Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

Glad you noticed too .. at least they did not spell Rafale Rafael in the legend.

If they would have put Rafail, I would not have been surprised either..but then lets stay on the topic

 

[smestarz]

What is interesting is
Now

11billion euros is only for 36 rafales in flyaway cilondition

The support is costing extra IE 5 - 10 years long maintainance is extra cost
They are throwing in couple of years support as extra incentive

So this price does not include support and neither as was being said about by rafale lobby & fanboys

Also MBDA has said in separate press release that weapons are going to cost extra

Insane

More clear info or more confusing, I mean almost a month back it was supposed to 36 planes for 12 billion dollars with weapons LCC for 40 year ? And some Rafale fan boys did say that the Flyway cost is just below US$ 80 million a plane. But then this is contradictory... It makes more sense why even Parrikar is not interested to look at it.. I think MoD will wait and wait and wait, and then finally IAF will say.. damn it, get us some new plans, Even tejas are OK.
IAF is like handsome guy of 25 who is hell bent on having a rich, beautiful and sexy spouse,, but then then she is hard to get, but as he gets past his 30s and his hair starts falling etc etc, even the girls he used to reject before now reject him.. I think IAF will soon reach that state. Thats when it loses the respect of the people and other forces..

 

[smestarz]

As mentioned by @Gessler sometime ago Dassault is already working on several upgrades. To which extent these upgrades are included in the current negotiation is an interesting question.

Thats 30 years as per french estimate, but then the world might just pass by. The Russians are already on to phototronic Radar, how would that fare vs GaN based AESA.. Even GaN based AESA might fall itself short against Phototronic Radar.. Also with the various upgrades how would the fare up against the Russian tech.
You do highlight that Dassault is investing in good tech, but then try not to assume that the Russians are sitting idel or just chasing the west.. If the Russians get phototronic systems operational in PAKFA, then rafale is as extinct as Nieuport or Bloch planes..

 

[smestarz]

As mentioned by @Gessler sometime ago Dassault is already working on several upgrades. To which extent these upgrades are included in the current negotiation is an interesting question.

Thats 30 years as per french estimate, but then the world might just pass by. The Russians are already on to phototronic Radar, how would that fare vs GaN based AESA.. Even GaN based AESA might fall itself short against Phototronic Radar.. Also with the various upgrades how would the fare up against the Russian tech.
You do highlight that Dassault is investing in good tech, but then try not to assume that the Russians are sitting idel or just chasing the west.. If the Russians get phototronic systems operational in PAKFA, then rafale is as extinct as Nieuport or Bloch planes..
For example
Rafales various shapings might not still render it Stealthy
Phototronic Radar could not be countered by GaN based AESA
SPECTRA cannot do anything against Phototronic systems to jam it..
I mean it would make Rafale just a plane that can fly and better than probably just F-16

 

[Jangaruda]

Buying the rafale does not make any sense except fr the fact that the top IAF brass hav got huge bribes nd r nw sayin weekly that if we dont buy it thn china nd pakis will invade us.. The point is Su-30 MKIs can perform the roles which dassault proposes the rafale wud perform nd plz remind me why the hell shud we buy a 4-- gen fighter wen we already hav a 4++ gen fighter.. the conclusion being the rafale only got through the MRCA by bribes... It shud nevr hav been selected in the first place.. France has proved time nd again that it cn be easily pressured by USA see hw they denied russia the Mistral class amphibious assault ships wat gurantee do v hav that halfway throu the deal they wont back out bcoz the US wants them to...

 

[Tactical Frog]

Thats 30 years as per french estimate, but then the world might just pass by. The Russians are already on to phototronic Radar, how would that fare vs GaN based AESA.. Even GaN based AESA might fall itself short against Phototronic Radar.. Also with the various upgrades how would the fare up against the Russian tech.
You do highlight that Dassault is investing in good tech, but then try not to assume that the Russians are sitting idel or just chasing the west.. If the Russians get phototronic systems operational in PAKFA, then rafale is as extinct as Nieuport or Bloch planes..
For example
Rafales various shapings might not still render it Stealthy
Phototronic Radar could not be countered by GaN based AESA
SPECTRA cannot do anything against Phototronic systems to jam it..
I mean it would make Rafale just a plane that can fly and better than probably just F-16

Phototronic radar ? Gee, what is that ? And maybe laser guns too ?

 

[Tactical Frog]

Buying the rafale does not make any sense except fr the fact that the top IAF brass hav got huge bribes nd r nw sayin weekly that if we dont buy it thn china nd pakis will invade us.. The point is Su-30 MKIs can perform the roles which dassault proposes the rafale wud perform nd plz remind me why the hell shud we buy a 4-- gen fighter wen we already hav a 4++ gen fighter.. the conclusion being the rafale only got through the MRCA by bribes... It shud nevr hav been selected in the first place.. France has proved time nd again that it cn be easily pressured by USA see hw they denied russia the Mistral class amphibious assault ships wat gurantee do v hav that halfway throu the deal they wont back out bcoz the US wants them to...

I have already said that , but unless India is planning to annex Nepal or Sri Lanka in violation of all known international laws you should be fine .. Putin put us in a lose - lose situation, where we were either losing a valuable deal or losing all credibility with ALL of our Nato partners.

 

[garg_bharat]

I have already said that , but unless India is planning to annex Nepal or Sri Lanka in violation of all known international laws you should be fine .. Putin put us in a lose - lose situation, where we were either losing a valuable deal or losing all credibility with ALL of our Nato partners.

You are a very young guy, and it is unlikely that you can make such statements with any confidence. Like "annex Nepal or Sri Lanka".

Such comments are stupid.

The only issue with Rafale (that is known) is pricing. There is nothing else to it.

 

[smestarz]

Phototronic radar ? Gee, what is that ? And maybe laser guns too ?

Phototonic radar...try to read in PAKFA thread and you will get more details
Also it proves that French in a way are frogs in pond.. They stay in French pond and feel that the world is only France and outside their pond nothing exists..

 

[abingdonboy]

Buying the rafale does not make any sense except fr the fact that the top IAF brass hav got huge bribes .

Until you can prove this, I would keep my mouth shut and not sling bud at those who have devouted their lives to serving their country.

 

[smestarz]

Until you can prove this, I would keep my mouth shut and not sling bud at those who have devouted their lives to serving their country.

How about the PILATUS Trainer deal when the then chief of IAF lied to through his teeth about pricing?
HE LIED TO THE DEFENCE MINISTRY, Now, would you call that NATIONALISM when you lie to favour import of a certain plane, saying it is Cheaper and then it turns out now that Pilatus is actually more expensive

 

[garg_bharat]

@smestarz, let us not get into this fight.

Pilatus is not the issue we are worried about.

 

[Superdefender]

IAF planned for a tender in 2002, but actual tender happened in 2006. Had we purchased even 3 sqdns of Rafale in 2002, it would have been good. India would have got all 54 Rafales till 2006. But now!!! It is too late. In 2000, IAF thought they need a medium multirole aircraft to replace aging ones. Rafale procurement should have been completed by that time. Just after a few years, we will have our own 5th gen medium multiole fighter! Let look at the best case. All financial issues will be solved by this year and by 2020, we'll get all 36 birds. When they become obsolete, what to do? Sell them to Sri Lanka!? Too late........
Too late.........
Too late. Time flies faster than fighter.

 

[Gessler]

Phototonic radar...try to read in PAKFA thread and you will get more details
Also it proves that French in a way are frogs in pond.. They stay in French pond and feel that the world is only France and outside their pond nothing exists..

Photonic, not Phototonic.

The idea is to utilize photons instead of electrons, with the intention of expanding the scope of the EM spectrum that can be put to use for detection/tracking purposes.

It's a revolutionary tech and will take a LOT of time to mature.

Even the PAK-FA will remain operating the Tikhomirov N-036 AESA for atleast 10 years from the point of induction. GaN AESAs will stay relevant for a nice, long time. Well worth the money being put in.

Even the Super-Sukhoi upgrade will likely incorporate a GaN-based AESA, derived from MIRES family.

 

[Superdefender]

36 Rafales has run into legal issues. Ha ha ha....this is getting funnier and funnier day by day.

 

[Superdefender]

Photonic, not Phototonic.

The idea is to utilize photons instead of electrons, with the intention of expanding the scope of the EM spectrum that can be put to use for detection/tracking purposes.

It's a revolutionary tech and will take a LOT of time to mature.

Even the PAK-FA will remain operating the Tikhomirov N-036 AESA for atleast 10 years from the point of induction. GaN AESAs will stay relevant for a nice, long time. Well worth the money being put in.

Even the Super-Sukhoi upgrade will likely incorporate a GaN-based AESA, derived from MIRES family.

AMCA will have too...................................

 

[Tactical Frog]

IAF planned for a tender in 2002, but actual tender happened in 2006. Had we purchased even 3 sqdns of Rafale in 2002, it would have been good. India would have got all 54 Rafales till 2006. But now!!! It is too late. In 2000, IAF thought they need a medium multirole aircraft to replace aging ones. Rafale procurement should have been completed by that time. Just after a few years, we will have our own 5th gen medium multiole fighter! Let look at the best case. All financial issues will be solved by this year and by 2020, we'll get all 36 birds. When they become obsolete, what to do? Sell them to Sri Lanka!? Too late........
Too late.........
Too late. Time flies faster than fighter.

@Superdefender , your AMCA looks absolutely great on pictures, but it is still on the drawing board ! How can you be sure such an ambitious project can be completed before 2030 looking at the trouble history of F-35 ? Or your own Tejas ? Your air force needs a reliable omnirole fighter for the next 15 years, just like the US Navy will be relying on the SuperHornet as main workhorse.

 

[gadeshi]

Photonic, not Phototonic.

The idea is to utilize photons instead of electrons, with the intention of expanding the scope of the EM spectrum that can be put to use for detection/tracking purposes.

It's a revolutionary tech and will take a LOT of time to mature.

Even the PAK-FA will remain operating the Tikhomirov N-036 AESA for atleast 10 years from the point of induction. GaN AESAs will stay relevant for a nice, long time. Well worth the money being put in.

Even the Super-Sukhoi upgrade will likely incorporate a GaN-based AESA, derived from MIRES family.

DAESA - completely digital AESA.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Immanuel]

The delivery date is entirely dependent on contract signature. If it's finalized soon, deliveries can be faster than anyone would expect.

I'm afraid I can't comment on the French production line's details though, @BON PLAN @Tactical Frog and people like @halloweene and Picdelamirand-oil are best at that.

" By late 2019 the last of the (36) Rafales will arrive if the contract is inked by this June. "

- Prasun K. Sengupta

Chor Gupta's rants are hardly a valid source

 

[Superdefender]

@Superdefender , your AMCA looks absolutely great on pictures, but it is still on the drawing board ! How can you be sure such an ambitious project can be completed before 2030 looking at the trouble history of F-35 ? Or your own Tejas ? Your air force needs a reliable omnirole fighter for the next 15 years, just like the US Navy will be relying on the SuperHornet as main workhorse.

Sir, Yes, Sir....Totally understand your worries. But my amature brain says to me that We don't have to worry no one has the guts to attack us in the next 15yrs! That's why I am so ambitious and excited, Sir.