Know Your 'Rafale'

[p2prada]

Then what is fun of announcing someone as L2?

This is done in order to split the contract if L1 says they cannot deliver goods in time. But L2 will also have to deliver the goods at the same price as L1. And L2 will also have to provide full ToT and industrial production. That won't be acceptable to L2 of course. There is L3, L4 and so on as long as technical requirements are fulfilled. That's why in the assault rifle tender 4 competitors were chosen for bids (1 dropped out), instead of two. Now, L1, L2 and L3 will be determined.

As of today also govt can interpret the way they like, if they want.

No.

http://mod.nic.in/writereaddata/DPP2013.pdf

It is open for all to see.

Govt can initiate discussions with L2 only if they think L2 is providing technologies L1 cannot match. F-35 has stealth while Rafale does not, but Rafale is cheaper and becomes L1. Then govt has the right to negotiate with the L2 (F-35) simply because of superior technology. But for this to happen, they should not start negotiations with L1. In the MRCA case, L1 negotiations have already begun, so there is no requirement to renew negotiations with L2. L2 does not have superior technology and only Rafale and EF were good enough to clear technical requirements, so there is no L3, L4 and so on.

 

[halloweene]

Manu Pubby is indeed a very good journalist, although "sources" are... Well... EF consortium is getting more and more desperate as final signature is closing up...

Citing an 2009 article from "Rufus" on SP is just ridiculous. Just citing this sentence for example only show incompetence of the author

France's semiconductor and computer industry was simply incapable of providing the necessary components to create a truely cutting edge system

Etc.

 

[Zebra]

This is done in order to split the contract if L1 says they cannot deliver goods in time. But L2 will also have to deliver the goods at the same price as L1. And L2 will also have to provide full ToT and industrial production. That won't be acceptable to L2 of course. There is L3, L4 and so on as long as technical requirements are fulfilled. That's why in the assault rifle tender 4 competitors were chosen for bids (1 dropped out), instead of two. Now, L1, L2 and L3 will be determined.

No.

http://mod.nic.in/writereaddata/DPP2013.pdf

It is open for all to see.

Govt can initiate discussions with L2 only if they think L2 is providing technologies L1 cannot match. F-35 has stealth while Rafale does not, but Rafale is cheaper and becomes L1. Then govt has the right to negotiate with the L2 (F-35) simply because of superior technology. But for this to happen, they should not start negotiations with L1. In the MRCA case, L1 negotiations have already begun, so there is no requirement to renew negotiations with L2. L2 does not have superior technology and only Rafale and EF were good enough to clear technical requirements, so there is no L3, L4 and so on.

Please provide some more info and link, that L1 is ready to give much more then L2.

Just to name one.....L2 is offering 'Star Wars' helmet with Typhoon, what about L1!

BTW, I don't like L1 and L2. For me L3 and even L4 are much better. Specially when IAF is going for PAK-FA and FGFA also.

On the other end, let's wait for the out come of review committee's report.

For this.....Could India's Review of MMRCA Selection Process Bring Back Eurofighter?



And for this.....http://mod.nic.in/writereaddata/DPP2013.pdf, tell me the page number, it will be easy. Other wise its of no use.

 

[Anoop Sajwan]

Please provide some more info and link, that L1 is ready to give much more then L2.

Just to name one.....L2 is offering 'Star Wars' helmet with Typhoon, what about L1!

BTW, I don't like L1 and L2. For me L3 and even L4 are much better. Specially when IAF is going for PAK-FA and FGFA also.

On the other end, let's wait for the out come of review committee's report.

For this.....Could India's Review of MMRCA Selection Process Bring Back Eurofighter?



And for this.....http://mod.nic.in/writereaddata/DPP2013.pdf, tell me the page number, it will be easy. Other wise its of no use.

ook at recent HAK deal, how can you believe in Britishers dude.

 

[p2prada]

Please provide some more info and link, that L1 is ready to give much more then L2.

Just to name one.....L2 is offering 'Star Wars' helmet with Typhoon, what about L1!

There's nothing special in it.

BTW, I don't like L1 and L2. For me L3 and even L4 are much better. Specially when IAF is going for PAK-FA and FGFA also.

There is no L3 and L4. MRCA deal has only L1 and L2.

On the other end, let's wait for the out come of review committee's report.

Nothing will happen. Rafale deal will be signed soon.

 

[halloweene]

Retired brass have mentioned that Rafale's fly away cost offered in the Indian MRCA is $85 Million.

Coherent with the numbers we have here in France.

 

[halloweene]

France, UAE Close In on Spy Sat Deal

A UAE source close to the negotiations told Defense News that the discussions on the deal were completed and French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian is expected soon in the UAE.

"For the Falcon Eye deal to proceed there is a need for high level of technology transfer, and for that we have negotiated the possible purchase of 40 Rafale jets with the overhaul of the Mirage 2000 fleet," the source said.


France, UAE Close In on Spy Sat Deal | Defense News | defensenews.com

As usual conflicting reports...

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

In relation to MMRCA deal and clone reports regarding prices and so on

 

[Zebra]

French fighter jet deal close: IAF chief Arup Raha | Zee News

Last Updated: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 - 12:05

New Delhi: Indian Air Force Chief has said conclusion of a $22 billion fighter jet deal with French company Dassault Aviation was imminent after missed deadlines and delays.

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha told an Indian newspaper that the military could not afford any more hold ups of the 2012 deal to supply 126 French-made Rafale fighters.

Raha said a deadline for finalisation of the deal had not been set but added "it`s going to happen soon."

He also appeared to throw cold water on attempts to re-enter the race for the giant contract by a European consortium that makes the Eurofighter, a rival to the Rafale.

"It will not be appropriate to make any changes in the process," he said in an interview with an English daily published on Wednesday.

"The current government has set the pace of work and things are moving fast enough on the fighter deal."

The daily quoted a Defence Ministry official as saying "Rafale has run through the finish line."

"It`s too late in the day to parachute into the race. The door is closed," the unnamed official said.

Dassault won the right in 2012 to enter exclusive negotiations with India to supply 126 fighters after lodging a lower bid than Eurofighter for a tender with an estimated value of $12 billion.

Those negotiations have since been delayed, prompting Britain to raise the contract with Prime Minister Narendra Modi`s government in July, holding out hope for the Eurofighter.

India`s right-wing government, which swept to power in May, has pledged to streamline and speed up a major modernisation of the country`s military, and has lifted a cap on foreign investment in defence.

India`s defence procurement has traditionally been an opaque business, marred by postponements and repeated re-negotiations over cost.

AFP

 

[halloweene]

In another article it is wuoted 25 millions (HT i think)... Doubt the Air Chief Marshal DID pronounce the words 22 billions while it is still under negociations... That's a prob with some journalists mixing quotes and their opinion/facts.

 

[Zebra]

Defence News - IAF can't afford delay in Rafale deal : IAF Chief

 

[ersakthivel]

Defence News - IAF can't afford delay in Rafale deal : IAF Chief

Chief says we should not even think about the reported 20000 crore discount offered by TYPHOON, which was also a shortlisted contender.

Who will face parliament , if details leak out later alleging that Modi govt bought rafale at a higher cost even after EADS offering 20000 crore discount?

And chief does not want to retire earlier . So interesting time ahead.

Why IAF which was silent on rafale as long as UPA was in power , showing panting urgency even before the new govt familiarizes itself with the MMRCA contract?

 

[Zebra]

Chief says we should not even think about the reported 20000 crore discount offered by TYPHOON, which was also a shortlisted contender.

Who will face parliament , if details leak out later alleging that Modi govt bought rafale at a higher cost even after EADS offering 20000 crore discount?

And chief does not want to retire earlier . So interesting time ahead.

Why IAF which was silent on rafale as long as UPA was in power , showing panting urgency even before the new govt familiarizes itself with the MMRCA contract?

Better cancel the MRCA mess created by UPA.

 

[power_monger]

Ukraine crisis: France halts warship delivery to Russia

This shows how trust worthy france is.Need to be double carefull in this deal. i mean if French deny support,then India can have complete rights over IP rights of the aircraft.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

Damn Good Story about Rafale's plan to strike Assad's Chemical Stockpiles



Look If we have a Squad of Rafale with Storm Shadow's or Brahmos mini can do massive damage to Pakistan

thanks for the Story Olybrius

A year ago, on the night of August 31 to September 1, 2013,
France was preparing to lead a raid against the regime of Bashar
al-Assad after the chemical attack on August 21. The raid was
cancelled a few hours before the take-off, following Obama's
decision to suspend the strike. We understand that the raid
mobilized no less than 17 aircraft: 8 Rafale armed with Scalp
cruise missiles, 2 Mirage 2000-5 for escort, 2 AWACS aircraft and
no less than 5 tankers.[...] The raid was to destroy 12 targets with
missiles fired from a safe distance. It was planned as a strategic
long-range strikes, aircraft taking off and returning to France

Il y a un an, 17 avions français devaient effectuer un raid contre la Syrie | L'Opinion

and China Yes Couple of Squads Makes kick Chinese A$$ Too hard

@Drsomnath999 @p2prada @halloweene Sir

 

[Defcon 1]

.

Damn Good Story about Rafale's plan to strike Assad's Chemical Stockpiles



Look If we have a Squad of Rafale with Storm Shadow's or Brahmos mini can do massive damage to Pakistan

thanks for the Story Olybrius



Il y a un an, 17 avions français devaient effectuer un raid contre la Syrie | L'Opinion

and China Yes Couple of Squads Makes kick Chinese A$$ Too hard

@Drsomnath999 @p2prada @halloweene Sir

Good story. However it also makes you realize the importance of stealth. 8 Rafales were accompanied by 2 Mirages, 2 AWACS, and an unknown number of US EW aircraft, which were probably EA18 growlers. A steath aircraft wouldn't have required such a support contingent, and hence operational costs would have been lesser. This was the major argument in favor of stealth.

 

[p2prada]

Good story. However it also makes you realize the importance of stealth. 8 Rafales were accompanied by 2 Mirages, 2 AWACS, and an unknown number of US EW aircraft, which were probably EA18 growlers. A steath aircraft wouldn't have required such a support contingent, and hence operational costs would have been lesser. This was the major argument in favor of stealth.

The French did not rely on Growlers and no stealth fighters today can carry something like the SCALP in internal bays. I don't know about PAKFA, but the F-22 and the F-35 do not. So, stealth is mostly negated in such a scenario.

 

[SajeevJino]

Good story. However it also makes you realize the importance of stealth. 8 Rafales were accompanied by 2 Mirages, 2 AWACS, and an unknown number of US EW aircraft, which were probably EA18 growlers. A steath aircraft wouldn't have required such a support contingent, and hence operational costs would have been lesser. This was the major argument in favor of stealth.

No US fighters or EW Planes Required

8 Rafale
2 Mirage 2000-5
2 French E 3
5 Air Refuel Plane

to carry out Strike From French Mainland and Return Safely to French Main Land

it's indicates about the AEWCS and Tankers Importance for Such long range Strike

 

[Defcon 1]

The French did not rely on Growlers and no stealth fighters today can carry something like the SCALP in internal bays. I don't know about PAKFA, but the F-22 and the F-35 do not. So, stealth is mostly negated in such a scenario.

That won't matter. F35 will still be more stealthy than B2 in strike missions. That was one of the major arguments for cancelling 2018 bomber. Anyways, I was talking about stealth aircraft in general. E.g. advantages of using F117 over F16 for strike.

Btw, its written in the article that its likely that American planes provided support for electronic warfare, which plane would they use other than the Growler?

 

[Defcon 1]

No US fighters or EW Planes Required

8 Rafale
2 Mirage 2000-5
2 French E 3
5 Air Refuel Plane

to carry out Strike From French Mainland and Return Safely to French Main Land

it's indicates about the AEWCS and Tankers Importance for Such long range Strike

A stealth aircraft won't have required any support aircraft other than tankers.