Know Your 'Rafale'

[gadeshi]

??? Air intakes and ducts, internal bays (huge !), landing gear, engine..... I don't see where to put 5T fuel. Sorry.

Have you looked at 3D views?
Look carefully. It's interactive, you can even tilt it as you like

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[gadeshi]

And another good looking F-16 based LTF idea:

 

[garg_bharat]

I used 5 years because of Rupee depreciation since 2011-12 . Military exp has historically grown more than 5 % YoY . Rupee has sufficiently depreciated any more depreciation will increase inflation forcing the RBI to intervene . Plus it depends not just on GDP growth rate but tax/gdp ratio which is low , GST and DTC will increase it much further when passed which will happen if only if congi turds allow it.

As long as commodity prices are low India is bound to grow if our fundamentals are correct. Which it has .Stable forex , CPI IW , CPI-U ,CPI-R , WPI ,FD all points towards health.

You can take $ figures rather than rupee figures, if you wish. This will remove rupee volatility from the calculation.

There is noise in data, as India grew strongly from a low base. As the base grows, further growth is harder to come. Tax changes will induce growth for couple of years at most.

Forex picture is stable but do not assume that Govt. can put it into defence.

The Govt. is finding it very hard to increase tax income. You have seen this year budget fiasco regarding EPF. There are too many exemptions on salary income, which are proving difficult to remove.

Typically indirect tax should be very low, and most income should come from direct taxes. However Govt, is unable to move.

I do not expect taxation to increase dramatically.

The direct tax base is low due to a very important reason - there is a shortage of good high paying jobs in India. The balance is tilted towards the low end.

 

[garg_bharat]

The point I was trying to make was not so much about Russia' s strength than about Europe weakness without the support of USA. About Russia they really work hard to fix their weaknesses .. faster than Lutwaffe who can only fly a handful of Typhoons at a time according reports.
Thankfully AdlA is more ready than Lutwaffe looking at :

Russia is trying to fend off a combined American/European assault, despite its weak economy. Any comparison of weapons is illogical. My worry for Europe is not Russia, but developing Muslim insurgency in heart of Europe. If this tuns into daily bomb blasts, Europe will find its life very hard.

 

[tharun]

Can India buy the design and plans of Su 37 from Russia like China did for J 10 and for what price ?Can you provide some info in eng on E-51 also?Thanks in advance.

That thing looks like Gripen-ng...........

 

[Immanuel]

YES, of course. That's why SH was only sold to Australia.

Keep sticking to your thought process and I hope Dassult doesn't budge on price, once the Rafale deal collapses, the chance of SH being acquired in numbers for India is pretty good.

 

[Immanuel]

OTAN vs Russia? Absolutely not sure Russia is so strong (today) : many weapons are over dated. Lack of well trained troops (except paratroopers). It's a colossus with feet of clay. Maybe in 10 years. But during this time EU will be stronger also. Terrorism and Russia will modify our perception about peace dividends....

EU stronger??? Please you're turning into a full blown comedian. What policies is EU adopting that will ensure it actually sruvives the next 10 years. Let's no even go into EU strength VS Russia, without the US, EU deosn't stand a chance against a Russian onslaught. On key weapons Russians out perform everyone else including the US. Even their older gen Super sonic cruise missiles are enough to cripple the most modern of navies.

EU is too busy dividing itself further on simple issues, war is too complex for EU to handle.

 

[gadeshi]

That thing looks like Gripen-ng...........

No, it has almost twice bigger MTOW and 18 tons class engine.
However, it could be scaled down for Al-31F (117S) if it would be needed for RuAF.

 

[BON PLAN]

The famed Rafale is also being used to bomb the said jihadi mud huts and in the context future ops, the F-35 will be used for whetever future wars need to be fought by the 3 services. Rafale deal first has to be cleared and at the said prices, it won't. The F-18H will be roughly half the cost of what is being quoted for the Rafae at the moment.

Rafale was never L-1, that has proven to be a farce. During that time it was declared that Rafale was 5% cheaper than the EF but we later end up staring at 70% cost escalations during negotiations even after the RFP was clear on what was needed. Please stop with your incorrect BS.

F-35 is bound to be the most used fighter of the next 30 years regardless of what anyone says.

:blah::blah::blah: .

 

[BON PLAN]

EU stronger??? Please you're turning into a full blown comedian. What policies is EU adopting that will ensure it actually sruvives the next 10 years. Let's no even go into EU strength VS Russia, without the US, EU deosn't stand a chance against a Russian onslaught. On key weapons Russians out perform everyone else including the US. Even their older gen Super sonic cruise missiles are enough to cripple the most modern of navies.

EU is too busy dividing itself further on simple issues, war is too complex for EU to handle.

another time :blah::blah::blah: .

 

[BON PLAN]

Russia is trying to fend off a combined American/European assault, despite its weak economy. Any comparison of weapons is illogical. My worry for Europe is not Russia, but developing Muslim insurgency in heart of Europe. If this tuns into daily bomb blasts, Europe will find its life very hard.

Next world war will be against islamist organization.

 

[BON PLAN]

Keep sticking to your thought process and I hope Dassult doesn't budge on price, once the Rafale deal collapses, the chance of SH being acquired in numbers for India is pretty good.

No chance.
SH18 old horse...
And Rafale deal don't collapse so far.... even if I agree it's now too long.

 

[Sam Biswas]

You can take $ figures rather than rupee figures, if you wish. This will remove rupee volatility from the calculation.

The direct tax base is low due to a very important reason - there is a shortage of good high paying jobs in India. The balance is tilted towards the low end.

It takes a minimum of FIVE years to realize the effect(s) of policy change. What PM Modi is doing to change India's economic conditions will require years of gestation. He is trying to change the fundamentals of Indian economy like transportation, railways, defense, manufacturing etc. as opposed to superficial changes like cheap rice and more free colleges which are useless but results are immediate. PM Modi's efforts will have lasting impact on India but will take a few years to bear fruit.

 

[garg_bharat]

Next world war will be against islamist organization.

There is a Sanskrit saying: "Vinash Kale Viprit Budhi".

It means when a great loss is near, the intellect is lost.

Europe is constantly taking decisions today which are counterintuitive and harmful.

The decision to let so many refugees come in when you have no ability to differentiate between good and bad.

The decision to launch regime change in Ukraine and plunge that country into a hopeless pit.

Arming Saudi to the hilt despite knowing that regime's bloodthirsty ways.

And of course the addiction to debt.

 

[warrior monk]

You can take $ figures rather than rupee figures, if you wish. This will remove rupee volatility from the calculation.

Which is what I have done took the initial base using current exchange rate then extrapolated in dollar without including wild fluctuations.

There is noise in data, as India grew strongly from a low base. As the base grows, further growth is harder to come. Tax changes will induce growth for couple of years at most.

There is Noise in signal that's why we use SNR what is noise in macroeconomics ?? Every country grows from low base , No , tax changes will simplify ease of doing business which will improve growth .

Forex picture is stable but do not assume that Govt. can put it into defence.

Read again what I said , I never said forex will be used for defense . I said RBI will use 350+ billion dollars forex to stabilize the rupee not buy damn Rafales.

The Govt. is finding it very hard to increase tax income. You have seen this year budget fiasco regarding EPF. There are too many exemptions on salary income, which are proving difficult to remove.

Just I term14 th Finance commission with increase in tax devolution to 42 % from 32 % and people wonder why our defence budget has not increased at a higher rate. DTC and GST will increase tax base.

Typically indirect tax should be very low, and most income should come from direct taxes. However Govt, is unable to move.

Lot of developing countries have the same problem It will change with GST and DTC .

The direct tax base is low due to a very important reason - there is a shortage of good high paying jobs in India. The balance is tilted towards the low end.

Also due to low base , tax dodging and fancy accounting .

 

[garg_bharat]

@warrior monk, you take exchange rate as mean for that particular year, not current exchange rate.

You have not understood my points about taxation. The tax rates are already high in India. There is a need to reduce indirect taxes, as indirect taxes discourage economic activity.

But the govt. Is unable to reduce indirect taxes, as direct taxes are low. The compliance in direct taxes has improved. But the base refuses to grow as needed.

If you want to project a growth rate for future, the best is to take long term average, like past 30 years, as long term averages smooth out short term blips.

 

[smestarz]

No idea is someone posted this

Paris acknowledges India may not purchase Rafale
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...a-may-not-purchase-rafale-116031700447_1.html
Paris is beginning to acknowledge the possibility that India might not buy the Rafale fighter because of sharp differences over the price, and New Delhi’s insistence on enforceable guarantees regarding the fighter’s delivery, performance and availability.

A senior French official with a close view of the on-going negotiations between New Delhi and Paris for 36 Rafale fighters told Business Standard on condition of anonymity: “If some people in the MoD (the ministry of defence) do not want to allow the Rafale deal to go through, so be it. We are currently building it for Egypt and Qatar, and we could have another customer in Malaysia.”


Underlining the irritation at repeated US offers to set up an assembly line in India to build the American F-16 Super Viper, the French official taunted: “If you don’t want the Rafale, go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan also.”

He was referring to Washington’s announcement last month of the sale to Pakistan of eight advanced Block 50/52 F-16 fighters for $699 million. Simultaneously, a senior Lockheed Martin official had publicly offered to “move our [F-16] production line from the US to India”.

Reminded that France, too, was supplying submarines to both India and Pakistan (DCNS is building six Scorpene submarines with Mazagon Dock, after earlier selling Pakistan three advanced Agosta-90B submarines with air independent propulsion), he retorted, “That is different. Pakistan is getting a different submarine from what we are providing to India.”

The official dismissed the notion that an Indian order was critical for Dassault to break-even in the Rafale project, in which tens of billion euros have been spent on developing the fighter and establishing a production line. The official claimed, “The Rafale project is commercially viable based on the numbers that the French military requires, even if there is not a single export order.”

In fact, defence budget cuts have forced the French military to slash Rafale orders from over 300 originally planned to only 180 ordered so far. That is a small order, given that the Eurofighter Typhoon has over 700 aircraft on order; while more than 4,500 F-16s have been built over the years.

On New Delhi’s demands for sovereign guarantees from the French government, or a bank guarantee from Dassault, to cover the possibility of delivery or performance shortfalls in the Rafale, the official declared the two countries would soon sign an inter-governmental agreement (IGA), which would function as a sovereign guarantee.

“The government of France is standing behind the sale. Surely, India is not asking for a bank guarantee when it has the word of the French government?” asked the official.

When it was pointed out that the IGA would only outline a supply agreement in broad terms, without detailed binding clauses and penalties, the official responded that the IGA was a strategic agreement between Paris and New Delhi, and that “a phrase here or a sentence there would make no difference.”

“In 1917, when the United States abandoned its isolationism and sent a division of troops to France to fight in World War I, it was not because there was some document with a clause that required them to fight. It was because of a common strategic aim. New Delhi and Paris must have a common strategic aim on the Rafale.”

French officials argue that if Dassault is required to provide a bank guarantee against possible shortfalls in delivery and performance, India should cover that cost, which is normally three-four per cent of the guarantee amount.

Meanwhile, the Cost Negotiation Committee on the Rafale has made little headway in bridging the gap between the French demand and Indian counter-offer, which are believed to be around euro 12 billion and euro 9 billion, respectively. Issues of liability are further complicating the likelihood of a deal soon.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Paris last April, had requested for 36 Rafales, after a breakdown in negotiations for a much larger order for 126 Rafales. The Indian Air Force had chosen the Rafale on January 31, 2012, after an exhaustive evaluation of six fighter aircraft.

Adieu Ra................

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Posted at: Mar 24, 2016, 1:09 AM; last updated: Mar 24, 2016, 1:09 AM (IST)
Rafale talks to restart, French negotiators arrive on March 29
Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, March 23


Two months after India and France disagreed on the pricing of the 36 Rafale fighter jets, the two sides are set to re-start negotiations on the issue.

India, in January this year, did not accept the price quoted by Rafale manufacturers—Dassault Aviation. The company was asked to come up with a fresh quote on pricing. Sources said French negotiators would reach New Delhi on March 29.


Within the Ministry of Defence, a benchmark figure has been decided upon and in no way this can be changed. Sources said the benchmark was close to $7 billion (Rs 46,000 crore, as on today’s dollar rates). Anything beyond that would be impossible to justify within the country.

During the three-day visit of French President Francois Hollande in January, a memorandum of understanding (MoU) was signed as the first step towards signing a formal inter-governmental agreement (IGA). Only the pricing had to be decided. Specific aspects were discussed on reducing the price, a top functionary said.

Last-minute efforts to ink the IGA for the purchase of jets during Hollande’s visit had come to a naught as New Delhi was not happy with the pricing.

The French President was quoted as having cited a figure of $9 billion for 36 jets, including two types of missiles (air-to-ground and air-to-air), training of pilots, bombs and base facilities for planes.

It would translate into Rs 59,000 crore or Rs 1,630 crore per piece. Indian negotiators are willing to pay around $7 billion or Rs 46,000 crore (Rs 1,180 crore per piece).

The IAF is now at its lowest combat strength in more than a decade. The IAF has informed the government of the gravity of the situation.

The IAF, with only 33 squadrons (16-18 planes in each), is nine short of the government mandated 42 squadrons needed to tackle a simultaneous two-front war with China and Pakistan.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...ch-negotiators-arrive-on-march-29/212951.html

 

[PARIKRAMA]

++

US MIC Marketing Blitz continues.. first F16 now F18

+++
India keen to buy F/A 18 Super Hornet fighter jets for IAF
India had considered F-18 Super Hornet during the earlier hunt for 126 medium multi-role fighter jets. But the US entry lost out to the French Rafale.

India is keen to consider Boeing's offer to supply F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jets to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Sources said that New Delhi will take a hard look at the proposal in April when a high-level delegation will engage the Indian officials on the construct of the offer. US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter will be in India on April 10 in a visit that is expected to take lift cooperation to a new level.

Boeing has offered F/A-18 Super Hornets under the "Make in India" framework of the Indian government. Sources said the proposal is worth considering as IAF is facing acute shortage of fighter jets. The IAF has already made it clear that the 36 Rafale fighter jets that are being negotiated with France are inadequate to meet its operational requirement.

There is a view emerging in the Indian security establishment that F/A-18 Super Hornets can also negate the sale of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan by the US. Super Hornet is a carrier based multi-role fighter which can be used by the Indian navy as well. Sources said the aircraft can meet both the IAF and Indian navy's operational requirement.

India had considered F-18 Super Hornet during the earlier hunt for 126 medium multi-role fighter jets. But the US entry lost out to the French Rafale.

With the government scrapping the proposed contract which could not be sealed even after prolonged discussions with the French side, it opened doors for other fighter makers to make fresh bids.

Defence ministerManohar Parrikarhas said the government is working out the best deal with the French. The contract, said to be in the final lap of negotiations is stuck over the price of 36 jets being sought by the French side. Sources said the deal is working out to be worth Rs 60,000 crore.

There is a sense of urgency in acquiring new aircraft as IAF's force levels are depleting due to an ageing fleet. Sources said the "Make in India" proposal of F-18s will solve the problem on the long term basis. Boeing's proposal also involves significant transfer of technology with a substantial indigenous content.

The proposal will also benefit the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft "Tejas" programme which needs to be resurrected after prolonged delays.

Sources said the acquisition can be put on fast track considering the urgency. The government has already stressed on going for direct military sale the route which is faster instead of inviting global bids.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...per-hornet-fighter-jets-for-iaf/1/626657.html

and sjha reaction

 

[abingdonboy]

No idea is someone posted this

Paris acknowledges India may not purchase Rafale
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...a-may-not-purchase-rafale-116031700447_1.html
Paris is beginning to acknowledge the possibility that India might not buy the Rafale fighter because of sharp differences over the price, and New Delhi’s insistence on enforceable guarantees regarding the fighter’s delivery, performance and availability.

A senior French official with a close view of the on-going negotiations between New Delhi and Paris for 36 Rafale fighters told Business Standard on condition of anonymity: “If some people in the MoD (the ministry of defence) do not want to allow the Rafale deal to go through, so be it. We are currently building it for Egypt and Qatar, and we could have another customer in Malaysia.”


Underlining the irritation at repeated US offers to set up an assembly line in India to build the American F-16 Super Viper, the French official taunted: “If you don’t want the Rafale, go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan also.”

He was referring to Washington’s announcement last month of the sale to Pakistan of eight advanced Block 50/52 F-16 fighters for $699 million. Simultaneously, a senior Lockheed Martin official had publicly offered to “move our [F-16] production line from the US to India”.

Reminded that France, too, was supplying submarines to both India and Pakistan (DCNS is building six Scorpene submarines with Mazagon Dock, after earlier selling Pakistan three advanced Agosta-90B submarines with air independent propulsion), he retorted, “That is different. Pakistan is getting a different submarine from what we are providing to India.”

The official dismissed the notion that an Indian order was critical for Dassault to break-even in the Rafale project, in which tens of billion euros have been spent on developing the fighter and establishing a production line. The official claimed, “The Rafale project is commercially viable based on the numbers that the French military requires, even if there is not a single export order.”

In fact, defence budget cuts have forced the French military to slash Rafale orders from over 300 originally planned to only 180 ordered so far. That is a small order, given that the Eurofighter Typhoon has over 700 aircraft on order; while more than 4,500 F-16s have been built over the years.

On New Delhi’s demands for sovereign guarantees from the French government, or a bank guarantee from Dassault, to cover the possibility of delivery or performance shortfalls in the Rafale, the official declared the two countries would soon sign an inter-governmental agreement (IGA), which would function as a sovereign guarantee.

“The government of France is standing behind the sale. Surely, India is not asking for a bank guarantee when it has the word of the French government?” asked the official.

When it was pointed out that the IGA would only outline a supply agreement in broad terms, without detailed binding clauses and penalties, the official responded that the IGA was a strategic agreement between Paris and New Delhi, and that “a phrase here or a sentence there would make no difference.”

“In 1917, when the United States abandoned its isolationism and sent a division of troops to France to fight in World War I, it was not because there was some document with a clause that required them to fight. It was because of a common strategic aim. New Delhi and Paris must have a common strategic aim on the Rafale.”

French officials argue that if Dassault is required to provide a bank guarantee against possible shortfalls in delivery and performance, India should cover that cost, which is normally three-four per cent of the guarantee amount.

Meanwhile, the Cost Negotiation Committee on the Rafale has made little headway in bridging the gap between the French demand and Indian counter-offer, which are believed to be around euro 12 billion and euro 9 billion, respectively. Issues of liability are further complicating the likelihood of a deal soon.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Paris last April, had requested for 36 Rafales, after a breakdown in negotiations for a much larger order for 126 Rafales. The Indian Air Force had chosen the Rafale on January 31, 2012, after an exhaustive evaluation of six fighter aircraft.

Adieu Ra................

From the Lockhead Martin rep Ajai Shukla himself. Isn't it funny, the talk of F-16 (an LM product) for India ramps up and then BAM this:


:bs: