JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[shiphone]

Stop comparing jf17 with LCA , by design and technology jf17 is a 3rd generation aircraft ( 3rd gen by Western classification ) .

JF17 currently is the only fighter aircraft in the world which uses a stable aerodynamic design which is a 3rd generation feature.

All true 4th generation aircrafts currently in the world are RSS ( relaxed static stability ) or in simple terms unstable aerodynamic designs.

Without digital FBW the unstable aerodynamic aircrafts won't even take off.

While jf17 was flying around with analog flight control systems in block 1 & FBW in pitch axis only in block 2.

Incorporating FBW is JF17 block 3 is literally a waste of time , because the aerodynamic design of block 3 is same as that of block 1 & 2 ie a aerodynamic stable design . The reason why they incorporated the same is to save on ( SWaP - size , weight , power ) requirements . Reason why FBW was first seen on twin seater jf17b , additional pilot required they reduce on SWaP parameters , otherwise it would be too heavy.

FBW in jf17 ( stable aerodynamic design ) is not same as FBW in LCA , F16 , RAFALE , TYPHOON , GRIPEN etc ( unstable aerodynamic design ) . Only unstable aerodynamic designed aircrafts like LCA , F16 , GRIPEN , RAFALE , TYPHOON etc can utilise FBW for exceptional maneuverability , advance flight modes etc because FBW is inherently necessitated to automatically control the aircrafts ( without pilot input ) all the time in flight as the aircrafts are inherently aerodynamically unstable by design.

I have written 100 times about it yet some Indians as foolish as porkies , don't post crap here again.

Go and read this

LCA TEJAS and what makes it stand out

Some of the advanced fight modes being implemented or has been implemented to LCA digital quad redundant FBW flight control system 1. auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) In auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) mode, the flight control system (FCS) continuously monitors the pilot's manoeuvres and once it...

defenceforumindia.com

LOL.... have a study about the Mig-29 early varients, F-15A/B/C/D/E... are they using digital FBW, or even FBW? how about the maneuverability?

Without digital FBW the unstable aerodynamic aircrafts won't even take off.

and Su27 here..., is it using 'digital' FBW and aerodynamic unstable?

who is the fool is very obvious...

BTW, the JF-17 has the digital flight control from the very beginning...and the first flight of JF-17 took place under the stable status for insurance reasons. and then the status was adjusted to unstable...

 

[fire starter]

LOL.... have a study about the Mig-29 early varients, F-15A/B/C/D/E... are they using digital FBW? how about the maneuverability?



and Su27 here..., is it using 'digita'l FBW and aerodynamic unstable?

who is the fool is very obvious...

BTW, the JF-17 has the digital flight control from the very beginning...and the first flight of JF-17 took place under the stable status for insurance reasons. and then the status was adjusted to unstable...

Aircraft is made unstable by its design so how jf17 which is based on stable design can be made unstable. No matter you can add FBW in jf17 but it will not give exceptional performance.

 

[shiphone]

Aircraft is made unstable by its design so how jf17 which is based on stable design can be made unstable. No matter you can add FBW in jf17 but it will not give exceptional performance.

you may have a study about the F-16 prototype's test flight history(maybe JAS-39 as well) and try to understand how is called "relaxed static stability " and aerodynamic unstable.

 

[porky_kicker]

LOL.... have a study about the Mig-29 early varients, F-15A/B/C/D/E... are they using digital FBW? how about the maneuverability?


and Su27 here..., is it using 'digita'l FBW and aerodynamic unstable?

who is the fool is very obvious...

BTW, the JF-17 has the digital flight control from the very beginning...and the first flight of JF-17 took place under the stable status for insurance reasons. and then the status was adjusted to unstable...

View attachment 58931

LOL.... have a study about the Mig-29 early varients, F-15A/B/C/D/E... are they using digital FBW? how about the maneuverability?

When was Mig29/F15 first designed ? Mr.who is the fool is very obvious

Is Mig29/F15 a recent modern aircraft design ? Mr.who is the fool is very obvious

and Su27 here..., is it using 'digita'l FBW and aerodynamic unstable?

Yes it is , Mr.who is the fool is very obvious

Mr.who is the fool is very obvious , When I said " Without digital FBW the unstable aerodynamic aircrafts won't even take off " Isn't it obvious i meant it in the context of recent modern aircrafts. I ain't talking about aircrafts who first flew in the 70s and early 80s.

BTW, the JF-17 has the digital flight control from the very beginning...and the first flight of JF-17 took place under the stable status for insurance reasons. and then the status was adjusted to unstable

Jf17/FC1 first flew in 2003 with analog flight control systems ( The pic you posted is dated 2011 ) . And the english portion says " digital fly by wire FCS " while other countries say " FULL(Y) digital fly by wire FCS ".

Omission is the clever way to lie . After all Chinese are experts in lying and stealing.

Later Jf17 upgraded to hybrid flight control system with digital FBW in the pitch axis only.

Only recently Jf17b has full digital FBW which porkies kept shouting about as if aliens have landed on earth and Block 3 reportedly flew with full digital FBW.

As for switching digital flight control from stable status to unstable status while the aircraft aerodynamic design is same , go and tell that nonsense to the porkies they will appreciate you

Mr.who is the fool is very obvious , don't ever quote my post again and waste my time again . I have no time for fools especially porky and Chinese fools.

Ps : I will try to find the Chinese source where a senior Chinese engineer, I think chief designer can't remember , " literally " implied that jf17 was crap and asked the Argentinians to buy j10 instead

 

[shade]

JF-17 and that Khalid MBT are specially gimped export models for only the mumineens.
The Chinese don't use these models in their armed forces anyway.
And these ghulam -e- cheen think that they will get j-20 or j-31

 

[shiphone]

first.

Without digital FBW the unstable aerodynamic aircrafts won't even take off.

and Su27 here..., is it using 'digital' FBW and aerodynamic unstable? ...

are these so called 4th Gen fighters? mig29, F15,su27? how about the maneuverability?

-----------------------
when the fool can understand that so called ' relaxed static stability ' applied on which axial, you might be able to get to know what those words mean...

btw, the introduction article by deputy Chief designer and Chief designer of FCS of FC-1 project, which was published in Oct 2003.

 

[porky_kicker]

first.


and Su27 here..., is it using 'digital' FBW and aerodynamic unstable? ...

are these so called 4th Gen fighters? mig29, F15,su27? how about the maneuverability?

-----------------------
when the fool can understand that so called ' relaxed static stability ' applied on which axial, you might be able to get to know what those words mean...

btw, the introduction article by deputy Chief designer and Chief designer of FCS of FC-1 project, which was published in Oct 2003.

View attachment 58955View attachment 58956

Who are you calling a fool , 2nd time you have done it you piece of shit , watch your fucking mouth , this is not a Chinese forum . Get lost if can't behave.

And what's the point of asking the same questions again and again , when I have already clarified the same . If you are unable to understand English that is your problem .

As for manuverability , the ability differs based on the aerodynamic capability. Aerodynamically unstable aircrafts with FBW will have a easier implementation of manuverability , that doesn't mean conventional designs wont be manuverable. There is a reason why Mig29/F15 among other aerodynamic features have twin large vertical fins as it helps them achieve ( in combination with other aerodynamic features ) high AoA without losing controllability due to absence of FBW , etc etc.

Only an idiot would expect the same level of the manuverability offered by the sophisticated and refined high manueverability aerodynamic designs of twin engined aircrafts Mig29/F15 from a single engined jf17 with cut paste low end aerodynamic design.

Relaxed static stability means the aircraft is unstable in all three axes ie pitch, yaw and roll and that's it . I was talking about the above and am not bothering about anything else . Nobody is stopping you from posting information on whatever RSS you are talking about . Post it and we will see , otherwise keep quiet.

And what is point of posting Chinese posters which nobody can understand , don't post posters in Mandarin again without certified english translation from same source. It is disrespectful .

 

[WolfPack86]

Why PAF is confident that PL-15 will outflank Indian Rafale Jets

5 Rafale’s or 500, Pakistan is ‘Absolutely Ready’ For India was the official answer of Pakistan’s DG ISPR when asked about their country’s answer to the Indian procurement of the Dassault Rafale. Pakistani military analysts and former Pakistan Air Force pilots are pretty much convinced that Chinese made PL-15 BVRAAMs on JF-17 Block-III fighter jets gives them an absolute edge over the Indian Dassault Rafale fighter jet because of the so-called deadly combo of alleged 200 km range of the PL-15 with AESA Radar of the JF-17 Block-III. Off late Pakistani media with its panelist have been eager to dismiss the Rafale threat and have been boosting how capable JF-17 Block-III will be that it can take on IAF. Not many tactical arguments have been seen but the majority of the boosting has been coming from retired PAF Air Marshall Shahid Latif who was program director of the JF-17 fighter jet and was among the first pilot to ferry F-16 from the USA to Pakistan in the late ’80s. Remember it was Latif who proudly announced on February 27, 2019 “Today, same jets targeted and shot down Indian Jets which entered Pakistani Airspace,” he said this retaliation carried out by the Pakistani Air Force (PAF), a day after the Balakot strike on Twitter and later Pakistan military denied the claim that US-made F-16 jets were involved in the attack. “The aircraft which engaged those targets and fought them were JF-17,” stated then Pakistan Army spokesman – Major General Asif Ghafoor. Wreckage of self exploded AIM-C120-5 AMRAAM later burst PAF claims of exclusively using its JF-17 fighter jet against India but the lie continued even when 8 JF-17 which formed the second layer of attack aircraft behind F-16s was pinned down by Two Mirage-2000 that were in the vicinity clearly showing that even 40 years old Mirage-2000 can handle multiple JF-17s when it comes to confrontation let alone a single Dassault Rafale will be able to do better in similar engagement in future. PL-15 BVRAAM with a range of 150-200km on a JF-17 Block-III might seem deadly on the paper against a Dassault Rafale but we have little information on the framed Chinese missile in the open-source to confirm what kind of capabilities it can deliver. Since PL-15 uses a conventional dual-Pulse motor for its long-range capabilities many neutral analysts are convinced that actual range against a fighter jet sized target might be just over 100km. Chinese are not much upfront of the missiles NEZ (no-escape zone) which is far more important than the actual range of the missile. PAF will be counting on Quantity vs Quality in one to one engagement between JF-17s and Rafale if it ever takes place. JF-17 will fire upon Rafale if IAF pilots do not use the advantage of the first shot capability with their Meteor BVRAAM missile. PAF almost credited Mig-21Bis kill to the Chinese JF-17s and their SD-10 BVRAAMs recently but had to take a massive U-Turn after it was caught faking it but it has not stopped PAF from promoting JF-17s as the next big thing since most of the F-16 fleet procured in the early ’80s are reaching End of their Life Circle soon and recent crash and one shot down by India confirms that its aging fast with little or no further upgrades possible and tight control of second-hand F-16 Market means that PAF will have to make JF-17s its mainstream aircraft even though Chinese themselves have never brought them nor it has been runaway export success as predicted by PAF in past. Never the less JF-17 cannot be dismissed on face value nor the possibility of another Hussain who will boost how he shot down an imaginary Rafale with a PL-15.

Why PAF is confident that PL-15 will outflank Indian Rafale Jets – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Deathstar]

Never believe a product which Chinese export but never use themselves....

 

[Bleh]

Never believe a product which Chinese export but never use themselves....

But the J-10s they're actually using never managed any customers despite them trying... Don't know what to make of that.

 

[Shiv sagar]

Why PAF is confident that PL-15 will outflank Indian Rafale Jets

5 Rafale’s or 500, Pakistan is ‘Absolutely Ready’ For India was the official answer of Pakistan’s DG ISPR when asked about their country’s answer to the Indian procurement of the Dassault Rafale. Pakistani military analysts and former Pakistan Air Force pilots are pretty much convinced that Chinese made PL-15 BVRAAMs on JF-17 Block-III fighter jets gives them an absolute edge over the Indian Dassault Rafale fighter jet because of the so-called deadly combo of alleged 200 km range of the PL-15 with AESA Radar of the JF-17 Block-III. Off late Pakistani media with its panelist have been eager to dismiss the Rafale threat and have been boosting how capable JF-17 Block-III will be that it can take on IAF. Not many tactical arguments have been seen but the majority of the boosting has been coming from retired PAF Air Marshall Shahid Latif who was program director of the JF-17 fighter jet and was among the first pilot to ferry F-16 from the USA to Pakistan in the late ’80s. Remember it was Latif who proudly announced on February 27, 2019 “Today, same jets targeted and shot down Indian Jets which entered Pakistani Airspace,” he said this retaliation carried out by the Pakistani Air Force (PAF), a day after the Balakot strike on Twitter and later Pakistan military denied the claim that US-made F-16 jets were involved in the attack. “The aircraft which engaged those targets and fought them were JF-17,” stated then Pakistan Army spokesman – Major General Asif Ghafoor. Wreckage of self exploded AIM-C120-5 AMRAAM later burst PAF claims of exclusively using its JF-17 fighter jet against India but the lie continued even when 8 JF-17 which formed the second layer of attack aircraft behind F-16s was pinned down by Two Mirage-2000 that were in the vicinity clearly showing that even 40 years old Mirage-2000 can handle multiple JF-17s when it comes to confrontation let alone a single Dassault Rafale will be able to do better in similar engagement in future. PL-15 BVRAAM with a range of 150-200km on a JF-17 Block-III might seem deadly on the paper against a Dassault Rafale but we have little information on the framed Chinese missile in the open-source to confirm what kind of capabilities it can deliver. Since PL-15 uses a conventional dual-Pulse motor for its long-range capabilities many neutral analysts are convinced that actual range against a fighter jet sized target might be just over 100km. Chinese are not much upfront of the missiles NEZ (no-escape zone) which is far more important than the actual range of the missile. PAF will be counting on Quantity vs Quality in one to one engagement between JF-17s and Rafale if it ever takes place. JF-17 will fire upon Rafale if IAF pilots do not use the advantage of the first shot capability with their Meteor BVRAAM missile. PAF almost credited Mig-21Bis kill to the Chinese JF-17s and their SD-10 BVRAAMs recently but had to take a massive U-Turn after it was caught faking it but it has not stopped PAF from promoting JF-17s as the next big thing since most of the F-16 fleet procured in the early ’80s are reaching End of their Life Circle soon and recent crash and one shot down by India confirms that its aging fast with little or no further upgrades possible and tight control of second-hand F-16 Market means that PAF will have to make JF-17s its mainstream aircraft even though Chinese themselves have never brought them nor it has been runaway export success as predicted by PAF in past. Never the less JF-17 cannot be dismissed on face value nor the possibility of another Hussain who will boost how he shot down an imaginary Rafale with a PL-15.

Why PAF is confident that PL-15 will outflank Indian Rafale Jets – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Paf will not be even able to fly in their land except in hilly terrain once the S400 gets inducted, without getting painted by it. So jf17 vs Rafale scenario will not happen at all, paf will have to satisfy themselves in daydreaming " how we defeated 15 Rafale with just a jf17"

 

[Deathstar]

But the J-10s they're actually using never managed any customers despite them trying... Don't know what to make of that.

I dont think they tried to export J10s untill now atleast. J10s export version was revealed only last year i guess

 

[patriots]

Bdw the paf know s the capability of jf17...
Though they boast about it...the very much know about its limited capability...
In a recent news it was sais that paf is going to buy 30 j10c as their answer to our Rafale s.....
...
I had posted the link too....

J20 is better than Rafale....as pl15 is better than meteor
Paf will be handicapped ,after some years as they have limited options....as they neither have the budget nor indigenous products.
So they will be forced to buy chineese products

In years to come ..india will have s400
And paf will buy some hq9 systems
India is getting Rafale
And paf will buy j10
India will get Tejas mk1a
And paf will get blk 3

India will get mwf
They have no plan for it(they have no plan for their ageing f16s,and jf17 is not the right candidate to replace f16)
India will get amca
They will get fc31(fate of this program is not known)
India is getting mrsam
Paf is getting ly80

 

[patriots]

I dont think they tried to export J10s untill now atleast. J10s export version was revealed only last year i guess

J10 is costlier than jf17...
No wise country will buy a costlier chineese jet
Only small countries with limited budget will buy chineese equipment s...

 

[apoorv465]

This is what Nawaz Sharif ex-pm of Pakistan said about Tejas in contrast if Jf 17.

 

[Shiv sagar]

Bdw the paf know s the capability of jf17...
Though they boast about it...the very much know about its limited capability...
In a recent news it was sais that paf is going to buy 30 j10c as their answer to our Rafale s.....
...
I had posted the link too....

J20 is better than Rafale....as pl15 is better than meteor
Paf will be handicapped ,after some years as they have limited options....as they neither have the budget nor indigenous products.
So they will be forced to buy chineese products

In years to come ..india will have s400
And paf will buy some hq9 systems
India is getting Rafale
And paf will buy j10
India will get Tejas mk1a
And paf will get blk 3

India will get mwf
They have no plan for it(they have no plan for their ageing f16s,and jf17 is not the right candidate to replace f16)
India will get amca
They will get fc31(fate of this program is not known)
India is getting mrsam
Paf is getting ly80

J20 is not at all better than Rafale, it's not even semi stealth, it just looks like stealthy. It cannot even have a decent engine which can super cruise. The moment the afterburner gets switched on, any decent 4th gen fighter will get it's location. Then nobody knows what kind of avionics does this junk Chinese fighter has, being Chinese it will be of questionable quality.

 

[patriots]

J20 is not at all better than Rafale, it's not even semi stealth, it just looks like stealthy. It cannot even have a decent engine which can super cruise. The moment the afterburner gets switched on, any decent 4th gen fighter will get it's location. Then nobody knows what kind of avionics does this junk Chinese fighter has, being Chinese it will be of questionable quality.

I have said j20 better than Rafale ...in sarcastic manner

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[WolfPack86]

The Nigerian Air Force is reportedly buying upto 40 JF-17s along with BVR SD-10 missiles, unguided and guided precision bombs and targeting pods as well.

 

[patriots]

The Nigerian Air Force is reportedly buying upto 40 JF-17s along with BVR SD-10 missiles, unguided and guided precision bombs and targeting pods as well.

Seems fake news