@Zebra be happy and smile; you are always right. What you are interpreting 'Re-attack' is actually 'Re-targetting'(re-designating a target) which pilots can do upto certain range. I dont what is this range in case of RBS-15 mk3 but in case of Harpoon (US), it is within 5 miles from the target.
Know Your 'Rafale'
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ECCM present in missiles to evade from aircraft countermeasure
I think Astra too have ECCM suite
PaliwalWarrior
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Yes you are wrong in many ways things and it has been proven time and again here also and also on another forum where you are a mod
smestarz
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Just a news, no need to be excited, ts not something that most people here dont know (except the French of course)
http://quwa.org/2016/05/22/indias-rafale-deal-stalls/
May 22, 2016 Bilal Khan -
India’s Rafale deal stalls again
Last month, it had seemed that India was on track to inking its long-awaited purchase of 36 Dassault Rafale multi-role fighters from France. At the time, the two sides had finally agreed upon a firm price, which was the main sticking point. In May, the Indian Ministry of Law and Justice began keeping a close eye on the Rafale deal, so as to avoid the prospect of corruption (as had occurred in a previous deal with the European helicopter manufacturer AgustaWestland). It is not clear where matters stand today.
Comment and Analysis
This off-the-shelf purchase of 36 fighters came in the ashes of the much-touted – but ill-fated – Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program. Under the MMRCA, the Indian Air Force (IAF) was to buy 126 new medium-weight multi-role fighters alongside the rights and capacity to produce the type in India.
High costs eventually pushed the Indian Ministry of Defence to pursue a much smaller purchase, and that too without the MMRCA’s technology transfer aspect. However, it seems not all of the Indian government is comfortable with the prospect of paying $9 billion U.S. for two fighter squadrons.
While one may feel the urge to chastise India over the issue, $9 billion is no small sum, and it is not as if India is short on options (which could greatly benefit from that funding). This is not to take away from the Rafale, which would certainly fit within India’s defence doctrine, but it seems the IAF will have to review its current perspective of the Rafale. It seems elements of the Indian government are asking the important question, “are the added costs worth the gains?”
A very valuable aspect of the Rafale deal was the offset clause; India’s private defence sector was to receive investment from France’s leading defence vendors, namely Thales Group and Safran Group. The entrance of these players would have helped the Indian defence industry in the area of avionics and propulsion development, respectively.
At the other end, one may think the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is feeling some sense of ease about the Rafale deal. This is not entirely true. While the Rafale would have infused the IAF with exceedingly solid air warfare capabilities, it would not have altered the fundamental disparity between the IAF and PAF. For one thing, the PAF has to still deal with the challenge presented by the IAF’s large fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI Flankers; in time, those MKIs will also be upgraded, effectively to a standard comparable to the Su-35. Of course, averting added pressure does help.
http://quwa.org/2016/05/22/indias-rafale-deal-stalls/
May 22, 2016 Bilal Khan -
India’s Rafale deal stalls again
Last month, it had seemed that India was on track to inking its long-awaited purchase of 36 Dassault Rafale multi-role fighters from France. At the time, the two sides had finally agreed upon a firm price, which was the main sticking point. In May, the Indian Ministry of Law and Justice began keeping a close eye on the Rafale deal, so as to avoid the prospect of corruption (as had occurred in a previous deal with the European helicopter manufacturer AgustaWestland). It is not clear where matters stand today.
Comment and Analysis
This off-the-shelf purchase of 36 fighters came in the ashes of the much-touted – but ill-fated – Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program. Under the MMRCA, the Indian Air Force (IAF) was to buy 126 new medium-weight multi-role fighters alongside the rights and capacity to produce the type in India.
High costs eventually pushed the Indian Ministry of Defence to pursue a much smaller purchase, and that too without the MMRCA’s technology transfer aspect. However, it seems not all of the Indian government is comfortable with the prospect of paying $9 billion U.S. for two fighter squadrons.
While one may feel the urge to chastise India over the issue, $9 billion is no small sum, and it is not as if India is short on options (which could greatly benefit from that funding). This is not to take away from the Rafale, which would certainly fit within India’s defence doctrine, but it seems the IAF will have to review its current perspective of the Rafale. It seems elements of the Indian government are asking the important question, “are the added costs worth the gains?”
A very valuable aspect of the Rafale deal was the offset clause; India’s private defence sector was to receive investment from France’s leading defence vendors, namely Thales Group and Safran Group. The entrance of these players would have helped the Indian defence industry in the area of avionics and propulsion development, respectively.
At the other end, one may think the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is feeling some sense of ease about the Rafale deal. This is not entirely true. While the Rafale would have infused the IAF with exceedingly solid air warfare capabilities, it would not have altered the fundamental disparity between the IAF and PAF. For one thing, the PAF has to still deal with the challenge presented by the IAF’s large fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI Flankers; in time, those MKIs will also be upgraded, effectively to a standard comparable to the Su-35. Of course, averting added pressure does help.
Tactical Frog
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Dassault , France have been negotiating for years now. Weeks, months , do not matter any more. Trappier just said to Reuters that the ball was on Indian side now. The output of Rafale at Merignac facility is now at 2 per month, more than enough for Dassault ' needs.
It is sad to say but if all these years were just for nothing, in the end it is Indian airforce that will suffer, not Dassault. But my personal assesment has not changed for quite some months : this deal will go through because PM Modi has put some of his personal credibility into it.
As a side note , Parrikar ruled out WASS torpedoes for Scorpene class ... Indian Navy will need the French F21 heavy torpedo badly. Probably a good time to get it with a discount, in a global package with Rafale.
It is sad to say but if all these years were just for nothing, in the end it is Indian airforce that will suffer, not Dassault. But my personal assesment has not changed for quite some months : this deal will go through because PM Modi has put some of his personal credibility into it.
As a side note , Parrikar ruled out WASS torpedoes for Scorpene class ... Indian Navy will need the French F21 heavy torpedo badly. Probably a good time to get it with a discount, in a global package with Rafale.
Really? IAF has many more options, but Dassault has few. It is a question of survival for the beleaguered company.
Tactical Frog
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Nope. Qatar and Egypt orders have secured Dassault ' s line of production for some time. Not a question of survival anymore to sell Rafale to India.
We have strong confidence that UAE will relay Qatar and Egypt with a big 60 jets order. I say this based on our strategic partnership with this country, not based on faith .
French Armee de l'Air still waits for some 40 jets too.
About IAF other options, they are all awful if you ask me ... especially the American ones. The Americans only try to drag you completely in their sphere of influence... something France is not trying, since we don't have one
Gripen is a nice plane but it will kill your Tejas if introduced in IAF . Russian birds like Su 35 won't add much capabilities compared with your existing MKI.
Rafale and Mirage 2000 fit well in your inventory alongside Sukhoi MKI. They share Mica missiles for air to air missions. . Probably Dassault will integrate AASM missiles for Mirage 2000 at some point. So there is a lot of logic to complement Mirage 2000 with Rafale.
WolfPack86
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Rafale deal
Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to France in April, 2015, had announced that India will buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from Paris in a flyaway condition in a government-to-government deal. France is offering the Rafale jets at almost the same price its air force is buying it from the original manufacturer Dassault Aviation. It, however, has rejected Indian negotiators’ demand for a 50% offset clause citing sharp cost escalation but offered to participate in ‘Make in India’ projects to carry forward the talks.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/topics/rafale-deal/story-eKJuE6Eotwk8mDkkjwn0qO.html
Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to France in April, 2015, had announced that India will buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from Paris in a flyaway condition in a government-to-government deal. France is offering the Rafale jets at almost the same price its air force is buying it from the original manufacturer Dassault Aviation. It, however, has rejected Indian negotiators’ demand for a 50% offset clause citing sharp cost escalation but offered to participate in ‘Make in India’ projects to carry forward the talks.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/topics/rafale-deal/story-eKJuE6Eotwk8mDkkjwn0qO.html
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Dassault has 7 to 8 years of shedule on Rafale ahead. Absolutely no hurry (It was not the case at the early beginning of 2015)
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Old.... too old. ..
smestarz
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Like some of the Rafale fanboys said with positivity that Hawk deal was discussed for more time than this, As you say that the Dassault production line is full so there is no worry for Dassault, India has its own plane coming to FOC so there is no real concern here either.
I do not understand why are the french worried so much about Indian air force? You do not seem to be worried about Indian army .. oh yes, no chance for French equipment there.
Indian air force is a professional air force, presently there is lack of numbers but its not as serious like you believe. There are short of numbers, but the capability of the planes more than makes up for the numbers.
PM Modi had put initiative, but is he talking anything about it now? If it was like you said, the deal should have been signed by Jan 25 like most expected, but since its not signed it means that Modi will not interefere in the discussions or how its being carried/ There is a defence minister and Modi will not interfere in the job of others. And with all the nice things coming about AW Scams., Modi will ensure that he will in no way now come close to interference. So the faster you get over the idea that Modi will push the deal ahead the better you will sleep.
I do not understand why are the french worried so much about Indian air force? You do not seem to be worried about Indian army .. oh yes, no chance for French equipment there.
Indian air force is a professional air force, presently there is lack of numbers but its not as serious like you believe. There are short of numbers, but the capability of the planes more than makes up for the numbers.
PM Modi had put initiative, but is he talking anything about it now? If it was like you said, the deal should have been signed by Jan 25 like most expected, but since its not signed it means that Modi will not interefere in the discussions or how its being carried/ There is a defence minister and Modi will not interfere in the job of others. And with all the nice things coming about AW Scams., Modi will ensure that he will in no way now come close to interference. So the faster you get over the idea that Modi will push the deal ahead the better you will sleep.
smestarz
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True, mere order of 48 planes is not really going to help the investment of R&D done for Rafale They need more than 150 planes to sort get the Rafale project as Success. Considering the orderbook and how the rafale fan boys love to compare with F-35.. F-35 has bigger orderbook than Rafale
smestarz
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I think if you get over the notion that only France is India's friend and france is interested in Indias welfare. France is just interested in its own welfare and business that can fatten its pockets. I mean if 48 Rafales can bring Dassault joy and that they dont need orders then its good, I mean you should convey that to French negotiatiors and call them back, have they not got enough signals already? Or maybe they are too dumb or shameless to see them?
Anyway its business. Anyway when you give such a statment, what you are trying to do is fool yourself, Rafale has been inducted almmost 16 years ago (18th May 2001) and what has it produced? 200 planes? And France is pushing the 4th Gen tech as 5th gen and spects it to be producing till 2040.. so what orders are there? i mean that would be 40 years and max 300 planes???
Let the orders come and let the orders be paid and then its best to talk, had the French not talked of 126 + 63 options to start with for India and then another 42 for indian navy etc, and where are we? 36 planes and that is not even sure. If you look at the poltical sense of it, possibly that Egypt and Qatar moved to try and block India from Rafales maybe they were given intelligence that India will buy Rafale , after all for both the financer seems to be Saudi.
Gripen is not the choice as I understamd, F/A-18 E/F has a better chance than others, of course there is Su-35 which brings a lot more than the French can offer. The russian birds like Su-35 offer much more than what present Su-30 MKI offer, and the present Su-30 MKI is more than capable to hump Rafale as it stands, so why exactly should India be going for a less capable, expensive and shorter ranged Rafale when there are cheaper and better options? The only thing that goes in favour of rafale is that its French, in all other areas, Rafale is not closer to Su-35 or Su-30 MKI and that is why when Rafale is compared to Su-30 MKI you talk of different weight class, but when comparing Rafale with Tejas, you do not have such distinction between them, That does shows how hippocritic you lot are.
We have MICA yes, but we have lot more Russian missiles, and w are buying more Israeli missiles which do not suit Rafale or Mirage 2000. Any plane can fit well with Su-30 MKI next to it. You do give a pathetic excuse of your logic to buy 36 planes of 4th gen tech just because we have 48 planes of older 3rd gen tech, very laughable.
Anyway its business. Anyway when you give such a statment, what you are trying to do is fool yourself, Rafale has been inducted almmost 16 years ago (18th May 2001) and what has it produced? 200 planes? And France is pushing the 4th Gen tech as 5th gen and spects it to be producing till 2040.. so what orders are there? i mean that would be 40 years and max 300 planes???
Let the orders come and let the orders be paid and then its best to talk, had the French not talked of 126 + 63 options to start with for India and then another 42 for indian navy etc, and where are we? 36 planes and that is not even sure. If you look at the poltical sense of it, possibly that Egypt and Qatar moved to try and block India from Rafales maybe they were given intelligence that India will buy Rafale , after all for both the financer seems to be Saudi.
Gripen is not the choice as I understamd, F/A-18 E/F has a better chance than others, of course there is Su-35 which brings a lot more than the French can offer. The russian birds like Su-35 offer much more than what present Su-30 MKI offer, and the present Su-30 MKI is more than capable to hump Rafale as it stands, so why exactly should India be going for a less capable, expensive and shorter ranged Rafale when there are cheaper and better options? The only thing that goes in favour of rafale is that its French, in all other areas, Rafale is not closer to Su-35 or Su-30 MKI and that is why when Rafale is compared to Su-30 MKI you talk of different weight class, but when comparing Rafale with Tejas, you do not have such distinction between them, That does shows how hippocritic you lot are.
We have MICA yes, but we have lot more Russian missiles, and w are buying more Israeli missiles which do not suit Rafale or Mirage 2000. Any plane can fit well with Su-30 MKI next to it. You do give a pathetic excuse of your logic to buy 36 planes of 4th gen tech just because we have 48 planes of older 3rd gen tech, very laughable.
Nope. Qatar and Egypt orders have secured Dassault ' s line of production for some time. Not a question of survival anymore to sell Rafale to India.
We have strong confidence that UAE will relay Qatar and Egypt with a big 60 jets order. I say this based on our strategic partnership with this country, not based on faith .
French Armee de l'Air still waits for some 40 jets too.
About IAF other options, they are all awful if you ask me ... especially the American ones. The Americans only try to drag you completely in their sphere of influence... something France is not trying, since we don't have one
Gripen is a nice plane but it will kill your Tejas if introduced in IAF . Russian birds like Su 35 won't add much capabilities compared with your existing MKI.
Rafale and Mirage 2000 fit well in your inventory alongside Sukhoi MKI. They share Mica missiles for air to air missions. . Probably Dassault will integrate AASM missiles for Mirage 2000 at some point. So there is a lot of logic to complement Mirage 2000 with Rafale.
smestarz
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Good, get your negotiators back, that helps
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It's like to compare Aston Martin orderbook and Ford one.
Dassault made tailor made products. LM made Ford T ones.
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I think they already are back, or with another customer.
I think Rafale team has put on the table their last and definitive offer some weeks or months ago.
As Dassault ceo said : "all is on the indian table".
Tactical Frog
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Why pathetic ? Mirage 2000 and Rafale have good commonality regarding weapons. And I am not sure that anyone wants to laugh at this idea given the money IAF invested in Mirage 2000 upgrade.
Tactical Frog
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You are so wrong it is getting embarrassing for you ... we have plenty to offer for the Indian Army if it is interested . Just a few days ago Thales got a contract for thermal imagery cameras to be installed on your tanks !
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/indi...ovide-catherine-thermal-imaging-cameras-india
smestarz
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LOL, stop which one is Aston Martin here? At least give a better analogy, In terms of technology F-35 trumps Rafale. Try not to give examples just for the heck of it.
So. F-35 technologically more advanced, and bigger orderbook. I mean a huge order book and it has already got the Dassault scared yellow.
Also by the way, I do not think either Aston Marin or Ford, compare their car to each other same as Rafale fanboys are doing, and there lies the big difference,
It is known fact that a lo-tech compares their products to hi-tech, to try and show that they are competitive very much what Dassault, AdlA and Rafale fanboys are doing, You already realised that F-35 is technologically much better than Rafale and feel threatened by the possible future sales of it. I do not see F-35 fan boys comparing their jets with likes of Rafale, They dont want to compare with junk
So. F-35 technologically more advanced, and bigger orderbook. I mean a huge order book and it has already got the Dassault scared yellow.
Also by the way, I do not think either Aston Marin or Ford, compare their car to each other same as Rafale fanboys are doing, and there lies the big difference,
It is known fact that a lo-tech compares their products to hi-tech, to try and show that they are competitive very much what Dassault, AdlA and Rafale fanboys are doing, You already realised that F-35 is technologically much better than Rafale and feel threatened by the possible future sales of it. I do not see F-35 fan boys comparing their jets with likes of Rafale, They dont want to compare with junk
smestarz
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You did notice? Thermal imagers for Tanks and not TANKS, Are we buying any Tanks, or APCs or FICV from France? NO SIR..Guess not really good enough for us.
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