Know Your 'Rafale'

johnj

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wtf they want full ownership of the Indian plant
Zero tech transfer. They are not interested in sharing tech in the first place.
In MMRCA only Sweden and Russia offered tech transfer, rest just assembly, with screw driver usage tech, and another point is, Boeing need additional permission to sell APG 79 to India, and Growler , like F 35 not offered to India.
Countries shared tech/jv/supported India - Russia, Israel and Italy.
 

blackleaf

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Zero tech transfer. They are not interested in sharing tech in the first place.
In MMRCA only Sweden and Russia offered tech transfer, rest just assembly, with screw driver usage tech, and another point is, Boeing need additional permission to sell APG 79 to India, and Growler , like F 35 not offered to India.
Countries shared tech/jv/supported India - Russia, Israel and Italy.
Does India need any tech transfers for a 4th generation fighter like the Rafale?
I understand needing help in areas like jet engines but India should have developed all the other technologies needed to make a 4th gen fighter in the Tejas program.
What would probably be more important is getting the source codes to allow integration of indigenous weapons and to manufacture spares/have maintenance facilities in the country so that India would be able to keep the jets flying for some time in a war without having to rely on France.
 

johnj

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Does India need any tech transfers for a 4th generation fighter like the Rafale?
I understand needing help in areas like jet engines but India should have developed all the other technologies needed to make a 4th gen fighter in the Tejas program.
What would probably be more important is getting the source codes to allow integration of indigenous weapons and to manufacture spares/have maintenance facilities in the country so that India would be able to keep the jets flying for some time in a war without having to rely on France.
Yes, India need 4th gen tech including engine, source codes, know why, data on target etc, and No one give such techs and infp.
Rafale is not a 4 gen, but 4.5 gen, and we need 4.5 gen teh, not 4th gen. Maintenance facilities comes with large order. Manufacture spares, need agreements. MRO is expensive for low no.of jets and need certifications and not a big tech transfer thing.
LCA mk1 series is 4/4+gen, LCA mk2 4.5 gen, which is under development and Rafale is 4.5 gen, and Mirage 2k is 4th gen, and HAL upgrading them using French tech, and 1 Rafale is equivalent of 3 m2k.
 

BON PLAN

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Anybody knows about the status of 36th rafale? It was meant to arrive by now. It was meant to have India specific enhancement. No update since February.
Thanks in advance.
Seems that 35 are delivered and the next one (in fact the N°1 in the production line) remains in France for last complete weapon system tests to comply with the 100% indian specifications.
 

Wisemarko

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French navy eyeing US progress in unmanned, ‘data-centric’ operations
Megan EcksteinJun 24, 11:21 AM
Defense News

WASHINGTON — The French navy is assessing what it can learn from U.S. advances in “data-centric operations” and cloud technologies, its chief told reporters Friday following a week of travel in the United States.

Adm. Pierre Vandier spoke June 24 at the Washington Navy Yard about the need to be interoperable and interchangeable with the U.S. Navy as they partner in four oceans and all domains.

He said he spent the week in California, with an itinerary designed by U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday to show off future technologies and concepts of operations the French Navy could incorporate into its own modernization plans.

Vandier said he visited destroyer Zumwalt, the unmanned surface vessel squadron, industry in Silicon Valley and more. With European defense budgets back on the rise, he said, he has important decisions to make about the future navy.

“The main advance I think the U.S. has is in IT,” he said. “This is something I think Europe is late on, and we need to make a good choice in the future to be interoperable in managing huge amounts of data.”

He noted Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has urged the U.S. Navy to collaborate with close partners on information-sharing and technology transfer opportunities One good example of that, Gilday added, would be learning to operate the U.S. F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets and the vast quantity of data they collect with the French navy’s fourth-generation Dassault Rafale fighters. 😂

French way of admitting "we are way too behind.."
 

SARTHAK

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Basically, a portion of air flow is redirected not through the engine, but around it. It then cools the engine itself, and exits through an area between inner and outer nozzle. This helps both dissipate the hot exhaust by mixing it with cooler air and also cool down the outer nozzle / isolate it from the hot exhaust.
can u please share any official document or any source which says m88 has secondary cooling channel?
 

WolfPack86

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HAL BACK ON RAFALE RADAR, TALKS ON FOR MAKING JETS IN INDIA
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited have worked most recently on $2.1 b deal to upgrade IAF’s Mirage 2000 fleet. General Rawat has spoken of staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to ensure that allocated funds can cover the price


by Manu Pubby

NEW DELHI:
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are in talks for possible cooperation in producing Rafale fighter jets in India for additional anticipated orders under a ‘staggered procurement’ plan.

Sources have told Economic Times that a few rounds of discussions have taken place between the companies on possible work share for additional orders of the cutting edge combat jet, though there is no going back to earlier discussions that broke down in 2012 over differences in localisation and pricing.

The two aviation companies are old partners, having worked most recently on the $2.1 billion deal to upgrade the Indian Air Force’s Mirage 2000 fleet. If additional orders are placed for Rafale — Chief of Defence Staff Gen Bipin Rawat hinted recently that 36 more fighter jets could be ordered within four years — a work share model could be worked out to manufacture parts for the fighter jet at HAL facilities.

At present, French manufacturers are executing the order for 36 jets and investing 50% of the €7.8 billion contract price in the Indian aerospace and defence sectors as part of the offsets clause, with a factory in partnership with Reliance Defence at Nagpur also geared to produce the Falcon executive jets.



While the contours of a possible partnership have not been finalised, sources confirmed that detailed discussions have taken place on how HAL facilities and expertise could be used for the next round of localisation when more jets are ordered.

In several comments over the past weeks, General Rawat has spoken of staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to ensure that allocated funds can cover the price. The top officer also suggested that 36 more Rafales could be ordered in three to four years to make up for gaps in fighter squadron strength.

The current batch of Rafales on order are following the ‘staggered payments’ model, with India paying for 11 fighter jets every year till deliveries end. If the contract is extended, the staggered procurement could stretch over the next few years to make up for fighter shortages.

As reported by ET, an offer is on the table for the sale of two more squadrons, which means 36 additional Rafale jets, for the IAF. While the deal for 36 Rafale jets signed in 2016 cost €7.87 billion, the additional 36 aircraft could cost significantly lower at around €6 billion as fixed costs covering India specific enhancements, training equipment and infrastructure have already been made.

The two airbases that are being created for the Rafales on order are capable of absorbing additional jets without any change, which would also bring down the cost of the deal. If the Rafale jet deal is extended with the ‘staggered order approach’ it could lead to a rethink on earlier plans of acquiring 110 fighter jets under the Strategic Partnership (SP) model that requires an Indian company to tie up with a foreign collaborates to produce the aircraft domestically.
 

BON PLAN

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HAL BACK ON RAFALE RADAR, TALKS ON FOR MAKING JETS IN INDIA
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited have worked most recently on $2.1 b deal to upgrade IAF’s Mirage 2000 fleet. General Rawat has spoken of staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to ensure that allocated funds can cover the price


by Manu Pubby

NEW DELHI:
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are in talks for possible cooperation in producing Rafale fighter jets in India for additional anticipated orders under a ‘staggered procurement’ plan.

Sources have told Economic Times that a few rounds of discussions have taken place between the companies on possible work share for additional orders of the cutting edge combat jet, though there is no going back to earlier discussions that broke down in 2012 over differences in localisation and pricing.

The two aviation companies are old partners, having worked most recently on the $2.1 billion deal to upgrade the Indian Air Force’s Mirage 2000 fleet. If additional orders are placed for Rafale — Chief of Defence Staff Gen Bipin Rawat hinted recently that 36 more fighter jets could be ordered within four years — a work share model could be worked out to manufacture parts for the fighter jet at HAL facilities.

At present, French manufacturers are executing the order for 36 jets and investing 50% of the €7.8 billion contract price in the Indian aerospace and defence sectors as part of the offsets clause, with a factory in partnership with Reliance Defence at Nagpur also geared to produce the Falcon executive jets.



While the contours of a possible partnership have not been finalised, sources confirmed that detailed discussions have taken place on how HAL facilities and expertise could be used for the next round of localisation when more jets are ordered.

In several comments over the past weeks, General Rawat has spoken of staggered purchases of fighter jets in the future, his idea being that small batches would be ordered to ensure that allocated funds can cover the price. The top officer also suggested that 36 more Rafales could be ordered in three to four years to make up for gaps in fighter squadron strength.

The current batch of Rafales on order are following the ‘staggered payments’ model, with India paying for 11 fighter jets every year till deliveries end. If the contract is extended, the staggered procurement could stretch over the next few years to make up for fighter shortages.

As reported by ET, an offer is on the table for the sale of two more squadrons, which means 36 additional Rafale jets, for the IAF. While the deal for 36 Rafale jets signed in 2016 cost €7.87 billion, the additional 36 aircraft could cost significantly lower at around €6 billion as fixed costs covering India specific enhancements, training equipment and infrastructure have already been made.

The two airbases that are being created for the Rafales on order are capable of absorbing additional jets without any change, which would also bring down the cost of the deal. If the Rafale jet deal is extended with the ‘staggered order approach’ it could lead to a rethink on earlier plans of acquiring 110 fighter jets under the Strategic Partnership (SP) model that requires an Indian company to tie up with a foreign collaborates to produce the aircraft domestically.
old news now....
 

WolfPack86

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French Safran to set-up engine MRO in India, offers to partner AMCA project
  • The French aircraft engine major Safran is all set to announce MRO for commercial engines in India tomorrow with military engines as a next step. The company has also offered to co-develop 110 KN thrust military engines with DRDO for its twin engine fighter project.

French aircraft engine major Safran is all set to announce a maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility for leading edge aviation propulsion (LEAP) commercial aircraft engines in India as part of its offset commitments. The MRO facility, said to be based either in Hyderabad or Bengaluru, will apparently be announced tomorrow when Safran CEO Olivier Andres meets Indian Civil Aviation Minister Jyotiraditya Scindia.

The MRO state-of-the-art facility will be set up through a 100 per cent Indian subsidiary route that will not only service some 330 engines used by Indian commercial carriers but also Safran-GE joint venture engines from other countries in South Asia, West Asia, and Africa. For the facility, SAFRAN is bringing in USD 150 million foreign direct investment with plans of moving into MRO of military engines used in Indian Air Force Rafale and Mirage 2000 fighters in the future to push the “Atmanirbhar Bharat” initiative. The French company is the supplier of M88 engines for IAF’s recently acquired 26 Rafale multi-role fighters and is also the number one helicopter engine supplier to India.

Apart from the MRO facility, the French company has also submitted a proposal to the Indian government to co-develop with DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) a new state-of-the-art 110 kilo newton thrust engine for India’s futuristic advanced medium combat aircraft twin-engine AMCA fighter project. The cost per engine for 400 engines will work out to 10-12 million euros, which is what we pay for engines today, said a defence expert. That will be for 400 engines, which is what we would need for twin engine AMCAs if we have 6-7 squadrons. Will probably need more, the expert added.
 

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