Kaveri Engine

Spitfire9

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Juat some article I found on Researchgate
Written 2009...

Kaveri Engine
With the aid of all advanced tools, GTRE has successfully
designed the Kaveri engine, Fig.26, and achieved the
design goals.

Conclusions
The know-how acquired by GTRE over the last 25
years with tests and numerical modeling of the gas turbine
components is presented. With the sophisticated CFD,
thermal and structural tools along with the rig and engine
test bed measurements, GTRE is able to design, and develop
the advanced Gas Turbine Engine.

Mmmm...
 

Whitecollar

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Written 2009...

Kaveri Engine
With the aid of all advanced tools, GTRE has successfully
designed the Kaveri engine, Fig.26, and achieved the
design goals.

Conclusions
The know-how acquired by GTRE over the last 25
years with tests and numerical modeling of the gas turbine
components is presented. With the sophisticated CFD,
thermal and structural tools along with the rig and engine
test bed measurements, GTRE is able to design, and develop
the advanced Gas Turbine Engine.

Mmmm...
So basically there's nothing that we criticize GTRE team of hasn't been known or researched by them. Still the project's achievements have been hush hush till now.

What really confuses me is that in 2017, Kaveri was proposed as a Gas Turbine system for power generation in an Indian Railways project.
 

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Whitecollar

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The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.
Are they gonna test it again using modified afterburner?
 

Spitfire9

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The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.
This is a bit like me successfully turning up for an exam. I succeeded! Unfortunately when my paper was marked, I had failed the exam.
 

THESIS THORON

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Sorry, my error. That is astonishly quick. Does that mean the Kaveri for the Ghatak is ready and can go into production or have the tests just demonstrated performance in the air meets targets?
I am also asking the same thing, only one test will be done or other test are remaining.
 

Super Flanker

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The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.
I have my doubts with regards To This Report. What is the Authenticity of it. It's better That we wait for Further confirmation, as of now ,I don't accept this as a Real report to say the least. I would want to see more Reports on This from Multiple Sources than I will accept it and see about it. Anyways let's hope for the best for Kaveri.
 

Super Flanker

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The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.
There are many reports which State that kaveri engine has passed it's trials successfully from multiple years.
for example this Report below is from the year 2011! That's 10 years ago! Like @FalconSlayers had mentioned that a similar report had been released 10 years ago.
This is From a Different year.
So I will wait for Official confirmation from Some more Sources and than I will believe it. Good day
 

Tridev123

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Switched from IAF news and discussion...


If developing an engine for AMCA is urgent, how much GTRE input can contribute is governed by a 2030 timeline for a certified engine, isn't it? It would not help if GTRE involvement delayed development due to inadequate GTRE knowhow.

One thing is pretty much certain to me: if Kaveri had been funded over the years on more than a shoestring budget, GTRE would have developed more knowhow by now. Still, we are where we are.

Why not be realistic and accept that GTRE needs more knowhow to get a Kaveri 80kN engine finished and certified or to make a sizeable contribution to a new JV engine? At the very least annual funding for Kaveri should be substantially increased IMO so that whatever progress made will be made faster.
I had stated quite some time ago that concentrating all research on high performance turbofan engines in a single institution is not the best strategy. Ideally at least one centre in the private sector (in engineering strong companies like L&T, Bharat Forge or even the Tatas) should have been short listed for turbofan engine research. And probably a third centre in IISc or one of the IIT's.

Yes, it is true that even now no private sector company has the technical expertise to independently conduct research on aero engines. But the Government is also at fault. By not nominating any private sector company to start assembly of imported aero engines they did not allow the private sector to take even baby steps to acquire jet engine technologies. Only HAL was permitted to assemble Russian jet engines.

If is not my argument to say that assembling is equal to designing and manufacturing aero engines but if L&T had been assembling the AL31 FP engines from at least a decade or two ago it would have gained some knowledge on the basic configuration of turbofan engines. They might have absorbed technology better than HAL. Assembling would have been the starting point of the eventual goal of becoming capable of independently designing an high performance turbofan.

Under the old strategy, if GTRE fails, then the nation fails. Because there is no alternative to GTRE. An obviously bad way of managing research. If money had been spent in replicating the facilities available in GTRE in the IISc and if they had been also given the mandate to realise an indigenous turbofan engine, then things may have taken an different turn. Nobody is saying that the IISc would have succeeded where the GTRE fell short. But as common sense will tell us, the chances of success might improve. The research conducted at the IISc would not be a carbon copy of the research conducted at GTRE. Different set of scientists and engineers will be working with different approaches to the problem. Probably the scientists at GTRE and IISc could have even collaborated in research.

Competition has the potential to produce better results.

Also one can ask ourselves. Did we err in setting the bar too high. Why aim for an 80 to 90 kn high thrust engine in the first attempt. Maybe the HTFE 25 class of engines should have been attempted first. Had we started on the goal of developing an reliable, flight worthy HTFE two decades ago, probably it would have been in regular production by now and would be powering our trainer aircraft. Having tasted success on the lower powered turbofan, going to the next step like the Kaveri would have been easier.

Yes, GTRE has not been fully successful in realising an reliable, high thrust turbofan engine for use on modern combat aircraft. But do we have an alternative right now.

A simple question - who should RR/Snecma collaborate with to develop an new 110kn turbofan engine for India. If not GTRE who else. The Ambanis, Tatas, Adanis or Ashok Leyland?. What experience do these companies bring to the table in the area of turbofan engine design.

Fully agree with you that we have invested peanuts in the GTRE as compared to Western standards. We do not even have a Flying Test Bed. Which is a basic necessity to certify our future indigenous engines.

Anyway let's hope for a miracle.
 

Whitecollar

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I had stated quite some time ago that concentrating all research on high performance turbofan engines in a single institution is not the best strategy. Ideally at least one centre in the private sector (in engineering strong companies like L&T, Bharat Forge or even the Tatas) should have been short listed for turbofan engine research. And probably a third centre in IISc or one of the IIT's.

Yes, it is true that even now no private sector company has the technical expertise to independently conduct research on aero engines. But the Government is also at fault. By not nominating any private sector company to start assembly of imported aero engines they did not allow the private sector to take even baby steps to acquire jet engine technologies. Only HAL was permitted to assemble Russian jet engines.

If is not my argument to say that assembling is equal to designing and manufacturing aero engines but if L&T had been assembling the AL31 FP engines from at least a decade or two ago it would have gained some knowledge on the basic configuration of turbofan engines. They might have absorbed technology better than HAL. Assembling would have been the starting point of the eventual goal of becoming capable of independently designing an high performance turbofan.

Under the old strategy, if GTRE fails, then the nation fails. Because there is no alternative to GTRE. An obviously bad way of managing research. If money had been spent in replicating the facilities available in GTRE in the IISc and if they had been also given the mandate to realise an indigenous turbofan engine, then things may have taken an different turn. Nobody is saying that the IISc would have succeeded where the GTRE fell short. But as common sense will tell us, the chances of success might improve. The research conducted at the IISc would not be a carbon copy of the research conducted at GTRE. Different set of scientists and engineers will be working with different approaches to the problem. Probably the scientists at GTRE and IISc could have even collaborated in research.

Competition has the potential to produce better results.

Also one can ask ourselves. Did we err in setting the bar too high. Why aim for an 80 to 90 kn high thrust engine in the first attempt. Maybe the HTFE 25 class of engines should have been attempted first. Had we started on the goal of developing an reliable, flight worthy HTFE two decades ago, probably it would have been in regular production by now and would be powering our trainer aircraft. Having tasted success on the lower powered turbofan, going to the next step like the Kaveri would have been easier.

Yes, GTRE has not been fully successful in realising an reliable, high thrust turbofan engine for use on modern combat aircraft. But do we have an alternative right now.

A simple question - who should RR/Snecma collaborate with to develop an new 110kn turbofan engine for India. If not GTRE who else. The Ambanis, Tatas, Adanis or Ashok Leyland?. What experience do these companies bring to the table in the area of turbofan engine design.

Fully agree with you that we have invested peanuts in the GTRE as compared to Western standards. We do not even have a Flying Test Bed. Which is a basic necessity to certify our future indigenous engines.

Anyway let's hope for a miracle.
You are right. Only point is: no private organization in India will even touch aeroengine tech as it requires billions of dollars in fund. GE, P&W, etc didn't completely invest in aero engine tech. US is known for investing heavily in defence industries.
GOI has till now never claimed that if at all a Private firm developes a capable engine on their own, they will buy it in bulk. Another thing is billions of dollars in funds which GOI will never release especially to private sector.

In short, you want private players to develop a groundbreaking engine, constantly do R&D to improve the TTL, give them no economic backing and no guarantee to buy the product once finished.
 

Haldilal

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The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.
Ya'll Nibbiars @bhramos Nibba what is this?.
 

MonaLazy

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no private organization in India will even touch aeroengine tech as it requires billions
We need the US model- where the physical assets that involve sinking huge ₹₹₹s are owned by the state and their cost is ameliorated over several successive projects, but the human resources are hired/fired by private entities- possibly competing private entities to have the best of both worlds.

The IP and profits from any resultant tech could be shared between the Govt & private enterprise.
 

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