Kaveri Engine

[Bhurki]

The Canard weight is not the problem. It's the weight of the radar.
Canards were added to Su-30MKI (a derivative of Su-27) primarily to support the heavy weight of the new & powerful radar.

IAF regarded Su-30MKIs are a 'jugaad' and for a weird reason grew a disdain for canards. They explicitly said Su-35 or Mig-35 etc should not have canards if it ever should be marketed to IAF! As such, Su-35 compensated the fore weight in other ways.

(Interestingly the most advanced aircraft that IAF bought - Rafale - has canards!!!!)

Rafale's canards hold the dual role of working as horizontal stabilizers where as in su 30 mki they are purely there for increasing instantaneous turn rate and AoA performance. Their very placement ( out of the plane and skewed) means they were trading airframe drag efficiency for increasing dynamic capacity. In the end, it kind of became an overkill since it already a su 27 airframe with good aerodynamic instability but now also had canards with 3d vectoring thrust.. Either one of these additions would have been sufficient.. The drag penalties are actually quite massive hence the significant top speed and range difference with su 35

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Who told you that Su30 has 3D thrust vectoring? It has 2D vectoring

Rafale's canards hold the dual role of working as horizontal stabilizers where as in su 30 mki they are purely there for increasing instantaneous turn rate and AoA performance. Their very placement ( out of the plane and skewed) means they were trading airframe drag efficiency for increasing dynamic capacity. In the end, it kind of became an overkill since it already a su 27 airframe with good aerodynamic instability but now also had canards with 3d vectoring thrust.. Either one of these additions would have been sufficient.. The drag penalties are actually quite massive hence the significant top speed and range difference with su 35

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Who told you that Su30 has 3D thrust vectoring? It has 2D vectoring

Rafale's canards hold the dual role of working as horizontal stabilizers where as in su 30 mki they are purely there for increasing instantaneous turn rate and AoA performance. Their very placement ( out of the plane and skewed) means they were trading airframe drag efficiency for increasing dynamic capacity. In the end, it kind of became an overkill since it already a su 27 airframe with good aerodynamic instability but now also had canards with 3d vectoring thrust.. Either one of these additions would have been sufficient.. The drag penalties are actually quite massive hence the significant top speed and range difference with su 35

 

[Bhurki]

Who told you that Su30 has 3D thrust vectoring? It has 2D vectoring

If 2d is what the raptor does and move along a single axis.. Then mki engine gimbals around a single axis at varied angles..
The movement is along the base of a cone .. If thats not 3d , i dont know what is..
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...YqFQb64Y9DTluZGNEssUEnsyllKXicCW7oylw429TbQtO

 

[darshan978]

Who told you that Su30 has 3D thrust vectoring? It has 2D vectoring

lol go do some research or at least wiki before typing such stupid stuffs su30 has 3d vectoring.

 

[shiphone]

this old video has so called "SU30MKI/MKD'3D' TVC" or "AL-31FP 2D TVC" explained ....


for the AL-31FP engine only, it has the 2D TVC:

The TVC nozzles of the MKI are mounted 32 degrees outward to longitudinal engine axis (i.e. in the horizontal plane) and can be deflected ±15 degrees in the vertical plane.

------------------

the true 3D TVC AL-31 varient also exists which really can move the nozzle 'along the base of a cone' and the mechanisms is totally different...

 

[ersakthivel]

Rafale's canards hold the dual role of working as horizontal stabilizers where as in su 30 mki they are purely there for increasing instantaneous turn rate and AoA performance. Their very placement ( out of the plane and skewed) means they were trading airframe drag efficiency for increasing dynamic capacity. In the end, it kind of became an overkill since it already a su 27 airframe with good aerodynamic instability but now also had canards with 3d vectoring thrust.. Either one of these additions would have been sufficient.. The drag penalties are actually quite massive hence the significant top speed and range difference with su 35

Su 27 , an unstable airframe? Any source?

 

[Enquirer]

Is this thread also going to be hijacked by a moron who has absolutely no idea about basic physics or aerodynamics!!!

Increased weight in the nose of the aircraft makes it more STABLE! (this is the 101 of rocketry/aerodynamics - those who don't know it please don't start an argument with me. I am not interested)

Su-30MKI has a very heavy radar compared to Su-27. So, by basic principles Su-27 will be more unstable than Su-30MKI!!

 

[ersakthivel]

In aerodynamics stable & unstable doesn't mean nose heavy or tail heavy.


It is negative stability (Relaxed Static Stability, RSS) or positive stability , the old world CG in front of CP.


"experts" who advocated ,that 300 kG extra engine weight in tejas needs , no structural re engineering, because of 16℅ extra thrust,


Can go to the link below to learn more,

https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/v...d=788e6782db9d2125e02389b40222afad&start=2080

Just look at the quality of discussion & learn some decorum as well

 

[Enquirer]

Must one moron be allowed to continue peddling fake science and hijack the forum ???

This one nincompoop with absolutely no idea about the basics is pontificating 'new age science' like he were Richard Feynman! Anything the moron does not know is 'old science'?

Explaining anything to this moron is useless - it's like conversing with a guy in a mental asylum! He has a delusion that only he has the license to be disdainful, while the rest will worship his half baked knowledge that he seeks from quick Google searches - after the fact!

I continue to be worried for folks who fall for his nonsense, and become certified morons like him!

 

[ersakthivel]

Must one moron be allowed to continue peddling fake science and hijack the forum ???

This one nincompoop with absolutely no idea about the basics is pontificating 'new age science' like he were Richard Feynman! Anything the moron does not know is 'old science'?

Explaining anything to this moron is useless - it's like conversing with a guy in a mental asylum! He has a delusion that only he has the license to be disdainful, while the rest will worship his half baked knowledge that he seeks from quick Google searches - after the fact!

I continue to be worried for folks who fall for his nonsense, and become certified morons like him!

It seems you hv some nervous break down,


ROFL,

Just take a few days off & relax,


AFAIK Russians are yet to field a RSS negative stability fighter .

That's why I asked,

No intentions of spoiling your fun here,

Relax & Enjoy.

 

[Enquirer]

It seems you hv some nervous break down,


ROFL,

Just take a few days off & relax,


AFAIK Russians are yet to field a RSS negative stability fighter .

That's why I asked,

No intentions of spoiling your fun here,

Relax & Enjoy.

Once again the fraud of the forum strings together sentences from different websites with zero understanding of the basics!

Commercial airlines don't need maneuverability like a fighter jets, and as such they take advantage of the laws of physics and have CG fore of CP!

Fighter jets, need to be agile - able to turn around quickly and as such are intentionally made unstable.

Notice how the logic (that even that moron peddled unknowingly) corroborates my statement that Su-30MKI with heavier radar will be more stable than Su-27! But this idiot refuted that and then is bullshitting nonstop with confusing nonsense!

Only amateurs live the world where everything is one extreme or the other. Wise/Intelligent people understand the degree of an attribute!

And of course, nice joke that Russians don't know to design a fighter jet that's agile!! Or this moron thinks he's the only capable jet designer!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

Once again the fraud of the forum strings together sentences from different websites with zero understanding of the basics!

Commercial airlines don't need maneuverability like a fighter jets, and as such they take advantage of the laws of physics and have CG fore of CP!

Fighter jets, need to be agile - able to turn around quickly and as such are intentionally made unstable.

Notice how the logic (that even that moron peddled unknowingly) corroborates my statement that Su-30MKI with heavier radar will be more stable than Su-27! But this idiot refuted that and then is bullshitting nonstop with confusing nonsense!

Only amateurs live the world where everything is one extreme or the other. Wise/Intelligent people understand the degree of an attribute!

And of course, nice joke that Russians don't know to design a fighter jet that's agile!! Or this moron thinks he's the only capable jet designer!!!

I hope you won't unfurl your toilet , septic tank research here,

Good night

 

[Enquirer]

I hope you won't unfurl your toilet , septic tank research here,

Good night

I hope you'll shut your orifices and not fart on this forum!

Whoever gave you the confidence to BS on subjects you've no idea about?

On BRF there are couple of good folks, but a lot of useless chatter boxes too - but none as deranged as you are!

Frauds like you piss me off to no end!!

 

[Bhurki]

Can somebody clarify about the rumours of snecma partnership for the development of kaveri in the rafale deal, the developments of the rumour up until now or if its actually true?
If its been discussed before, please put the post #
Also i've kind of also asked for clarification on this rumour in the "Rafale" forum as a part of a larger question so please don't get triggered because of a redundant question.

 

[Enquirer]

Can somebody clarify about the rumours of snecma partnership for the development of kaveri in the rafale deal, the developments of the rumour up until now or if its actually true?
If its been discussed before, please put the post #
Also i've kind of also asked for clarification on this rumour in the "Rafale" forum as a part of a larger question so please don't get triggered because of a redundant question.

There's definitely an involvement/assistance from Snecma vis-a-vis Kaveri, as evidenced from the fact that Snecma approved/advised flights tests of Kaveri.
Not sure if it's 'partnership' or mere consultancy.

 

[Bhurki]

Is this thread also going to be hijacked by a moron who has absolutely no idea about basic physics or aerodynamics!!!

Increased weight in the nose of the aircraft makes it more STABLE! (this is the 101 of rocketry/aerodynamics - those who don't know it please don't start an argument with me. I am not interested)

Su-30MKI has a very heavy radar compared to Su-27. So, by basic principles Su-27 will be more unstable than Su-30MKI!!

I would love to be called a moron if i could learn something on the other end of it.

By inherently unstable, i meant to quote "Relaxed stability" that it is deliberately achieved to increase aerodynamic performance in rather unsuitable AoA, and also to increase the sensitivity of the airframe to different trim conditions.
Electronic systems are therefore used to maintain stability of flight regime when not manueuverability is not required.

 

[Enquirer]

I would love to be called a moron if i could learn something on the other end of it.

By inherently unstable, i meant to quote "Relaxed stability" that it is deliberately achieved to increase aerodynamic performance in rather unsuitable AoA, and also to increase the sensitivity of the airframe to different trim conditions.
Electronic systems are therefore used to maintain stability of flight regime when not manueuverability is not required.

Sure! Unlike that moron, I agree that Su-27 was built with relaxed stability.
I was further embellishing about Su-30MKI - the heavier radar makes it 'more' stable. As such maneuvering with the same thrust means encountering more drag (trimming the control surfaces). Canards will help overcome that by making is more maneuverable without large trimmings of wing/tail (as such less drag)!

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Recently AESA radar was completed. Now, the only critical thing left is Kaveri. The pace of Modi govt in defence technology development is really fast. I am expecting that by next year, the Kaveri for Tejas would be ready.

 

[ersakthivel]

Once again the fraud of the forum strings together sentences from different websites with zero understanding of the basics!

Commercial airlines don't need maneuverability like a fighter jets, and as such they take advantage of the laws of physics and have CG fore of CP!

Fighter jets, need to be agile - able to turn around quickly and as such are intentionally made unstable.

Notice how the logic (that even that moron peddled unknowingly) corroborates my statement that Su-30MKI with heavier radar will be more stable than Su-27! But this idiot refuted that and then is bullshitting nonstop with confusing nonsense!

Only amateurs live the world where everything is one extreme or the other. Wise/Intelligent people understand the degree of an attribute!

And of course, nice joke that Russians don't know to design a fighter jet that's agile!! Or this moron thinks he's the only capable jet designer!!!

Yo mud headed expert,

Read the following,

Before starting your ,"fortune telling",

"Combined with relatively low wing loading and powerful basic flight controls, it makes for an exceptionally agile aircraft, controllable even at very low speeds and high angle of attack. "

You hv been yelling from the roof top that,

LOW WINGLOADING is some insignificant spec.

Correct your lying ways, before calling others fraud.





The Su-27's basic design is aerodynamically similar to the MiG-29, but it is substantially larger. The wing blends into the fuselage at the leading edge extensions and is essentially a cross between a swept wing and a cropped delta (the delta wing with tips cropped for missile rails or ECM pods). The fighter is also an example of a tailed delta wing configuration, retaining conventional horizontal tailplanes.

The Su-27 had the Soviet Union's first operational fly-by-wire control system, based on the Sukhoi OKB's experience with the T-4 bomber project. Combined with relatively low wing loading and powerful basic flight controls, it makes for an exceptionally agile aircraft, controllable even at very low speeds and high angle of attack. In airshows the aircraft has demonstrated its maneuverability with a Cobra(Pugachev’s Cobra) or dynamic deceleration – briefly sustained level flight at a 120° angle of attack