Know Your 'Rafale'

[gaurav96]

In french minister declarations, he stated that india may export Rafale either.

come again?:shocked:

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

@Lions Of Punjab, the gist is that HAL does not have the ability to build the engine and other components. Dassualt is actually telling a truth that is well known.

However what this news item does not say is that the French are not keen to help set up the manufacturing process to build the engine, for example. French are saying to HAL - build the plant and we shall give you the drawings. You build the engine based on drawings. HAL simply does not have expertise to either set up the plant or to build the engine from drawings.

HAL wants hand-holding like it happened in case of Su-30. French are not too keen.

MMRCA project has got trapped in local manufacturing, while it was supposed to be an urgent operational requirement best met through outright imports (and maintenance knowledge).

MMRCA project has become far far bigger than what it was supposed to be, and in the process, the financial side has become hazy.

Well
ToT
setting up industrial base for aviation sector (learning) - 50% offset

these are the goals of this deal, also it was the tender condition

now if you take all thee out by saying HAL does not have this capability - whats the use ?

if HAL had the capability, why wouod be ordering this ?

it is precisely to learn thru handholding (ToT & 50% offsets) that people are showing off and pushing this deal, and govt is willing for it

 

[sgarg]

it is precisely to learn thru handholding (ToT & 50% offsets) that people are showing off and pushing this deal, and govt is willing for it

MMRCA is a mirage. This "nautanki" will go on for some more time. Wake me up when the deal is signed. Thoroughly bored and tired of discussion on this deal.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

In french minister declarations, he stated that india may export Rafale either.

2 issues

what he has said is verbal - press statements there are no written / commited approval for exports in contract

if France the OEM has not yet signed a single deal for exports how do we expect India to bag export orders?

this is plain & simple lolipop

 

[myana]

Well expecting export of Rafales made in India is Day Dreaming.

Well by the time it is ready for export you will have fully operational f35(expensive 5th gen fighter ) and j31(cheap 5th gen fighter).

What will be the price of it :shocked:

Which dumb nation will buy a 4.5 gen fighter when era will of 5th gen fighters and every one would be developing their 6th gen fighters.

 

[SGRU]

Re: India, France close to sealing $15bn Rafale deal

i think that india should not do it. look at mistral, if Nato economically chokes russia then whos next? china and india

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

Re: India, France close to sealing $15bn Rafale deal

what ever the govt decides to do plz do it quickly. either yes or no and end this ever lasting debate of is it good deal or bad put to rest. its getting very repeatative and boring now.

 

[ersakthivel]

Well expecting export of Rafales made in India is Day Dreaming.

Well by the time it is ready for export you will have fully operational f35(expensive 5th gen fighter ) and j31(cheap 5th gen fighter).

What will be the price of it :shocked:

Which dumb nation will buy a 4.5 gen fighter when era will of 5th gen fighters and every one would be developing their 6th gen fighters.

There is one nation that is doing it. that is India.

 

[cobra commando]

Rafale nuclear strike training, from cockpit, complete w. pixelated ASMP:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Acxj1DNBqe0

 

[halloweene]

Onboard alert, 5 mins to take off. Checking sensors. Description of the mission. while taking off "the plane is heavier than usual" 180 Kts take off. Speed 350 to refuel. refuel while slow tunrning (300 Kts). Automatic follow ground, 300 feet, 500 Kts (french regulations, can do better). Recalibration of one of the inertials (FAS do not use GPS, each Rafale has two inertials). 8'10 : two mig 29 radars detected by spectra, 52 Nms. 8.18 Migs aqcuired by radar. Rafales climbing and accelerating so as to enter best flight domain for MICA EM. 8'31, shoot. Just after you can see on screen Spectra ECM working (small "thunders" on screnn). green and yellow lines are detection ranges for Mig 29 radar. 9.05 : missile alignment start. 9.30 : release of asmp.
.

 

[halloweene]

After careful checking, the video is a mix of several vidoes. And it is not 52 NMs, but 32.

 

[halloweene]

On the technology front, a future version of the Rafale is expected to show "a major evolution" with high datalink capacity and an active electronically scanned array radar fitted in the skin of the fighter, instead of the present front-facing radar. That new capability is expected in 2020 to 2025 and would allow an active electronic warfare and a very high data rate for communications, he said.

Thales builds the RBE2 radar for the Rafale.

The present Spectra EW pod gathers a wealth of data, which could be sent to other pilots and allies if the datalink were there, Mercier said. Thales and MBDA built the Spectra.

Another expected upgrade is a new-generation reconnaissance pod, intended to deliver detection at a higher altitude than the present system, which is not ineffective, but it is time to move on, Mercier said.

A high datalink is part of the move toward the big data and cloud applied to military aircraft. The service plans to receive a second standard of the A330 multirole tanker transport (MRTT) aircraft, which will be equipped as a network node with command-and-control systems, reflecting the interest in datalinks, an Air Force spokesman said.

Air Force planners are studying how a future combat system would not be limited to a combat aircraft but connect manned and unmanned aircraft with warships, submarines, tanks and other forces.

French Air Chief Confident on Rafale Exports | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[akshay m]

Rafale Deal Nosedives in Negotiation Combat
Rafale Deal Nosedives in Negotiation Combat - The New Indian Express

Parrikar has said that the government must stand its ground and not give in during negotiations
In rough weather :Rafale fighter jet

NEW DELHI: The much-awaited multi-billion dollar Rafale combat aircraft deal with France has once again run into rough weather. After negotiations of almost three years, it has now hit a 'deadlock' with both India and France refusing to concede to the other's demands.

When Rafale was declared the lowest bidder in January 2012, all eyes were on the inking of this deal that was touted as the 'mother of all defence deals'. But the cost negotiation committee set up in February 2012 to work out the modalities for the deal has not reached a conclusion yet.

The newly-appointed Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and a top official of his ministry are determined to block the deal till the ministry's demands are accepted by the French side. Though during the recent visit of French defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian earlier this month Parrikar had assured he would do everything in his power to expedite the deal, he is firm that his ministry's demands must be accepted first. According to defence ministry officials privy to developments, at a presentation on the Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme a fortnight back, Parrikar said that the government must stand its ground and not give in during negotiations. Parrikar's opinion is seconded by the Joint Secretary and Acquisition Manager (Air) Rajeev Verma, who plays a key role in the deal. Verma, a 1992 UT-cadre IAS officer, has made it clear that till the French side agrees to ministry's demand, which was specified in the original tender, there will be no progress on the matter. During recent meetings of the negotiations committee, Verma has been virtually hostile towards the deal, say sources.

After cost escalation, the French major Dassault Aviation, which manufactures Rafale fighter jets, has refused to take "full responsibility" for the 108 fighters to be manufactured in India by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) as per the original tender. Eighteen of the 126 planes will be purchased directly from Dassault, while Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will manufacture the other 108 under a licence, at an upcoming facility in Bangalore. "The ministry is in no hurry to conclude the negotiations despite what people may say. Dassault has to accept commitment mentioned in the RFP (Request for proposal)," a key defence ministry official said on the condition of anonymity.

Another ministry insider said the production sharing agreement with HAL is stuck as well. Furthermore, Dassault is not agreeing to HAL's demand that it take responsibility for manufacture in India, regardless of French government's pressure. It is too risky, according to a defence ministry source.

"After cost escalation, now accepting terms and conditions of the original tender have emerged as the key issue to be resolved. The RFP clearly stated that under the transfer of technology agreement, the French will have to fully comply with it and also take full responsibility of Indian manufactured fighter jets," said a senior defence ministry official. Officials say in 2007, when the tender was floated, the cost of the programme was $12 billion (`42,000 crore). When the lowest bidder was declared in January 2012, the cost of the deal shot up to $18 billion (`90,000 crore). Now with inclusion of transfer of technology, life cycle cost and creating assembly line, the deal has virtually crossed a whopping $20 billion.

The Air Force is seeking to replace its ageing MiG-21s with a modern fighter and MMRCA fits well between India's high-end Sukhoi-30MKIs and its low-end Tejas LCA lightweight fighter. The IAF has a sanctioned strength of 45 fighter jet squadrons. However, it only has 32 squadrons operational as old aircraft have been retired. M/s Dassault Aviation of France, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) of Rafale aircraft, emerged as L-1 bidder for procurement of Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) based on its quotation. Sources also said the Dassault India representatives have repeatedly denied meeting with the ministry officials, including Verma.

 

[Illusive]

Indian squadron levels are reaching critical levels and still this deal hasn't been signed yet, how long before EFT is considered.

 

[halloweene]

You will have exactly the same problem with any OEM. You can't ask a company to be held for responsible if another company fails to apply procedures etc.
Oh btw it is not HAL that is asking for Dassault to be 100% liable for HAL built Rafales.
And NO it wasn't in RFP.

 

[Zebra]

Rafale in storm clouds, Parrikar says IAF can make do with Sukhoi-30s | Business Standard News

 

[mattster]

This whole deal makes the Indian MOD and IAF and GOI look like fools.

If you are desperate for new fighters and you have your own LCA in the works, then why not just buy the damn aircraft off the shelve.
rafale with aesa is a true 4.5 gen fighter. HAL is simply not up to the job.

Local manufacturing is great but not every project needs to be local.
You already have the LCA for local manufacturing.

Dassault would have to be crazy to be 100% responsible for HAL manufactured fighters.

 

[Lone Ranger]

This whole deal makes the Indian MOD and IAF and GOI look like fools.

If you are desperate for new fighters and you have your own LCA in the works, then why not just buy the damn aircraft off the shelve.
rafale with aesa is a true 4.5 gen fighter. HAL is simply not up to the job.

Local manufacturing is great but not every project needs to be local.
You already have the LCA for local manufacturing.

Dassault would have to be crazy to be 100% responsible for HAL manufactured fighters.

exactly hal has screwd even quality of mki and even they are falling from sky , dis invest this useless psu

 

[Zebra]

exactly hal has screwd even quality of mki and even they are falling from sky , dis invest this useless psu

Don't cry sir. Soon they gonna shut it off, just for you.

Happy now!

 

[Lone Ranger]

Don't cry sir. Soon they gonna shut it off, just for you.

Happy now!

privatizing it will turn it into well oiled machine