Home | Mail Online

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Thales Avionics Wins Big With Indian Selection of Rafale

Thales is a major player on the Rafale team. Thales reports that the company provides equipment and systems that account for approximately one third of the total value of each aircraft. The Rafale combat aircraft is equipped with the Thales RBE2 radar. Thales is currently working on an RBE2 active electronically scanned array (AESA) variant. One year ago, Thales announced that a production model RBE2 AESA radar had been validated on the Rafale aircraft. This announcement followed a three-month flight test program with an RBE2 AESA-equipped Rafale. During the test program, Dassault Aviation confirmed that all aspects of the radar's performance complied with the technical specifications of the French defense procurement agency (DGA).

The Spectra electronic warfare system for the Rafale provides identification, location, jamming, and decoying against an extensive range of electromagnetic, infra-red, and laser threats. Thales is the prime producer and integrator of Spectra; other companies provide the subsystems, such as missile warning systems and chaff/flare dispensers.

Thales also manufacturers the Damocles multi-function targeting pod. Damocles gives the Rafale day and night, all-weather, laser-guided weapon capabilities. According to Thales, Damocles' powerful laser and high resolution imagery provide the aircraft with a long stand-off range and tactical ground and air defense system survivability. Damocles is in service with French Air Force and Navy Rafale aircraft. Recent press releases have not disclosed if India will be purchasing targeting pods. India may equip a portion of its new fleet with Damocles pods.

Forecast International prepares market intelligence reports on Damocles, the RBE2 radar, and Spectra that are part of the Electronic Systems Service.

From:
defence.professionals | defpro.com

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India Should Ensure Arms Deals Are Not One Way Traffic

India expected to spend around $200bn-plus on defence over the next 10 years

With French Dassault Aviation's Rafale now qualifying for the final round of negotiations with the government for its 126 fighter aircraft, most expect the final $10.3 billion deal to be clinched in a few months from now. The final cost will be decided through tough negotiations and once a figure is arrived at, this will be sent to the Cabinet Committee on Security for clearance.

It is useful to examine the deal on six parameters. First, the need for a large acquisition. It is now amply clear that the gap between a fast depleting (it could go down to 22 odd squadrons by 2018-18) fleet and what is required is increasing by the day-while the sanctioned fleet is 39.5 squadrons, successive air chiefs have hinted the ideal strength to be somewhere close to 45 squadrons. If the obsolescent quotient of the Indian Air Force (IAF) fleet strength crosses even 50 per cent (ideally, a typical fleet ought to possess 30 per cent state-of-the-art, 40 per cent current generation and 30 per cent ageing fleet), the capability of the air force will be severely hit. One may cite enough reasons for numerical deficiencies, but the hard fact is that India needs about 180-200 fighters in the next 10 years, especially in the current generation category, in order to remain modern, robust and battle-worthy. The 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal with Dassault, thus, needs a prudent follow-on order by 2017 at the latest.

The cost is a complicated subjective issue. The total cost of the 126 MMRCA, including life-cycle costs, could be anywhere around $18-20 billion, which is staggering by any standard. This is where prudence would play a role. It is not a question of having the 'best' or 'reasonably good' product, but it depends on how the defence ministry recovers a good portion of value of money through offsets or real transfer of technology or even spin-offs from the programme. Given the recent experience of cost negotiations between the defence ministry and foreign vendors, including the one with Dassault on the mid-life upgrade of the Mirage fleet, it will be interesting to see how both sides negotiate. It is still early days for Dassault and further developments in the MMRCA contract will be closely watched. While Dassault will go all out to grab the deal, EADS also smells an opportunity, if cost negotiations with Dassault fail.

The IAF and the defence ministry/political leadership together deserve compliments for shaping the procurement process thus far and ensuring that such a gigantic acquisition follows procurement guidelines and does not falter on time delays. Two points are worth mentioning. First, the MMRCA has gone through the process, right from request for information and request for proposal through the rigorous process of technical/field evaluations to commercial bidding and contract negotiations in a span of less than five years. Ideally, a major procurement process takes about 36 to 52 months, as mandated by the defence procurement procedure and the MMRCA, if everything goes well, will take about 60 months-a remarkable feat from any account given the size, complexities and players involved. Second, the process has been fairly transparent. There were disappointments, even strong reactions from the results of technical and field evaluations, especially by the Americans. This is obvious. However, the defence ministry has been careful enough to explain the results to each of the vendors at appropriate stages of procurement.

The fourth parameter: political and strategic considerations. It is common knowledge that big arms deals are less about economics and technology and more about politics, and the MMRCA was not expected to be an exception. But two things suggest the deal is less about politics per se and more about a prudent blending of economics, technology and a bit of politics. First, as per the defence procurement procedure, which contains a clause "Political and Strategic Considerations" (Page 23, Para 73, DPP-2011), the MMRCA has actually followed a typical text-book method of all procedural arrangements by neither being a single vendor case nor a case where strategic or diplomatic dividends have been spelt out. Second, under such considerations, the winner may not necessarily be the lowest bidder, whereas Rafale has been selected purely on the basis of being the lowest bidder. The MMRCA, it appears at least on the surface, has blended political prudence without compromising the qualitative needs of the IAF.

Despite tall claims made by the defence ministry on the fifth parameter-offsets-the details are sketchy. The ministry claims it has managed to sign offsets contracts worth as much as $2.1 billion and another $8.5 billion are at various stages of negotiations [???] but not too many details are available. When the offsets are signed with Dassault, hopefully the ministry will come out with more details that can be examined by analysts to gauge the degree of benefits that the industry is likely to get.

Last but not the least, the future. While India will spend around $200 billion-plus in the next 10 years, future contracts like the MMRCA should pave the way for opportunities for Indian firms to upgrade their design, development, production and innovation capabilities. Much would depend on how vendors like Dassault are lured to help the Indians and in the process help themselves. India must ensure that arms deals are not a one-way traffic for suppliers.

Full article:
defence.professionals | defpro.com

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[sathya]

Probable winning ranks for next 80..

1.RAFALE ( no doubt )
2.?GRIPEN (low cost, low maintenance)
3.MIG35 ( can make use of mig 29 infrastructure)
4.EFT( political pressure, good aircraft, expensive though)
5.USA ( not likely )

 

[sathya]

is there anyway to pacify the Europeans with deals other than MMRCA ?

like refueller, artillery, passenger aircrafts like we ordered around 15 billion $ from USA

btw when will India announce RFP for the next 80.. current deal itself will take 1 year..