Know Your 'Rafale'

[garg_bharat]

Poland is jinxed. USSR broke up due to poland. It is EU's turn now.

UK is certain to leave EU. Germany is next. Poland has a chance to become the indisputable leader of EU.

 

[Immanuel]

The same F-35 that requires 10 times more downtime than the A-10 after every mission and 5 times as much as every F-16? The F-35 project is going to collapse on itself in the most epic way within 15 years.

Why not post some sources for your claims? Also why do you compare the down time of an aircraft still in testing, it's over 3 years from FOC.

 

[BON PLAN]

It was sarcasm. You took it literally.

My answer was also sarcastic

 

[BON PLAN]

See today French foreign policy is sabotaged by Poland, tomorrow it will be Ukraine. The structure of EU is such that a small country can veto a much bigger country. EU politics is a bigger minefield compared to US politics.

We Indians have more influence in Washington than we have in Brussels.

If EU was not there, then there was a perfect reason to buy French as any commitment of French government could be trusted.

French can do what they want in weapons sales. EU has nothing to do or to say.
The Mistral decision was taken without any pressure, but with in mind what happens in 1939 (we leave Hitler done what he wanted without reaction). It's a politic decision.

 

[BON PLAN]

$7 biilion is still not a small amount, remember! It would be fine if we could get double no. of Rafales in that price.

Yes.... with 1 or 2 scorpene as a gift ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Don't forget you only got the Jet engine by stealing from the Germans

Yes, but not only (We stole for some hours a civilian russian jet engine and examine it under all aspect to increase our knowledge, in the 50')

But it was the case for USA, GB, USSR .... for engine, swept wings, rocket, GtoA and AtoA missile....

 

[Immanuel]

I'am afraid they want to make too much compromises (VSTOL, CTOL, stealth, internal bay, eos....), so at the end it will be average in all aspect. At best.
The idea was good. But maybe too hard to reach.
I'm convinced, and forget I'm french and a proud supporter of the Rafale, that the customers of the F35 will be disappointed.

All revolutionary developments are full of challenges, the aircraft is at least 4 years from FOC. many of the challenges rise from the way the plan was implemented, but no one can really match let alone compare to the scale of this program. Your foresight is misguided to say the least, the customers including the Dutch who are test flying it are happy with it and the aircraft is not even close to FOC.

 

[BON PLAN]

No chance, for that money (actually probably much less,,) we can get F-35A.
For Poland, Interoperability and networkability with a hugh fleet of F-35's is more important than Basic Flight Manouvers against a few Su-35's

"460,000 deportees"
I used an old estimate, maybe they have corrected it now..

F35 bought with EU funds.... as F16 ? we really are mad.

 

[BON PLAN]

Poland is jinxed. USSR broke up due to poland. It is EU's turn now.

UK is certain to leave EU. Germany is next. Poland has a chance to become the indisputable leader of EU.

UK, I expect so, because they are more american than european, for Germany you're wrong. EU is made by and for germany !

 

[garg_bharat]

Let me tell you one thing about Rafale, that is the sky high availability figure and "low" operating expense are both likely false.

Let us wait for another user like Egypt or UAE report numbers.

IAF is not so good in maintaining stuff. Even Rafale will wait for spares after couple of years of honeymoon.

Su30 faces problem as HAL Koraput is useless which is given engine assembly.

HAL assembled engines have had persistent issues.

 

[garg_bharat]

UK, I expect so, because they are more american than european, for Germany you're wrong. EU is made by and for germany !

I think you are wrong.

Germans will rise up faster than you think. Free money does not last long if history is any guide.

 

[BON PLAN]

Defence Aviation Post Your connect to the world of Defence and Aviation

Want to close the Rafale deal as early as possible: Parrikar
March 26, 2016 Filed under Defence, Equipment, Must See, Stories Of The Day, Top News, Weapon Systems, Window to MoD Posted by Anupama Airy
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India wants to close the multi-billion dollar deal for 36 Rafale fighter jets from Dassault Aviation as early as possible, defence minister Manohar Parrikar told DefenceAviationPost.com.

“I don’t fix timelines but I am definitely interested in finishing it as early as possible,” Parrikar said on crucial deal that will significantly improve the operational capabilities of the Indian Air Force.

Parrikar, however, said that price was an important issue. “Price is equally important. While I want the aircraft I will definitely be interested in the right price,” he said. The minister said the law ministry’s objections were being “attended to”.

The deal, sources said, is expected to be clinched at about Rs 60,000 crore. India and France had signed a Memorandum of Understanding over the purchase of 36 Rafale jets during the visit of French President Francois Hollande to India in January this year. The deliveries of the nuclear-capable multi-role Rafale jets are likely to begin in 2019. “The discussions are in the final phase of price negotiations,” said an official.

The defence ministry under Parrikar has proved to be a tough negotiator bringing the cost by a significant margin.

Parrikar had earlier said he was a “tough negotiator” and wanted the “best price” for Rafale fighter jets from France. “I am a tough negotiator. Let me save money for the nation,” Parrikar had been quoted as saying.

At least 15 per cent of the total payment will have to be made immediately, if and when the deal is signed.

 

[wegweg]

"Word socialist and and Nazi are not to be used in the same sentence."
Nazi = National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus)

These are excuses for NATO expansion. Russia is nowhere in front of NATO.

You are digging up history, from a time when empire building was in fashion.

Today's Poland has no reason to be scared of Russia.

I don't know where you get your news. 20000 Russian speaking people are dead in Ukraine and another 10000 are missing. The American kill Russian campaign is full on in Ukraine.

Kalingrad is is a part of Poland and Prussia that the Russians colonised in 1945. It is used as a nuclear launch point against Poland and Nato. Russia last year ran a large military excercise with nuclear missiles in Kalingrad.
In 2009 they ran an exercise based on a Nuclear attack on Warsaw by 'Terrorists' which required an invasion of Poland by Russia. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ussia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html

The most important part is, until 1991 Russian armed forces occupied Poland, peopel here have seen with their own eyes what that means and know they will fight to prvent the Russian Nazi's returning.

No amount of propaganda can over come the reality of living through Russian occupation. Please feel free to tell Poles what they think from thousands of KM away from a place and time you have never been.

 

[wegweg]

F35 bought with EU funds.... as F16 ? we really are mad.

Maybe mainly British, German and Dutch funds, France doesn't contribute much.

But thats the EU for you, you can always leave.

The F-35 contains a lot of UK content, so they won't complain.

 

[garg_bharat]

@wegweg, thanks for educating us on Nazi.

You have not understood the basic point that ussr was not russia. Poland has every right to defend itself and stay independent.
But it remains questionable if every European state has to take polish diktat.

So you think Poland will try to reclaim Kaliningrad.

See USSR history is full of pain. I doubt today's Russians want to relive it.

Russia realizes fully well that it cannot compete with NATO.

 

[Bahamut]

"Word socialist and and Nazi are not to be used in the same sentence."
Nazi = National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus)



Kalingrad is is a part of Poland and Prussia that the Russians colonised in 1945. It is used as a nuclear launch point against Poland and Nato. Russia last year ran a large military excercise with nuclear missiles in Kalingrad.
In 2009 they ran an exercise based on a Nuclear attack on Warsaw by 'Terrorists' which required an invasion of Poland by Russia. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ussia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html

The most important part is, until 1991 Russian armed forces occupied Poland, peopel here have seen with their own eyes what that means and know they will fight to prvent the Russian Nazi's returning.

No amount of propaganda can over come the reality of living through Russian occupation. Please feel free to tell Poles what they think from thousands of KM away from a place and time you have never been.

National Socialism is not the same as socialism as Karl Max.Socalism is society were government control the economy and it is classless.The nation socialism is were government helps private individuals in exchange for better working condition. Kalingrad was transferred legal from Germany to Soviet Union,the same way Alaska was transferred between USA and Russian empire.Its old name is Konigsberg and is historic city if Prussia and Germany ,not Poland.Read history.

 

[Bahamut]

In 2009 they ran an exercise based on a Nuclear attack on Warsaw by 'Terrorists' which required an invasion of Poland by Russia.

NATO does the same for Russia and China.We do the for Pak and they do the same for us.

 

[BON PLAN]

Maybe mainly British, German and Dutch funds, France doesn't contribute much.

But thats the EU for you, you can always leave.

The F-35 contains a lot of UK content, so they won't complain.

France is the second contributor of EU funds, after germany.

 

[wegweg]

NATO does the same for Russia and China.We do the for Pak and they do the same for us.

Nato doesn't run exercises based on invading Russia or China, invading either is basically impossible and against Nato's policy. Could you provide sources of the exercises that India and Pak run where they practice a nuclear attack and invasion of each others capital cities?

 

[smestarz]

French can do what they want in weapons sales. EU has nothing to do or to say.
The Mistral decision was taken without any pressure, but with in mind what happens in 1939 (we leave Hitler done what he wanted without reaction). It's a politic decision.

French can do what they want in weapons sales. EU has nothing to do or to say. The Mistral decision was taken without any pressure ... actually after the UKRAINE crisis, and just till a week prior to cancelling the deal the french president Hollande was confident of delivering the Two Mistrals to Russia, you can check the news yourself.
So, we have Ukraine crisis.. President Hollande says the two ships will be delivered as contracted.
We have countries like Poland banning russian products... President Hollande says the two ships will be delivered as contracted. .
Then one fine morning, He decides to cancel the deal...

In one psot, you more or less say that Hollande cancelled the deal because countries like Poland. Latvia etc feel Threatened by Russia and so France in order to protect these small countries of Europe, France cancelled the deal, and now you are saying that it was done without any pressure??? France is really too complicated to deal with.. I guess Russia and India both agree.