Know Your 'Rafale'

[Superdefender]

Actually, there are nothing like allies of US. NATO is an opera, operated by Uncle SAM. Non-NATO countries (including Pak) are puppets, controlled by Uncle SAM.

 

[Superdefender]

Actually, there are nothing like allies of US. NATO is an opera, operated by Uncle SAM. Non-NATO countries (including Pak) are puppets, controlled by Uncle SAM.

 

[BON PLAN]

Again, you need to chill, no one is forcing India to sign the CISMOA, BECA, these are also being re-written. like we ordered other aicraft and helos without CISMOA, we can order these too. We can then swap out the IFFs, Comms, Data links etc with local ones. Quit you're whining. As for the TOT, there will be enough, just as much as the Rafale, so no need to bitch here either. Regardless of what you think, Boeing has already made a proposal and they will be making strong pitch and if the French fries don't play ball on the price, Rafale deal is down the gutter. Then the SH has a very good chance.

More so, TOT is highly over-rated, it adds no value. We have our own programs for Uttam AESA on LCA. AMCA engine could be jointly dveloped with the US, possibly a version of the F-136.

.

 

[BON PLAN]

He's dreaming, there are a lot of parts on the Rafale made in the US, including parts of the Spectra itself that were developed at Thales North America.

Prove it !
Rafale is ITAR free. that's enough.

 

[BON PLAN]

LOL, and I certify that India will not be buying Rafales .. happy?

LOL. Your incantation will not serve to close the bargaining..... Just wait.
The issue will be :
GO and you can be sure it will be your party,
or
NO, and it will be mine.
Wait Bro.

 

[BON PLAN]

For Tejas we had brought in Dassault for their advices.. and they were useless. For GTRE we brought in SNECMA, they took the money and did not contribute anything.. can we really call this country "reliable"

Dassault help HAl in the design of Tejas. Just look the wonderfull plane it is (it's your opinion).

If you gave money to SNECMA without any work done, your are idiots. Just go to international court. Why not?

 

[BON PLAN]

For Rafale lovers....

[http://en.terra.com/news/news/uae_says_rafale_proposal_unworkable/act430073]

This is a very old news.... 2011 or 2012. since Eurofighter was smashed and UAE is again regarding Rafale.

 

[Panjab47]

Simple fact: If you want to bomb Pak you need NOn-Nato ie Russian Plane
If you want to bomb China: U need Swadeshi Plane

The weapons should meet your objectives.

We want to eventually deal revenge vs UK so you can't use french planes, ultimately.

 

[BON PLAN]

Simple fact: If you want to bomb Pak you need NOn-Nato ie Russian Plane
If you want to bomb China: U need Swadeshi Plane

The weapons should meet your objectives.

We want to eventually deal revenge vs UK so you can't use french planes, ultimately.

??? what are you saying Bro ?

 

[Tactical Frog]

Actually, there are nothing like allies of US. NATO is an opera, operated by Uncle SAM. Non-NATO countries (including Pak) are puppets, controlled by Uncle SAM.

I am starting having double vision now ... @Superdefender stop voodooing us !

 

[Tactical Frog]

What is the weird sound at the end of this video ??
@BON PLAN

 

[smestarz]

When we say allies it could be Pakistan, Saudi Arab, Bahrain and not to forget, Turkey.

We are not really going to go to war with Saudi as of now, I mean for that we really need to have power projection vessel and landing docks in our naval units. We cannot carry out amphibious naval operation like those of WW2, but maybe smaller tactical maneuvers against Pakistan. So Indian buying US products is directed more towards Pakistan.

And who is USA to see us as a fulcrum?`India is a sovereign state and India will do whatever suits its interest best. USA should first expel Turkey from NATO which is giving all the tech to Pakis.

USA is already seeing India that way. We are a strong Naval power and we control the western side of Mallacas which is lifeline for China for their business with Asia, Middle East and europe. and of course we are the resident Indian ocean super power.

With the specification of Kaveri, even Snecma cannot develop it. Secondly the turbine core technology is so well protected that no country will transfer it , like cryogenic one.

Eventually we shall get it, but the very crux of getting SNECMA as consultant was to help us develop it, if they could/cannot do that, what is the point for them to accept the position of consultants? I think the French were trying to keep us well humoured to ensure that we sign the then MMRCA deal for 126 planes, and then India would be forgeting about Kaveri and Tejas.. But that did not work at all.

and why should India manufacture F/A18? And under what norm the US is willing to build the plant for F/A-18 production? Has one one disclosed it?

Boeing does not have much active sales, LM on other hand is full. Boeing is much with sales of P-8, AH-64 and the likes but how many are buying its F/A-18 as of now?
With F-35 slotted to be the replacement, F/A-18 is being overlooked. Thus in a way, if the line in USA is not going to churn anything new, it might be better if they do something about it and make money out of it.
Boeing is expecting as many that F-35 will be underperforming or further delays and hence possibility of orders of F/A-18 and so it is keeping the lines open.
The development cost of SH is already recovered, and thus it makes great business sense to move the line to India and make further money, specially if there is order from indian navy

 

[smestarz]

For Rafale lovers....

[http://en.terra.com/news/news/uae_says_rafale_proposal_unworkable/act430073]

IF UAE is saying that the commercial and bid and conditions are not good, then one has to wonder why the Egypt and Qatar signed for Rafale? Maybe some support in UN?

 

[smestarz]

For Rafale lovers....

[http://en.terra.com/news/news/uae_says_rafale_proposal_unworkable/act430073]

A government source close to the deal blamed the current impasse on the "arrogance" of Dassault, despite French military officials saying they were confident about securing a deal and hopes of finalizing the sale at the Dubai Air Show.

"There is a shared frustration in both the UAE and French leaderships at the apparent arrogance of Dassault," the source said.

"Rather than using the strength of the bilateral relationship to close the deal out they are attempting to use it to hold out on pricing and a deal structure that hasn't changed in more than a year and that has been significantly bettered by all competitors."
Same in india

 

[garg_bharat]

Dassault help HAl in the design of Tejas. Just look the wonderfull plane it is (it's your opinion).

If you gave money to SNECMA without any work done, your are idiots. Just go to international court. Why not?

You guys love courts. We do not.
We do not have time.

You need to get it that international cooperation in defence depends on sincerity.

The French it seems have developed a sense of entitlement in the Indian defence market.

 

[smestarz]

Dassault help HAl in the design of Tejas. Just look the wonderfull plane it is (it's your opinion).

If you gave money to SNECMA without any work done, your are idiots. Just go to international court. Why not?

Dassault was consulted, they took the money, no real inputs, After all Dassault is not stupid, Once HAL starts to make Tejas, who the hell will need French junk? Even Mirage 2000 in its upgraded form is less than 25% as capable as Tejas.. 1 Tejas = 4 Mirage 2000 . Which country in their right mind will then import French plane?

The term used is consultants, and desperate countries do many things, like how India had to keep quiet for 6 years delay on SCORPENE.. And all those incidents with France is enough to tell the new Govt that France is not a reliable country not even close to being one.

So rather than doing things the hard way, the things are being done the easy way, work closely with countries with proven reliability.. ISRAEL for one. Russia also is reliable but one needs to know how to work with them. USA has supplied as promised and without having to sign any CISMOA. LSA etc.. So it all works for us..

 

[pmaitra]

Anybody not interested in a serious discussion, please exit the thread.

 

[smestarz]

Dassault help HAl in the design of Tejas. Just look the wonderfull plane it is (it's your opinion).

If you gave money to SNECMA without any work done, your are idiots. Just go to international court. Why not?

Dassault was consulted, they took the money, no real inputs, After all Dassault is not stupid, Once HAL starts to make Tejas, who the hell will need French junk? Even Mirage 2000 in its upgraded form is less than 25% as capable as Tejas.. 1 Tejas = 4 Mirage 2000 . Which country in their right mind will then import French plane?

The term used is consultants, and desperate countries do many things, like how India had to keep quiet for 6 years delay on SCORPENE.. And all those incidents with France is enough to tell the new Govt that France is not a reliable country not even close to being one.

So rather than doing things the hard way, the things are being done the easy way, work closely with countries with proven reliability.. ISRAEL for one. Russia also is reliable but one needs to know how to work with them. USA has supplied as promised and without having to sign any CISMOA. LSA etc.. So it all works for us..

 

[Panjab47]

??? what are you saying Bro ?

Maybe you understand this?

'The scene is one that should be retained on the Empires retina. The hosts of Indian soldiers marched through
the streets of Marseilles with the population, especially the female proportion, hanging onto the arms of Sikhs'

https://archive.org/stream/FrenchSikhHistoryPresentation/FrenchSikhHistoryPresentation_djvu.txt

You cannot use nato planes to bomb nato. So should focus on acquiring ones that are prepared for that eventuality.

 

[smestarz]

I think the thread "Know your Rafale" should be edited, possibly to "Know Dassault Rafale" it is very apparent that India is not taking it, and Since this is Defence forum of India and not Egypt the term "your" does not really apply.

Further, all the developments and all the technologies are known thanks to the initial poster who was very sure that India will be buying it, but now it becomes more and more apparent that its a capable plane, but technologically a bit inferior to F-35, but better aerodynamics than F-35 and costs almost same and actually expensive (based on some sources) to buy and use. LCC.

We still have a lot of Rafale lovers who are quoting French media and saying that the discussions for 36 are done and 90 extra are being discussed when the DM has been on record to say "... let us first see if we can agree to price and terms for 36...." He did also say that MoD is looking at only 36 plane deal and nothing else at the moment. Further the MiG-21 and Mig-27 in IAF will be replaced by Tejas only.

But then they way they convey it, seems that Dassault and France apparently are in much of the know than the Defence minister ..But then we cannot really blame these people, they are French.. and they feel that all they do have to be is just be present and they would get the deal.

Here is some positive news for rafale camp, but the source of this news is french, so they always try to show a positive news for Rafale.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/15...ult_Rafale_Order_to_2017_or_2018#.VvXu_3qpTpY