Kaveri Engine

Dessert Storm

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AI had few old 747 iirc not sure if they are flying but pulling one out and sending it to boing for mod should be possible
Though I'm not sure they can kept for long
Excerpts:
Three of the four B747s in the Air India fleet were mainly being used for VVIP flights but last year the government procured two new updated Boeing 777s as India's version of Air Force One.

"Their residual value lies in the about 10 engines we have of these 747s that could fetch about $2 million apiece,"

Source:
 

BrigadierRPS

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We have developed some good compositions for single crystal blades. But they are not going to be tested in kaveri. Kaveri will also have a lower TIT. But it has a potential of being upgraded. Current kaveri is targeted for ghatak only.
 

Whitecollar

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We have developed some good compositions for single crystal blades. But they are not going to be tested in kaveri. Kaveri will also have a lower TIT. But it has a potential of being upgraded. Current kaveri is targeted for ghatak only.
What about the afterburner unit? No upgrades have been made yet after achieving unstabilized thrust at higher altitude?
 

Spitfire9

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We have developed some good compositions for single crystal blades. But they are not going to be tested in kaveri. Kaveri will also have a lower TIT. But it has a potential of being upgraded. Current kaveri is targeted for ghatak only.
Has India given up on a version that could be used to replace Tejas F404's when the time came for a new engine?
 

Whitecollar

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Has India given up on a version that could be used to replace Tejas F404's when the time came for a new engine?
Kaveri in it's current afterburner version(after stabilizing thrust output) can still be used in twin config to power TD ORCA or TEDBF. That will all depend on how much salvaging DRDO wants to pull out of this project. But rejecting the whole thing(apart from UCAVs) is a huge mistake as any new engine design and maturing is gonna take atleast 2 decades.
 

Spitfire9

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Kaveri in it's current afterburner version(after stabilizing thrust output) can still be used in twin config to power TD ORCA or TEDBF.
Right. Stick it on the Russian flying testbed after the Ghatak version. Or is that too likely to result in another embarrassing failure? I recall the reports from 10 years ago saying what a success the Kaveri tests were eg

The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.

"The recently conducted tests were a significant step towards operationalisation of Kaveri engine. A Russian Il-76 transporter was used as the FTB to conduct 11 successful trials totalling over 20 hours till April," Defence Research and Development Organisation spokesperson said here today.
 

Covfefe

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IMO there is no prospect of anything other than a completely foreign engine (eg GE F414+) or an engine based on foreign knowhow (RR or SAFRAN) powering AMCA Mk2.

Choosing GE will not enable India to develop its own fast jet engines. Choosing SAFRAN might. Choosing RR might. IMO India should play those two off against each other and take the deal that gets India at least very close to designing and building a passably good indigenous engine.
H1 of 2022 could see some major defence deals with France including Rafales, Subs, and the Engine.
-Covfefe nibba after swallowing 3 each pills of Hopium and caffeine
 

Whitecollar

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We need our own testbed guys. That will solve a lot of problems. Right now we have to go through a lot of diplomatic hurdles and pay a lot to ruskies. With the tiny budget GTRE cannot afford frequent testing
There's a very little problem with having our own testbed.
Boeing and Airbus will never allow us to modify the airframe structure and accomodate a test engine without their consent(pay millions of dollars).
Ruskies will demand hefty fees and deliver one of their junk decommissioned IL-76 with limited technology.

I believe only way to salvage the present Kaveri is for DRDO to think out of the box and demand for any decommissioned IAF jet with a similar dimension engine. Eg.: Mig 27 could be used as dia of tumansky engine is almost same.
Just slap an afterburner version of Kaveri over it and do ground based trials while we wait for a testbed.
 

Vivek k

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There's a very little problem with having our own testbed.
Boeing and Airbus will never allow us to modify the airframe structure and accomodate a test engine without their consent(pay millions of dollars).
Ruskies will demand hefty fees and deliver one of their junk decommissioned IL-76 with limited technology.
This is what happens when you don't have capable, domestic industry. If we were producing our own MTAs, a FTB could be easily developed. We should pay and get a FTB from whoever is ready to deliver. That would go a long way in future development.

I believe only way to salvage the present Kaveri is for DRDO to think out of the box and demand for any decommissioned IAF jet with a similar dimension engine. Eg.: Mig 27 could be used as dia of tumansky engine is almost same.
Just slap an afterburner version of Kaveri over it and do ground based trials while we wait for a testbed.
Mig-27 is/was a single engined aircraft and using it as a testbed is very risky. A Mig-29 with two engines would be a better solution - use the Kaveri/test engine in one bay and retain the RD-33 in the other. But this talk has been ongoing for a while. Nothing stops GOI from buying a Mig-29 from Russia for this purpose. Either there is no will or the Kaveri has not generated confidence.
 

Whitecollar

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Mig-27 is/was a single engined aircraft and using it as a testbed is very risky. A Mig-29 with two engines would be a better solution - use the Kaveri/test engine in one bay and retain the RD-33 in the other. But this talk has been ongoing for a while. Nothing stops GOI from buying a Mig-29 from Russia for this purpose. Either there is no will or the Kaveri has not generated confidence. [/QUOTE said:
Chinks have been using same concept as testbed since years.
images (7) (12).jpeg
 

Vivek k

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The aircraft you've posted is not a Mig-27.
1638381771712.png

The Mig-27 is a single engine aircraft. Your concept is workable. Except it will need an aircraft with 2 or more engines. One of the engine bays would serve as the test bed.

Testing a new powerplant in a single engine aircraft is typically not done unless the engine is qualified on a test bed first to check all parameters.
 

Whitecollar

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The aircraft you've posted is not a Mig-27.
View attachment 122659
The Mig-27 is a single engine aircraft. Your concept is workable. Except it will need an aircraft with 2 or more engines. One of the engine bays would serve as the test bed.

Testing a new powerplant in a single engine aircraft is typically not done unless the engine is qualified on a test bed first to check all parameters.
I just gave the Mig 27 as an example that too for taxi trials and other ground based trials. Mig 29 shall be cheap and best suitable testbed for afterburner Kaveri as both RD-33 and Kaveri share almost same specs and dimensions. But it is really upto GOI and DRDO.
As Spitfire truly said, the success of Kaveri with afterburner was covered in a 2011 news...so there's no reason why a complete engine cannot be attempted for a retrofit on one TD Mig 29 so to speak.
 

Vivek k

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There seems to be something stopping the use of the Kaveri in a Mig-29 testbed. Maybe some of the posters in the know can clarify. Qualifying a domestic engine with lower specs is nonetheless a giant leap forward. Rome is not built in a day. Maybe the Kaveri could replace the RD-33s if the dimensions are similar?
 

Spitfire9

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As Spitfire truly said, the success of Kaveri with afterburner was covered in a 2011 news...so there's no reason why a complete engine cannot be attempted for a retrofit on one TD Mig 29 so to speak.
I was making the point that the DRDO reported that tests on the Il-72 had been successful when the opposite was true.

The indigenously-built Kaveri engine for military aircraft successfully passed a series of tests on a Russian Il-76 aircraft recently using it as Flight Test Bed (FTB) at a Russian facility.

"The recently conducted tests were a significant step towards operationalisation of Kaveri engine.
I think it was not long after Kaveri 'successfully passed a series of tests' on the Il-72 that Kaveri was abandoned as the intended engine for Tejas. In other words, the engine was a failure and the tests were not 'a significant step towards operationalisation of Kaveri engine.'
 
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Kalkioftoday

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This is from from an engine integration test. China have their own flying testbed based on il-76 just like the russians. This picture is most probably from a final testing of WS15 where they are using a dual engine aircraft with only one WS15 engine and with another proven engine as fail safe measure. Flying testbed is necessary and after certifying engine performance from there they can further test it anywhere. Don't believe in some dumb BS that mig27 can replace a FTB
 

shiphone

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so called WS-15 was actually the 'AL-31' ,which means both engines in that image are the same....lol

I'm afraid none of you have seen the two different engines on a J-20.

----------
the J-11 testbed for WS-10 development in 2000s.

 

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