Just Who Is Not A Kafir?

[DaRk WaVe]

there are some questions in the religious theology which are just out of every one's understanding, God's just too supreme to make sense to his creation...

e.g.

Islam tells its followers not to trust the Jews and Christians for they are the truest enemies and can never be their friends but it is allowed for Muslim Men to marry Jewish and Christian women

How come one cannot be friends with spouse? "Is it a divinely directed sit-com"?

& on the other hand Muslim women cannot marry any Christian or Jew

 

[Vinod2070]

there are some questions in the religious theology which are just out of every one's understanding, God's just too supreme to make sense to his creation...

e.g.

Islam tells its followers not to trust the Jews and Christians for they are the truest enemies and can never be their friends but it is allowed for Muslim Men to marry Jewish and Christian women

How come one cannot be friends with his own spouse? "Is it a divinely directed sit-com"?

& on the other hand Muslim women cannot marry any Christian or Jew

Obviously there are some "practical and pragmatic reasons" for all this, based on human psychology etc.

 

[Zaki]

who defines this, is it stated somewhere or is it some interpretation of a cleric/scholar?


ejazr,

i had this question for quite some time. why do rajputs who took to islam still associate with their hindu past by calling themselves as muslim rajputs and have not changed their surnames and when they do that dont they still believe in caste system and can such people be really treated as muslims, and since they cling on to their past of rajputs do they in any other way also associate with any other hindu identities?

Cast or name does not effect your religious obligations. Mr David can be far better Muslim than Muhammad Hussain. It is not important to change your cast from Rajput to something more islamic. In fact cast has nothing to do with Islam. It is your intentions that matters the most. Cast is just a way of identity we usually use in indian subcontinent, nothing to do with religion

 

[Zaki]

there are some questions in the religious theology which are just out of every one's understanding, God's just too supreme to make sense to his creation...

e.g.

Islam tells its followers not to trust the Jews and Christians for they are the truest enemies and can never be their friends but it is allowed for Muslim Men to marry Jewish and Christian women

How come one cannot be friends with spouse? "Is it a divinely directed sit-com"?

& on the other hand Muslim women cannot marry any Christian or Jew

i can reply to this question but i don't want to confuse you further. I think you need break from religious discussions (now don't say who am i to decide this lol)

 

[DaRk WaVe]

i can reply to this question but i don't want to confuse you further. I think you need break from religious discussions (now don't say who am i to decide this lol)

Ohh you can't thats beyond you, Its word of God no one must challenge it, accept it as it is or your going to hell like me

 

[Zaki]

Ohh you can't thats beyond you, Its word of God no one must challenge it, accept it as it is or your going to hell like me

Would love to accompany you anywhere my love

But in this post i can only say, if you do not understand something does not mean it is wrong. Some people takes little extra time to catch up the meaning of something. I guess you should take some rest and we'll discuss religion some other time

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Would love to accompany you anywhere my love

But in this post i can only say, if you do not understand something does not mean it is wrong. Some people takes little extra time to catch up the meaning of something. I guess you should take some rest and we'll discuss religion some other time

Your Highness I just responded to Vinod's Marriage post, Just calm down but on the other hand the title itself is 'religious' lol

 

[MadMax]

Lol for one sec I thought this was pdf.

 

[Yusuf]

By calling other muslims Kafirs, it wont change any fact that other muslims are well muslims.. May be it will help us in a better way by calling as Kafirs. At least then we wont have to go around saying "My name is Khan and i am not a terrorist" and we know who is who. That saves 80% of the muslims from the trouble of being called an extremist or terrorist. I am sure there would be a big percentage in that remaining 20% who will not be extremist minded. Hopefully.
Calling someone something wont change any fact.

 

[ejazr]

Explain!!!

Wrong, last time i heard all of their big guns were Pushtoons, Punjabi Taliban is a wholly different breed or should i say they are more sectarian people

Heads of the same monster, I can't believe that even Indians make distinctions b/w AT & TTP :emot100:

Its not about making distinctions about good and bad taliban. I think its foolish to look at things in black and white when there are shades of grey. I don't have any sympathy for either of these groups but the truth is that they are really different.

AT is is predominantly an army made up of illiterate or semi-literate rural pashtoon farmers and labourers. They are largely non-ideological and non-radical. They fight for a range of reasons which have little, if anything, to do with a political Islamic ideology except for their core group i.e. the Mulla Omar and assorted leaders. They mainly look at themselves as fighting the invaders and themselves as resistance fighters similar to fighting the USSR. Ofcourse I agree that there is a the core Taliban that were running Afghanistan that follow the political Islamic ideology and a deviant and intolerant system, but the current AT has the makeup as I explained above.


On the other hand, the Pakistani Taliban is much more radicalised and much more dangerous. They have groomed a strong youth element, drawn from young Pashtuns who have been brainwashed in madrassas of FATA (I would rather call them militant training camps which were used against Soviets as they don't follow traditional madrassa curriculum) and are the foot soldiers of this group.

Moreover, TTP has a strong infusion of Kashmir centric militant groups and secretarian groups that were at one time trained by the ISI/PA. These consists of mainly Punjabi and Kashmiris. They tend to decide the tactics and strategies. Then there have been an addition of Arab AQ members that have poured in the money and ideological inspirations. Suicide bombings is almost exclusively the TTP domain as well. Even the suicide attacks in Afghanistan that started about 3 years ago were done by recruits trained by the TTP. It may be ironic but the first case of suicide bombings in south asia was in Kashmir against Indian army by Pakistani based groups. These groups have now turned suicide bombing into an industry even though this has been explicitly declared haram even in Jihad by conservative Ulemas like from Deoband and including ulemas from the much maligned Wahabbi school of thought.

While AT can be broken up into the rural fighters who believe they are fighting against the invaders US and the core ideological groups like Mulla Omar who want to re-establish the theocratic state. The TTP more or less is ideologically very coherent and hence more deadly.

 

[Ray]

Cast or name does not effect your religious obligations. Mr David can be far better Muslim than Muhammad Hussain. It is not important to change your cast from Rajput to something more islamic. In fact cast has nothing to do with Islam. It is your intentions that matters the most. Cast is just a way of identity we usually use in indian subcontinent, nothing to do with religion

Islam does not recognise caste. In Pakistan, it is still prevalent as some have not been able to shake of such prejudices and biases, even if they have converted. It is flaunted like a badge of superiority because man is but a creature of immense ego of the self.

Quite like those who use Sayyed in their names to prove that they are descendants of the Prophet. The term Sayyid is given to males accepted as descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad through his grandsons, Hasan ibn Ali and Husain ibn Ali, who were the sons of the prophet's daughter Fatima Zahra and son-in-law Ali ibn Abi Talib although some Sayyids took the title Sheikh. Daughters of male sayyids are given the titles Sayyida, Alawiyah, Syarifah, or Sharifah,

The issue is does that make them better Muslim than the others? I don't think so. Saddam and Musharraf also claimed such status; though to be fair to Musharraf, he claimed an indirect connection through his Mother's lineage.

Though Islam does not recognise caste, yet for marriage all these issues are considered, at least in Pakistan.

Here is something worth reading regarding caste in Pakistan:

Caste in Pakistan: The Elephant in the Room

 

[Zaki]

Islam does not recognise caste. In Pakistan, it is still prevalent as some have not been able to shake of such prejudices and biases, even if they have converted. It is flaunted like a badge of superiority because man is but a creature of immense ego of the self.

Quite like those who use Sayyed in their names to prove that they are descendants of the Prophet. The term Sayyid is given to males accepted as descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad through his grandsons, Hasan ibn Ali and Husain ibn Ali, who were the sons of the prophet's daughter Fatima Zahra and son-in-law Ali ibn Abi Talib although some Sayyids took the title Sheikh. Daughters of male sayyids are given the titles Sayyida, Alawiyah, Syarifah, or Sharifah,

The issue is does that make them better Muslim than the others? I don't think so. Saddam and Musharraf also claimed such status; though to be fair to Musharraf, he claimed an indirect connection through his Mother's lineage.

Though Islam does not recognise caste, yet for marriage all these issues are considered, at least in Pakistan.

Here is something worth reading regarding caste in Pakistan:

Caste in Pakistan: The Elephant in the Room

agreed, applies in India as well

 

[ejazr]

I haven't seen the caste system being invoked in marraiges in south India thata smuch though were the muslims tend to be mor educated on average. I personally of a syed who gave his daughter to a well off Dalit Muslim. He was also a prominent journalist though. The focus is more on economic well being which I guess is a natural requirement when someone wants to give their daughter in marriage.

But it might be more visible in the north but again most religious organisations would tend to discredite this. For example, when all this Khap Panchayat craze was going on on same gotra marraiges. A muslim khap panchayat in Haryana made a similar diktat to a person who was getting ready to marrry to a girl in his same gotra. However, the local Jamaat-Islami-Hind chapter and other organisations protested against this diktat and they even chalkedout a plan of doing a villlage to village visit in Haryan and Himachal Pradesh to inform muslims that same gotra marraiges are ok and to oppose them is against Islam.

 

[Ray]

@zaki,

India is the mother of the caste system and others are following it.

In the UK, while it is not caste, it was the guild system hereditary occupation (caste in India) and then is always the social difference of the common man with the prestige and social difference of the sang real i.e. royal blood and the nobles (those given the royal letters patent) and those of the upper crust even if not hereditary.

Differences are part of human society - a social machinery - that signatures the human psychology of wanting to lord over others, irrespective of capability. It could be by birth, by the power of money, by the power of subjugation of the mass through intimidation and criminal activities.

The Mafia, our criminals, and even those of honourable professional of power as bureaucrats and politicians are a social class by themselves.

Many acquire social awe and are treated as demi Gods without even holding offices of power or dispensation or doing anything worthwhile!