Kaaba Inside

maomao

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The "logic" Muslims use to "prove" this is nonsense actually.

(1)The center of a sphere cannot be on its surface. So, neither Kaaba nor any other place *on* earth can be its center.

(2)Then Muslims claim that Kaaba is the "golden ratio" point on earth. That claim too has been debunked here.
Debunked: Makkah The Miraculous Golden Ratio City The Secret Of Kaaba - YouTube

(3)Depending on which way you hold a map and which latitude/longitude one starts with as reference point, nearly every point on earth can be proven to be the "golden ratio" point.

Note: Not my explanation, I found it on a Hindu Forum!
 

pmaitra

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When you consider only the poles, there can be infinite ( to be precise, two horizontal planes, equidistant from the equator, each consisting of infinite ) number of Golden Ratio Points (GRP), but when you also consider the International date line then the number of points are reduced to four.
Thank for the clarification.

But what people forget or ignore is that the international date line is completely human made, and has no geographic significance, and that it was invented much later than Kaaba or whatever.
The IDL is man-made, but it follows a logic that is natural. The IDL was chosen to cut through the largest chunk of the earth's surface so as not to cut across contiguous land masses, as much as possible. The best choice, therefore, was across the Pacific Ocean, which is not man-made.

P.S.: Minor adjustments were made at certain points, but largely, it is a straight line.
 

ani82v

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When you consider only the poles, there can be infinite ( to be precise, two horizontal planes, equidistant from the equator, each consisting of infinite ) number of Golden Ratio Points (GRP), but when you also consider the International date line then the number of points are reduced to four.
Does that mean a vertical plane crossing thru IDL from one side of the Earth, will cross thru Kaaba at the other side? Only then I can visualize 4 points with Kaaba being one of them.
 

Razor

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The IDL is man-made, but it follows a logic that is natural. The IDL was chosen to cut through the largest chunk of the earth's surface so as not to cut across contiguous land masses, as much as possible. The best choice, therefore, was across the Pacific Ocean, which is not man-made.

P.S.: Minor adjustments were made at certain points, but largely, it is a straight line.
The choice of IDL is one of convenience and hence natural for human activities. So it is a natural choice for humans, but not of any geographic or Earthly significance.


Note the fact that the IDL (black line in above pic) can not really be called a line.

Also the IDL was introduced way after the Kaaba was constructed.
 
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Razor

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Does that mean a vertical plane crossing thru IDL from one side of the Earth, will cross thru Kaaba at the other side? Only then I can visualize 4 points with Kaaba being one of them.
No, dude. As far as calculation of GRP wrt to IDL is concerned, it is better to imagine a map rather than a globe. This is another reason why this 'miracle' doesn't seem natural.

Maybe this pic will give you an idea of the four GRPs of a map. Superimposing this on a map will give you the four GRPs of the map.

The above pic assumes that the IDL is a straight line, which of course it isn't.
 

ani82v

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Ok. Now I get it. It is at one of the for golden points which photographers usually use for shooting. And since IDL goes thru pacific, hence the map is such that Mecca happens to fall on one of them. Right?

But looking at this map, it looks more centerish rather than falling on one of them.



No, dude. As far as calculation of GRP wrt to IDL is concerned, it is better to imagine a map rather than a globe. This is another reason why this 'miracle' doesn't seem natural.

Maybe this pic will give you an idea of the four GRPs of a map. Superimposing this on a map will give you the four GRPs of the map.

The above pic assumes that the IDL is a straight line, which of course it isn't.
 

Cliff@sea

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TBH i find this claim of mecca falling on one of the Golden points a silly Hogwash . . .Just as many other Islamist Claims . . .

Ultimately it depends on where you look at the World from . . .
 

Razor

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Ok. Now I get it. It is at one of the for golden points which photographers usually use for shooting.
Did not know about that, must read up.

And since IDL goes thru pacific, hence the map is such that Mecca happens to fall on one of them. Right?

But looking at this map, it looks more centerish rather than falling on one of them.

I guess different projections of the globe give different appearances.
I have no interest in finding out whether the Kaaba actually lies on the GRP, because to me it's immaterial. It's the usual religious BS of weaving stories around facts or distorting facts.
 

pmaitra

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Ok. Now I get it. It is at one of the for golden points which photographers usually use for shooting. And since IDL goes thru pacific, hence the map is such that Mecca happens to fall on one of them. Right?

But looking at this map, it looks more centerish rather than falling on one of them.

Did not know about that, must read up.



I guess different projections of the globe give different appearances.
I have no interest in finding out whether the Kaaba actually lies on the GRP, because to me it's immaterial. It's the usual religious BS of weaving stories around facts or distorting facts.
Guys, we had discussed this earlier as well: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...outside-hindu-temple-india-10.html#post496766
 

ani82v

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This appears to be more of a wishful thinking and a hoax. One of the many peddled by likes of Zakir Naik and Humza.

These kind of silly claims attract more cynicism to Islam than admiration.

It is a holy place as a matter of faith and remain that way, wishful thinking notwithstanding.
 

ani82v

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Hindus believe there is a black stone inside which is a Shivalinga...
There are those who claim Kaaba is a pagan temple. a Moon worshippers temple. and guess whom moon god is? Hindu god Shiva.
Not all Hindus.

Kaaba = Shiva; Abraham = Brahman; blah blah blah, I've heard that before. Sorry, this Hindu doesn't buy that.
This is another wishful thinking. There is no proof that the pagan following in Mecca had any religious affiliations with Hinduism, though there were some pre-Islamic Arab communities which were involved in spice trade with India.
But what is known for sure that there WAS a pagan following there and after Islam all the traces of such following were exterminated as they were considered threat to new religion.

The early Arabian population consisted primarily of warring nomadic tribes. When they did converge peacefully, it was usually under the protection of religious practices.[20] Writing in the Encyclopedia of Islam, Wensinck identifies Mecca with a place called Macoraba mentioned by Ptolemy. His text is believed to date from the second century AD, about 400 years before the coming of Muhammad,[21] and described it as a foundation in southern Arabia, built around a sanctuary. It probably did not become an area of religious pilgrimage until around 500 A.D. It was then that the Quraysh tribe (into which Muhammad was later born) took control of Macoraba, and made an agreement with the local kinanah Bedouins for possession.[22] The sanctuary itself, located in a barren valley surrounded by mountains, was probably built at the location of the water source today known as the Zamzam Well, an area of considerable religious significance to Muslims.

In her book, Islam: A Short History, Karen Armstrong asserts that the Kaaba was dedicated to Hubal, a Nabatean deity, and contained 360 idols that either represented the days of the year,[23] or were effigies of the Arabian pantheon. Once a year, tribes from all around the Arabian peninsula, whether Christian or pagan, would converge on Mecca to perform the Hajj.

Imoti[24] contends that there were multiple such "Kaaba" sanctuaries in Arabia at one time, but this was the only one built of stone. The others also allegedly had counterparts of the Black Stone. There was a "red stone", the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and the "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Grunebaum in Classical Islam points out that the experience of divinity of that period was often associated with stone fetishes, mountains, special rock formations, or "trees of strange growth."[25] The Kaaba was thought to be at the center of the world with the Gate of Heaven directly above it. The Kaaba marked the location where the sacred world intersected with the profane, and the embedded Black Stone was a further symbol of this as a meteorite that had fallen from the sky and linked heaven and earth.[26]

According to Sarwar,[27] about 400 years before the birth of Muhammad, a man named "Amr bin Lahyo bin Harath bin Amr ul-Qais bin Thalaba bin Azd bin Khalan bin Babalyun bin Saba", who was descended from Qahtan and king of Hijaz (the northwestern section of Saudi Arabia, which encompassed the cities of Mecca and Medina), had placed a Hubal idol onto the roof of the Kaaba, and this idol was one of the chief deities of the ruling Quraysh. The idol was made of red agate, and shaped like a human, but with the right hand broken off and replaced with a golden hand. When the idol was moved inside the Kaaba, it had seven arrows in front of it, which were used for divination.[citation needed]

Votive stele with Sabaean inscription adressed to the moon-god Almaqah, mentioning five South Arabian gods, two reigning sovereigns and two governors.

A Griffon from the royal palace at shabwa, the capital city of the kingdom of en:Hadhramaut in Yemen.

Statue of Ammaalay, 1st century BCE, Yemen
Notice the script at the bottom, looks like IVC script.:troll:

Same goes for poetry. In the pre-Arabic times.

Among the most famous poets of the pre-Islamic era are Imru' al-Qais, Samaw'al ibn 'Adiya, al-Nabighah al-Dhubyani, Tarafah ibn al 'Abd, and Zuhayr ibn Abî Sûlmâ. Other poets, such as Ta'abbata Sharran, al-Shanfara, 'Urwah ibn al-Ward, were known as su'luk or vagabond poets, much of whose works consisted of attacks on the rigidity of tribal life and praise of solitude.

The very best of these early poems were collected in the 8th century as the Mu'allaqat meaning "the hung poems" (because they were hung on or in the Kaaba) and the Mufaddaliyat meaning al-Mufaddal's examination or anthology.

These early poems were to some extent considered a threat to the newly emerging faith of Islam and if not actually suppressed, fell into disuse for some years. The sha'ir and their pronouncements were too closely associated with the religion practiced before Islam, and the role of the poet was singled out for criticism in the Qur'an. They also praised subjects of dubious merit such as wine, sex and gambling, which clashed with the new ideology.
[/QUOTE]

Here is another Kaaba of Zoraster:

This white Kaaba is more like War/Royal Memorial which survived the onslaught of time. But there one more Kaaba too in Tabala near Mecca
The Semitic cultures of the Middle East had a tradition of using unusual stones to mark places of worship, a phenomenon which is reflected in the Hebrew Bible as well as the Qur'an.[9] A "red stone" was associated with the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and there was a "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Worship at that time period was often associated with stone reverence, mountains, special rock formations, or distinctive trees.[10] The Kaaba marked the location where the sacred world intersected with the profane, and the embedded Black Stone was a further symbol of this as an object that linked heaven and earth.[11]
 

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